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Match The ENGLAND thread

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Deuterz said:
Oh yeah I agree .. but I think even all that stuff aside there’s a tendency to act like the golden generation should’ve swept all aside. Even if we got everything right there were better teams then.

Right now I think the overall most talented (depth and XI) is definitely France. Having Mbappe, Olise, Dembele, Ekitike, Doue is nightmarish in transition. Spain have the best football identity and highest technical benchpoint and when Spain have that and a star forward or two they’re a monster. Argentina probably have the best team spirit/competitiveness.

I think within that England could have space to be the most adaptable/tactical team under Tuchel. Combined with easily being one of the most talented teams. The favourites will be Spain, France, England, Argentina & Portugal. I don’t think among that group anyone is massively ahead of anyone else.

Palmer is the key imo. Him in top form is a difference between us winning a tournament and losing it. Think he’s the most magical, light up a tournament player we have.
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Palmer is definitely a game changer in that he can pull things out of his arse from absolutely nowhere in a way Saka, Bowen, Foden and Rashford maybe can’t, he is our most mercurial player, a throw back to a Ginola, Waddle, Hoddle, Le Tissier type player but his injuries recently haven’t been great.

I still think Messi is probably still the most dangerous player in the world even now if you can just set up to put him in a role where he only has to create and has runners around him, if Argentina use him well they could still win it.

Spain maybe have the best first 11 but not invincible. France have the most depth but not always sure what they will bring, even the Netherlands ain’t bad at all. It’s very open which is excellent. You have to suspect fine margins.
 
Deuterz said:
Rooney is definitely in that conversation.

Probably Gerrard too. Beckham if we are talking England only performances.
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The ONLY 3 English players post 1960 to get anywhere near the elite / genius level IE Pele maradona... Were Greaves gazza and Rooney.. they never quite got there but they got close... EVERYBODY else... Gerrard Beckham Moore Charlton v v good but NOT genius level.. three I mentioned touched it.
 
I think England have as good a chance as any of winning the WC next summer, it's really hard to see any weaknesses.

I love what Tuchel is doing, not playing the 'best' names for the sake of it but building a proper team and creating genuine competition for places.

Kane remains England's most important player, it's not even close.
 
I do find it funny how its only England fans that complain about international breaks. I guess when you are almost guaranteed qualification its boring and you only really get up for it when the tournaments come around. Football tribalism plays a huge part too where fans tend to despise rival players and have their own biases about who they'd like to see playing for England.

If you are from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, these international breaks are far bigger as every game is huge and the idea of qualifying for a tournament is massive. Ireland haven't been to a world cup since 2002 and you saw the scenes yesterday when they qualified for just the play offs. I doubt too many of them are buzzing for the return of the premier league this weekend. They won't have a dopamine hit like that again all season!
 
Don Pedro said:
I do find it funny how its only England fans that complain about international breaks. I guess when you are almost guaranteed qualification its boring and you only really get up for it when the tournaments come around. Football tribalism plays a huge part too where fans tend to despise rival players and have their own biases about who they'd like to see playing for England.

If you are from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, these international breaks are far bigger as every game is huge and the idea of qualifying for a tournament is massive. Ireland haven't been to a world cup since 2002 and you saw the scenes yesterday when they qualified for just the play offs. I doubt too many of them are buzzing for the return of the premier league this weekend. They won't have a dopamine hit like that again all season!
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I like international breaks, England have been a better watch and have much more talented players than Spurs these days tbh.

Back under Poch when it was the reverse I wasn’t keen on it.
 
Tomo said:
Difficult to judge the ‘golden generation’ when they were so poorly managed. Tuchel might have a less talented first 11 overall but he is probably a better manager than all of what we have had since Hoddle or Venables. You can have prime Messi but if the manager if shit you will struggle.

In terms of of pure ability Rooney is the best 10 I have seen in the prem (he is more a 10 than Kane is even) and while I think Bellingham and Rice are really good, they are still a level below Gerrard and Scholes who where at their peak among the very best midfielders in the world. That won’t however stop us trying to win the WC if the team is better run and better organised.
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agree with all of the above.

One thing aboyt thst Golden lot, the bench was not good
 
White Van Jan said:
agree with all of the above.

One thing aboyt thst Golden lot, the bench was not good
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No actual wingers who could provide width and take a man on either. And whilst people might not be totally sold on Pickford, he’s a shitload better than calamity James.

