Manager Thomas Frank

[Tomo]

If we needed one, this should be the nail in the coffin, yes. We did not play good overall, we had a twenty minutes spell where we saw what is the actual potential of this group of players. And was it even on Frank, or was it the players who took some pride and let go? Because what we saw was, at this time, a pleasant return to chaos-ball.

The way we are set up to play hinders us, and we are a lot less then the sum of it parts. Stop it.

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But we effectively have players like Xavi and Tel and Odobert who seem to look much better in a freedom Harry Redknapp style than the Frank system. But if we sack now who do we get, a temp manager doesn’t look great and might be hard, easier to sort out in the summer when we have a clearly direction and more options.

 

[SpursUpNorth]

Ridiculous to say anyone would allow a planned 3-on-1 counter to be open from a corner.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t on that one.

(Could be an interesting tactic going forward against the set-piece specialists teams).

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This applies both ways doesn't it? You think Emery would have kept three players there, if we pushed all but one up? Never going to happen.

We were chasing the game, and needed a goal to stay in the cup!

 

[HenryHotspurII]

The way we played 2nd half shows players did respond to Frank at half time. It isn't a game that screams sacking after to me.

If we lose to West Ham however...that would be truly toxic...

 

[SpursUpNorth]

But we effectively have players like Xavi and Tel and Odobert who seem to look much better in a freedom Harry Redknapp style than the Frank system. But if we sack now who do we get, a temp manager doesn’t look great and might be hard, easier to sort out in the summer when we have a clearly direction and more options.

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You must add the fact our current manager seems to have run out of gas.. I think no one is enjoying the ride now, and Thomas Frank the least

 

[Murphy]

Ange wanted and bought: Johnson, Solanke and Gray . So was his fault we don't have top class wingers

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It’s worth noting that Ange got 18 goals out of Johnson and Solanke was the top goal/assist contributor last year.

Absolutely right to bin him, but he got the most out of those players.

Gray was played mostly at CB because our shit board only gave Ange one senior player and we again had a CB crisis. That stifled his development.

 

[ChrissyWaddleShares]

This applies both ways doesn't it? You think Emery would have kept three players there, if we pushed all but one up? Never going to happen.

We were chasing the game, and needed a goal to stay in the cup!

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Absolutely - damned both ways. However, it wasn’t the last few minutes, but Villa getting another goal would have killed the match completely.

You can’t ’un-concede’ a goal, but you can score another. There’ll be another corner, another attack, another chance (there should be!) but you’ll need at least two more chances if you concede.

Apart from the most-most confident teams (and that doesn’t include City, Liverpool etc) every coach will put further players back if that happens. Emery took the risk, perhaps Frank should have called his bluff, but with our terrible forwards, there was still only about a 1-10000 chance we’d score so it was worth the risk by Villa.

Clever management. Hindsight says poor decision by Frank and the players, but the game would have really been over if they’d got another.

 

[Shadydan]

The way we played 2nd half shows players did respond to Frank at half time. It isn't a game that screams sacking after to me.

If we lose to West Ham however...that would be truly toxic...

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Can't really use that 2nd half as evidence of keeping him on, lets be real the players should have did that from minute one, they were playing for pride if anything, not for him!

 

[postbox]

The question remains though is will Frank learn any lessons from this.

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No, no he won't - it's not in his dna

Last night showed that for Frank to get the best out of them he basically has to give up on his style of play and take the breaks off.

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And this is why he's done

No manager can succeed while.going against their own principles, it just doesn't work

And he has shown now he just isn't adaptable in that way

 

[Tomo]

Can't really use that 2nd half as evidence of keeping him on, lets be real the players should have did that from minute one, they were playing for pride if anything, not for him!

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I don’t think that was the players suddenly waking up. It’s clear in the second half our attackers played with far more freedom, Xavi, Tel and Odobert interchanging. It was a change in tactics, we seemed to go from sit deep and hold position to let’s play football.

 

[postbox]

The way we played 2nd half shows players did respond to Frank at half time. It isn't a game that screams sacking after to me.

If we lose to West Ham however...that would be truly toxic...

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Did they respond to Frank? Or did they just go for it?

Is that how Frank WANTS to play or was it (as I suspect) a shit or bust tactic knowing his job was on the line and the crowd was turning? (One he undid with his subs)

This doesn't feel like evolution of Frank, rather desperation

I don't think he knows how to have a team really play that way full time

 

[ChrissyWaddleShares]

Can't really use that 2nd half as evidence of keeping him on, let’s be real the players should have did that from minute one, they were playing for pride if anything, not for him!

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Yeh - ‘cos we’ve never seen a Spurs team turn in a shocking performance in one half and then be better in the next?

