Management Thomas Frank

[manmountainbutters]

There is actually no reason why our league form should be that poor for prioritising a Cup that consists of only 6 matches. The Europa was much more. It could make the difference between say 4th & 7th not near the bottom. If we end up near the bottom it will not be because of the FACup. Ask Palace fans if they would swap winning the FACup for say 2/3 higher places in the PL.

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Exactly!

The Ange-in argument was always emotional. Because winning a proper trophy for the first time in 17 years as a fan IS emotional - see the parade.

No way was Ange likely to win the FA or the CC, still less the PL or the EL. The trajectory meant that most likely we'd finish bottom half, get mauled in the CL, and have no European football in 2026-27, and no silverware to show for it either.

 

[manmountainbutters]

Of course Palace fans wouldn't swap but you don't get that choice you either win something or you don't.
Fact remains fans want silverware, owners primarily want the highest league postion possible and as proven in the Everton versus PL case actually budget their spending on PL prize money that they expect to win.

Here is the relevant part from the Everton case , the business plan of owners is to finish as high in th PL as possible for the prize money, FA/League cups etc are not but a bonus if you win one , the aim of owners is high league position.

21. In October 2019 Everton produced a Sustainable Business Plan. The plan projected that the club would regularly finish in the top eight clubs of the Premier League, and that the new stadium would be constructed. It recognised the significant recent expenditure on players but projected both a reduced need to purchase new players coupled with revenue generated fromthe sale of existing players. This is what Mr Moshiri described as being the normal investment cycle.
Just to back up what owners want, this is from the Brighton financial report , zero mention of winning cups as it's cash that counts.

Looking ahead
Our long-term vision for the club, first outlined in 2019, remains the same: to be sustainable, for the men’s team to consistently be a top-ten Premier League club,

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But that's also why the "Ange will win us trophies, let's keep him" argument was emotional BS.

Great that he wont a trophy yes. But it was by some way the easiest one of the four we were in, and there was no indication he could get close to winning anything we are in this next season (we were solidly humped in the CC tbf, and not enough to gamble on), or likely would be in the season after that if we kept him.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Longer term; bobbling around the bottom half whilst swiping a domestic cup once in a rare moon will not satiate a fans appetite for seeing their team play well on a consistent basis.

As we learned this season; losing more often than not is miserable.......

Have you ever wondered why a lot of fans prefer the champo to an annual relagation battle?


Meanwhile you don't get to sustain regular silverware without the money that consistently high league finishes earns (*).



(*Unless you are a bent club with a given license to cheat like MC & CFC.)

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A rare good post from you - I jest.

Agree with this, but no way would/could I ever want to see us routinely challenging in the league below, or becoming a ping-pong club.

Last season, as you accurately observe, shone a beacons on the need to be competitive and not to be a walkover.

 

[yes]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQwgZjZisyE

This has likely already been posted. I enjoy watching videos from this guy. Gives an interesting perspective on what Frank will bring to us.

Tel - Solanke - Johnson
Kulusevski
Bergvall - Bentancur
Udogie - VDV - Romero - Porro
Vicario
​

This is the 'as it stands' line up he predicts Frank would go with (obviously not including any transfers we may or may not make) and goes over how he thinks players who struggled under Ange will thrive under Frank.

Kulusevski is an interesting one. Frank had his CAM drift out to the wing and allow his RW (Mbuemo) to come in centrally and score goals. Johnson might really explode and fulfil his potential under Frank.

Anyway, if you're looking for something to watch whilst you're taking a dump today, this video is a good watch.

 

[Muckleflugga]

Longer term; bobbling around the bottom half whilst swiping a domestic cup once in a rare moon will not satiate a fans appetite for seeing their team play well on a consistent basis.

As we learned this season; losing more often than not is miserable.......

Have you ever wondered why a lot of fans prefer the champo to an annual relagation battle?


Meanwhile you don't get to sustain regular silverware without the money that consistently high league finishes earns (*).



(*Unless you are a bent club with a given license to cheat like MC & CFC.)

Click to shrink...

Think somewhere along the various posts you have lost track of the original post. I said as long as Frank achieves high league finishes he is safe from getting the sack, winning a trophy if league form is poor doesn't save you.
I want high league finishes, preferably first place if not top four and CL qualification, if we get a cup run it's a bonus.

 

[Optimistic_Spur]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQwgZjZisyE

This has likely already been posted. I enjoy watching videos from this guy. Gives an interesting perspective on what Frank will bring to us.

Tel - Solanke - Johnson
Kulusevski
Bergvall - Bentancur
Udogie - VDV - Romero - Porro
Vicario
​

This is the 'as it stands' line up he predicts Frank would go with (obviously not including any transfers we may or may not make) and goes over how he thinks players who struggled under Ange will thrive under Frank.