Owen-Rooney sounds a great front 2 as well but didn’t really work that well together and were rarely both fit. It’s just a lot of names and square pegs in round holes.
 
Brian Fantana said:
I thought Bellingham looks like he’s lost a bit of bulk and he is better for it.

Some weird Beckham/rooney/dele vibes going on towards him from the papers. They always have to have a target.
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They’re pathetic. He was good against Albania, worked really hard and was noticeable throughout. Lacked a bit of creativity but he was easily one of our best players.

Consistently done very well for England and kept us from going out in the round of 16 at the Euros yet will weirdly catch strays.

It’s got very racisty vibes. They particularly seem to hate it when a young, black guy is perceived to have an ego.
 
Deuterz said:
They’re pathetic. He was good against Albania, worked really hard and was noticeable throughout. Lacked a bit of creativity but he was easily one of our best players.

Consistently done very well for England and kept us from going out in the round of 16 at the Euros yet will weirdly catch strays.

It’s got very racisty vibes. They particularly seem to hate it when a young, black guy is perceived to have an ego.
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No I don’t think it’s that hence mentioning Rooney and Beckham. It’s just that they are pricks.

I’ve criticised Bellingham loads for England because when I’ve seen him play live and on tv he’s looked lazy. However the player I saw in the last two games was none of that. He was very lively.
 
Brian Fantana said:
No I don’t think it’s that hence mentioning Rooney and Beckham. It’s just that they are pricks.

I’ve criticised Bellingham loads for England because when I’ve seen him play live and on tv he’s looked lazy. However the player I saw in the last two games was none of that. He was very lively.
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Maybe, we do have a tendency in this country to want to bring people down a peg or two.

I think Bellingham can be accused of lacking creativity as a 10 but never viewed him as lazy at all - he covers ground.
 
Deuterz said:
The golden generation stuff is well overblown. We are better relative to other nations now than we were then.

During the golden generation there were several uber talented national teams who were even better than us. The Brazil team that beat us at the WC was beyond stacked.

I think this is the mos talented English team relative to other national sides ever. There are a few other nations on the same level but none very clearly a big step above, imo.
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That Brazil side was arguably the best national team of all time - certainly in the modern era - 3 World Cup finals on the bounce winning 2 of them. The 2002 side was is possibly the most talented ever - Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Silva, Cafu, Carlos, Denilson.

And they did it at a time when England had a golden side, France had a great team led by Zidane, Italy had a great side with Totti, Del Piero, Pirlo, Maldini, Costacurta, Buffon. The Dutch had a great team as well - that period of football around 2000 to 2002 was incredible.
 
Don Pedro said:
I do find it funny how its only England fans that complain about international breaks. I guess when you are almost guaranteed qualification its boring and you only really get up for it when the tournaments come around. Football tribalism plays a huge part too where fans tend to despise rival players and have their own biases about who they'd like to see playing for England.

If you are from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, these international breaks are far bigger as every game is huge and the idea of qualifying for a tournament is massive. Ireland haven't been to a world cup since 2002 and you saw the scenes yesterday when they qualified for just the play offs. I doubt too many of them are buzzing for the return of the premier league this weekend. They won't have a dopamine hit like that again all season!
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The problem with these qualifiers is that too many teams now qualify and that is only going to keep getting bigger. 12 Euro qualifying groups meant England were never drawing a top nation and we won’t next time either. So then we have to go through 8 games where we win them all without conceding and no one really knows how good this England side is because we haven’t been tested.

The next Euros are even easier for us - we could finish bottom of qualifying and still make it as one of the 2 highest ranked home nations - which is almost a certainty.

Europe will move to the Swiss format soon - 1 big table with 8 random games, it will be more interesting.

The whole thing needs looking at though, 6 out of 10 South American sides now qualify with 7th getting play off place they will be big favourites for - what is the point of these qualifying games ?
 
Deuterz said:
They’re pathetic. He was good against Albania, worked really hard and was noticeable throughout. Lacked a bit of creativity but he was easily one of our best players.

Consistently done very well for England and kept us from going out in the round of 16 at the Euros yet will weirdly catch strays.

It’s got very racisty vibes. They particularly seem to hate it when a young, black guy is perceived to have an ego.
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Yeah I don’t get it either, he wasn’t perfect yesterday but the flack he is getting is ridiculous. I’d rather a player be annoyed for being subbed then just happily accepting it, it’s the right mentality, and it wasn’t exactly disrespectful.

Still think he is more of an 8 rather than a 10 though
 
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