All the way back to Poch we’d have one half good, one half bad (Poch, I think was first half good ‘?). With this calibre of players (one-level below the elite) they don’t have the skill to control the game less aggressively, so wear themselves out if they try too hard.

Possession-based coach and better technical players who can pass and also hold onto the ball would be nice. We don’t have those so half-an-hour of effort is the best we can expect right now, sadly, (it wasn’t chaos ball - it was nowhere bear the lunacy we got last season in the fist ten minutes before we conceded our first few goals down the right!).

 

[postbox]

With Poch we always started strong

If we scored the oppo had to open up and we'd score more

If we didn't score we ran out of ideas

And second half was invariably poorer and the opposition getting into the game grew

 

[ChrissyWaddleShares]

Did they respond to Frank? Or did they just go for it?

Is that how Frank WANTS to play or was it (as I suspect) a shit or bust tactic knowing his job was on the line and the crowd was turning? (One he undid with his subs)

This doesn't feel like evolution of Frank, rather desperation

I don't think he knows how to have a team really play that way full time

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Subs had to be made as they players were tiring and we’d already made an injury-sub in the first half.

It didn’t look like players not playing for Frank to me, but it did look like players realising they needed to work harder or their season was over.

It also made it clear that the squad building has been shocking as it relied on two veterans (Palhinha and Davies) to set the tone. Maybe VdV and Simons began to show their worth, too, as well as one or two youngsters stepping up when they shouldn’t have to be relied on.

It’s a squad without direction and wisdom.

 

[Kiwi Spur]

Did they respond to Frank? Or did they just go for it?

Is that how Frank WANTS to play or was it (as I suspect) a shit or bust tactic knowing his job was on the line and the crowd was turning? (One he undid with his subs)

This doesn't feel like evolution of Frank, rather desperation

I don't think he knows how to have a team really play that way full time

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I suspect that the senior on-field players had the biggest influence on the change of approach in the second half

Frank is stifling creativity and the senior players are very frustrated - hence the post match altercations in the last week.

 

[ChrissyWaddleShares]

I don’t think that was the players suddenly waking up. It’s clear in the second half our attackers played with far more freedom, Xavi, Tel and Odobert interchanging. It was a change in tactics, we seemed to go from sit deep and hold position to let’s play football.

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It’s happened in more than one game. It’s notable it’s also when Simons had started to develop confidence and - oddly - Davies has played instead of Spence.

This is clearly the direction Frank wants to go - whether he’ll be given time and returns from injury are kind to him, is another matter.

 

[postbox]

View: https://x.com/i/status/2010150655634149575

 

[spids]

I think Frank has coached them all season in secure principles. Do no lose the ball centrally. Play the way you’re facing. Play back and across and we’ll work the flanks, patience etc., and this has slowly killed all creativity and confidence in a bid to ensure close games and not concede cheap goals. Frank is on record as saying his ethos is to keep games tight and hopefully win 8 or 9 of them when things work out. It’s made us predictable and clunky, and is a midtable ethos. That run Simons did first half where he dropped all the way back into our back 3 and played a 1-2 with Palhinha, then slalomed thru their midfield to create the chance for Muani. That is exactly the type of play Frank hates. If he’d lost it early in that move they’d have had a 3 on 2 situation centrally in our half. But we need to take risks to create. It raises energy and gets the crowd engaged. Second half we played so much better as suddenly our attacking players remembered they could move the ball quickly and pass forwards. It remains that Frank is simply the wrong coach for our club, and always will be.

 

[Tyyy]

I was all for his appointment, but all he has done since day one is annoy the fuck out of me. Even down to his annoying face chomping on chewing gum.

He recently said he wasn't enjoying the job. Well we're not enjoying you, Thomas. I'd possibly find more enjoyment being wanked off by Freddy Krueger.

 

[ChrissyWaddleShares]

I suspect that the senior on-field players had the biggest influence on the change of approach in the second half

Frank is stifling creativity and the senior players are very frustrated - hence the post match altercations in the last week.

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They’re frustrated because they’re losing and because their own fans are shouting abuse at them.

We can’t take VdV’s outburst as being about Frank, without taking Romero’s comments about the ‘others who lie’. The players haven’t turned on Frank but the hierarchy.

 

[postbox]

It’s happened in more than one game. It’s notable it’s also when Simons had started to develop confidence and - oddly - Davies has played instead of Spence.

This is clearly the direction Frank wants to go - whether he’ll be given time and returns from injury are kind to him, is another matter.

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I don't think that's clear at all, to be honest

There is nothing about this team this season that suggests we even coach that kind of intent

Hardly any team selections support it

Or subs

I think in recent games he has gone more in that direction, and personally I think that's only because he knows he HAS to - to save his skin. It's not by his design imo as it's obvious we don't work on it