Kulusevski is an interesting one. Frank had his CAM drift out to the wing and allow his RW (Mbuemo) to come in centrally and score goals. Johnson might really explode and fulfil his potential under Frank.

Anyway, if you're looking for something to watch whilst you're taking a dump today, this video is a good watch.

Click to shrink...

yes a good watch. I like how brentford used to play during there buildup phase to draw teams in then look to spring forwards with a longer pass, this could suit us well if we had say maddison and eze.
I have a feeling johnson may play on the left, we will have to see. I just think porro will be given more freedom to get forward for his deliveries similar to lewis potter and udogie maybe stay back alot more giving the left sided player (johnson to stay high as was shown during his forest days.

Plenty to look forward to.

 

[Richard Arlison]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQwgZjZisyE

This has likely already been posted. I enjoy watching videos from this guy. Gives an interesting perspective on what Frank will bring to us.

Tel - Solanke - Johnson
Kulusevski
Bergvall - Bentancur
Udogie - VDV - Romero - Porro
Vicario
​

This is the 'as it stands' line up he predicts Frank would go with (obviously not including any transfers we may or may not make) and goes over how he thinks players who struggled under Ange will thrive under Frank.

Kulusevski is an interesting one. Frank had his CAM drift out to the wing and allow his RW (Mbuemo) to come in centrally and score goals. Johnson might really explode and fulfil his potential under Frank.

Anyway, if you're looking for something to watch whilst you're taking a dump today, this video is a good watch.

Click to shrink...

Enjoyed the video

Not 100% sure I agree with him on Kulusevski as the 10. He played Damsgaard this season who is much more like Maddison and Kulusevski is one of the best at the inverted winger cross that he likes.

No ins or outs, I’m expecting this

Tel Solanke Kulusevski
Maddison
Bergvall Bentancur
Udogie VDV Romero Porro
Vicario

 

[Airfixx]

Think somewhere along the various posts you have lost track of the original post. I said as long as Frank achieves high league finishes he is safe from getting the sack, winning a trophy if league form is poor doesn't save you.
I want high league finishes, preferably first place if not top four and CL qualifiaction, if we get a cup run it's a bonus.

Click to shrink...

Not lost..... Just making a broader observation relating to something you said.

Cup runs aren't especially gratifying unless you win them...... Case in point this year's LC where we won games against City, United and Liverpool and still came away empty handed.


People got bored with fighting for top 4 each season (*) and around n' around we go.



(*myself included - which is why at the start of the season i was fixated with winning the EL - yet to your point; I hadn't factored the extremity of finishing 17th and thus once the dust had settled after the final I thought it still necessary for Ange to leave.)

 

[Bazali]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQwgZjZisyE

This has likely already been posted. I enjoy watching videos from this guy. Gives an interesting perspective on what Frank will bring to us.

Tel - Solanke - Johnson
Kulusevski
Bergvall - Bentancur
Udogie - VDV - Romero - Porro
Vicario
​

This is the 'as it stands' line up he predicts Frank would go with (obviously not including any transfers we may or may not make) and goes over how he thinks players who struggled under Ange will thrive under Frank.

Kulusevski is an interesting one. Frank had his CAM drift out to the wing and allow his RW (Mbuemo) to come in centrally and score goals. Johnson might really explode and fulfil his potential under Frank.

Anyway, if you're looking for something to watch whilst you're taking a dump today, this video is a good watch.

Click to shrink...

Testosterone as was interesting

 

[pleb]

Post moved to Clutter.

 

[JDefoe]

Yet you celebrated when we won the Euro trophy! (Or did you?)

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Of course I did that was one of the greatest nights of my life. The next morning with a pounding headache though I did a bit of reflection and realized that Thomas Frank gives us a better chance of success moving forward. That’s really all there is to it. I think Frank is smarter, more solid, and has more to him.

 

[Brian Fantana]

All that and so much more.

Who knows how it will pan out but it would have to be atrocious to be worse.

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I think people who dont go to games don’t know how bad it has actually been for us the last few years. Under Conte in the second season me and my mates would go to games and literally not want to leave the bar before matches. Remember when it was almost pointless watching the first halves because we’d always be behind at half time. Ange started off fine but after about march last year it just felt even worse. I think because there was hope involved and also at points it felt like we’d win matches but ultimately it proved fruitless and eventually felt worse than under Conte. I’d look around me and it would be just complete disinterest and eventually just acceptance of us losing again. I’m fairly sure I’ve never felt like that in nearly two decades of being a season ticket holder.

The fact you’d put so much time, money and emotional investment into something that just didn’t feel worth it was exhausting. The EL win obviously changed that but the exhilaration of that was extinguished in the Brighton game. TF needs to win the Burnley match first up to ride on the back of the trophy win. If he can do that who knows.

