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Transfers The Home Grown Dilemma

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He might actually count as home grown technically.

They need 3 seasons or 36 months prior to 21st birthday (or season they turn 21).

His birthday is 14th september according to wiki. He signed for us August 2021 and was loaned out for the season. This would still class him as affiliated to our club.

2021-22
2022-23
2023-24 Turns 21 this season so still counts
 
Spursidol said:
Thanks for the 'Cleaned up' version.

1 We have 16 non HG players now but 3 of the u21's (Sarr, Udogie and Veliz) will become non HG at start of 24/25

2 There are 8 HG player listed but there are two 3rd GK's listed (Austin and Whiteman) so there's really only 7 HG players listed of which I doubt if Sessegnon, Forster or Davies will be part of the squad at start of 24/25, so the HG numbers in 12 months time could well be :
Club Trained
Austin, Skipp (2)
Trained by other clubs affiliated to The FA or FAW
Maddison, Johnson (2)

Phillips will still count as an u21 (under PL definitions, not UEFA) so we could well find ourselves with 4 HG players and a maximum squad size down to 21 players aged 21 or over without signing at least one HG player (unless the likes of Forster, Davies, Spence are retained).

And long term we need to ensure there is a pathway to the first team for some of the Academy youngsters - Devine, Scarlett, Donley, Craig et al being in that age 19/20 when they might become involved in the first team
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Veliz will still be u21 and won't need to be registered.
 
Right as Rain said:
Does anyone know if Pape Sarr will eventually count as Homegrown?
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GGTH said:
Not for Europe, maybe for the PL.
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Yeah, Sarr can be HG for Prem because he will have been registered for us for 3 seasons before the end of the season he turns 21 (this season being his 3rd, was still registered with us when he was loaned to Metz)
*wasn't registered while on loan because he didn't have a visa.

Could never have been association or club-trained for UEFA even if we didn't loan him because the season had already started when we signed him so he would have missed the 3 seasons needed. UEFA counts from the first game to the last game of a season whereas Prem rules count from the end of the summer window to the end of the season
 
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Blanchflower said:
Yeah it's ridiculous

Add to this that the PL and Fifa have one way of determining injury time and Uefa another

Add to this that there are countries in Uefa (Turkey, Russia, probably soon Saudi) that have transfer windows that run beyond Uefa's deadline
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FIFA, as the governing body of world football, should set the rules and all other associations should have to follow them.
 
stevee said:
Anyone else think it's ridiculous that the FA and UEFA have different rules on this ?
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I’m still baffled as Dier who is English doesn’t count as home grown (I know he come through the system in Portugal) but Saliba does through a loophole. He didn’t play in England at all, they loaned him out after registering him in the squad.
 
JDM said:
I’m still baffled as Dier who is English doesn’t count as home grown (I know he come through the system in Portugal) but Saliba does through a loophole. He didn’t play in England at all, they loaned him out after registering him in the squad.
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Dier actually spent two seasons on loan from Sporting in Everton's academy too. Makes it even more baffling.
 
If Sarr is HG in PL next season (and if Saliba can become HG after 3 years of loans in France Premier League homegrown debuts 2022/23 then Sarr can despite what the rules appear to say including 'players can only be registered at one club' and 'a loan is a temporary transfer') then we are well set for PL next season with likely Maddison, Johnson and Sarr as HG in PL, with possibilities of Forster and/or Davies , plus of course Austin (3rd GK) and Skipp making up 7 of our minimum 8 HG players required to have a full 25 man squad in PL next season

The title of the thread possibly needs renaming to ''The Club Trained Player dilemma'' as its where we play in Europe where we have an issue with our current 2 Club Trained players being Skipp and Austin rather than a minimum 4 players for a UEFA squad.

The answer of course, since we cannot buy a Club Trained Player (unless we have sold them eg Dennis Cirkin) is Ange helping develop them with others helping arrange the loans to give them experience. I'm hoping Alfie Devine will be the first of those next 'Club Trained Players' for 2024/25 season.

We have a number of players who might catch Ange eye to develop, just need the development to happen !
 
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Thought I would do this quickly to give an idea of what we might need or how many spaces there could be. Hopefully not missed anyone. This is players with contracts that go beyond this summer so including players that we know will likely not be here next season. Hopefully useful...

2024/25 UEFA

List A:
Max squad size: 25
Max non-club trained players: 21
Max overseas players: 17

List B: (Players born after Jan 2003 that have been at club for 2 years or 3 years with a 1 year loan): Unlimited number

List A: Possible club trained (~4)
Skipp
Whiteman
Tanganga
Parrott
Robson
Austin

Notes: Austin's contract expires but rumours it could be extended. Possible buyback clause on Cirkin expiring early in summer. Rumoured links to a Walker-Peters return. Could see likes of Tanganga and Parrott being sold.

List A: Non-club trained, non-overseas (~4)
Forster
Davies
Sessegnon
Maddison
Johnson
Rodon
Spence
Phillips
Soonsup-Bell
Gray

Notes: Likely a few of these sold or loaned again. Phillips and Soonsup-Bell not been here long enough to be on list B but could be loaned out next season.

List A: Overseas (max 17)
Son
Hojbjerg
Lo Celso
Bentancur
Bissouma
Emerson Royal
Gil
Romero
Richarlison
Vicario
Solomon
Kulusevski
Porro
van de Ven
Veliz
Udogie
Dragusin
Sarr
Ndombele
Reguilon
Keeley
Bergvall
Werner

Notes: Likely a few of these sold or loaned again. Keeley, Veliz and Bergvall not been at club long enough for list B and bought from overseas clubs.

List B: (unlimited)
Devine
Scarlett
Donley
Dorrington
Santiago
Craig
Gunter
Moore
Hall
Olusesi
Black
Lankshear
John
etc.

Notes: Lankshear qualifies for List B on 31st August 2024. Soonsup-Bell qualifies for List B on 31st January 2025.
 
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Great post Football Chap Football Chap .

EPL classifies all players U21 if they are literally U21.
UEFA does not classify bought players as U21 until they have been at the club for 3 seasons.
So if we had been in Europe this season then Veliz and Dragusin would have been U21 for EPL but NHG for UEFA.
And next season in the unlikely event that Vuskovic returned to Spurs both he and Veliz would be classified as U21 for EPL games but would be included in the NHG list for UEFA games.

I will caveat all my posts in this thread as subject to scrutiny!
 
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Parrott being sold would leave us with: Skipp, Whiteman, Robson and Austin as our 4 club trained for UEFA. Glad the club have put a bit of emphasis on trying to sort this out long-term with the likes of Bergvall, Vuskovic, Gray on top of players like Moore from the academy. Should look a lot healthier in a few years.
 
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Football Chap said:
Parrott being sold would leave us with: Skipp, Whiteman, Robson and Austin as our 4 club trained for UEFA. Glad the club have put a bit of emphisis on trying to sort this out long-term with the likes of Bergvall, Vuskovic, Gray on top of players like Moore from the academy. Should look a lot healthier in a few years.
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To some extent, if Ange is prepared to give the club trained kids bench spots and sub appearances in Europa League, it's fine. We might be a bit tight if Skipp goes but it's not attractive being 24th choice.
 
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