 

[pleb]

Post moved to Clutter.

 

[Airfixx]

Post moved to Clutter.

 

[Macch]

Enjoyed the video

Not 100% sure I agree with him on Kulusevski as the 10. He played Damsgaard this season who is much more like Maddison and Kulusevski is one of the best at the inverted winger cross that he likes.

No ins or outs, I’m expecting this

Tel Solanke Kulusevski
Maddison
Bergvall Bentancur
Udogie VDV Romero Porro
Vicario

Click to shrink...

He tapped Kulu in the #10 role because of all the running and pressing Damsgaard did. Maybe it's something we see vs. tougher competition, but like you i'd expect Maddison in there more times than not.

 

[spursmalc]

Of course Palace fans wouldn't swap but you don't get that choice you either win something or you don't.
Fact remains fans want silverware, owners primarily want the highest league postion possible and as proven in the Everton versus PL case actually budget their spending on PL prize money that they expect to win.

Here is the relevant part from the Everton case , the business plan of owners is to finish as high in th PL as possible for the prize money, FA/League cups etc are not but a bonus if you win one , the aim of owners is high league position.

21. In October 2019 Everton produced a Sustainable Business Plan. The plan projected that the club would regularly finish in the top eight clubs of the Premier League, and that the new stadium would be constructed. It recognised the significant recent expenditure on players but projected both a reduced need to purchase new players coupled with revenue generated fromthe sale of existing players. This is what Mr Moshiri described as being the normal investment cycle.
Just to back up what owners want, this is from the Brighton financial report , zero mention of winning cups as it's cash that counts.

Looking ahead
Our long-term vision for the club, first outlined in 2019, remains the same: to be sustainable, for the men’s team to consistently be a top-ten Premier League club,

Click to shrink...

You are still looking at it from the owners point of view and not the fans. last season was a bit of an exception but yes top 10 should be manageable every season but it is the pinnacle of a season to win something. Giving the F A cup a higher profile should not jeopardise that as only 6 matches.

 

[Matt1882]

Exactly!

The Ange-in argument was always emotional. Because winning a proper trophy for the first time in 17 years as a fan IS emotional - see the parade.

No way was Ange likely to win the FA or the CC, still less the PL or the EL. The trajectory meant that most likely meant we'd finish bottom half, get mauled in the CL, and have no European football in 2026-27, and no silverware to show for it either.

Click to shrink...

It just highlights yet another football cliché (like giving them time) that all successes are directly attributable to managers.
By that logic, Ranieri is possibly the greatest manager in the history of the game and not far behind him is Di Matteo and Luis Van Gaal. All won major trophies, who, if you go with consistent logic, are at least as good as Ange for doing so, if not considerably better considering it's the PL, CL and FA cups that lot won.

 

[Airfixx]

You are still looking at it from the owners point of view and not the fans. last season was a bit of an exception but yes top 10 should be manageable every season but it is the pinnacle of a season to win something. Giving the F A cup a higher profile should not jeopardise that as only 6 matches.

Click to shrink...

During a spell of 10 seasons; how many 8th-10th place finishes (without Europe too!) would you tolerate without a trophy before tiring of that mantra? ....How many league losses is tolerable?


Point being; you're still not guaranteed to win them even if you re-target your priorities to the dom. cups.

Last 10 years:

LCup Winners - Man C x 5, Man U x 2
FACup Winners - Man U x 2, Man C x CFC x 1

(In prior seasons they were dominated even more by those teams too...... and typically won whilst simultaneously challenging at the top of the table!)

 

[Muckleflugga]

You are still looking at it from the owners point of view and not the fans. last season was a bit of an exception but yes top 10 should be manageable every season but it is the pinnacle of a season to win something. Giving the F A cup a higher profile should not jeopardise that as only 6 matches.

Click to shrink...

Only looking at it from the owners point of view as it is they who decide the fate of the manager not the fans.

Here's the view of the not very sporty The Spectator the worlds oldest magazine and Platini tried to get CL qualification for winners of domestic cups, the clubs didn't want it.

Who cares about the FA Cup?

The FA Cup has become boring. An idea is that the winner could gain automatic qualification to the Champions League.

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[spursmalc]

Only looking at it from the owners point of view as it is they who decide the fate of the manager not the fans.

Here's the view of the not very sporty The Spectator the worlds oldest magazine and Platini tried to get CL qualification for winners of domestic cups, the clubs didn't want it.

Who cares about the FA Cup?

The FA Cup has become boring. An idea is that the winner could gain automatic qualification to the Champions League.

www.spectator.co.uk

Click to shrink...

Of course they didn't want it. they do not want the likes of Palace getting into the CL.