Manager Thomas Frank

[Murphy]

But we had that under Ange and it didn't work. There was no fear to go and attack, issue is we didn't know how to defend.

Any manager needs longer than 5 months. If we sacked him why would any manager like Iraola, Glasner or any self respecting manager come here if they're just seeing managers sacked for struggling to begin with, whilst missing 10 players?

Genuinely, I don't understand modern fans or how fans have evolved. It's like spoilt children whose toy has broken and instead of seeing if it can be fixed they throw it out and hope the next one works better. No patience or time given, just throwing tantrums and crying until they get their way.

Click to shrink...

Most of us knew this would be a challenge, but you want to see signs of progress.

Right now we aren’t seeing that.

Losing Ange was the right decision, but even with his wanton abandon playing, we wouldn’t have lost that 4-1 yesterday, nor would we have been so woefully outplayed.

To set up so defensively and be so shit is a disgrace.

 

[latman]

Fulham has no bearing. They're about as bad as we are. We could lose or win, it doesn't matter. Can we go on a run and get 3 wins on a row? Not a fucking chance. After the Fulham game, we have difficult games, again. We're going to be well in the bottom half come January, then February is even more difficult than it is now, and if he's still here, we're in real trouble.

We're also not going to get much in January should be stay, because the club aren't pumping £100m on a guy they think they might have to sack, and inflate the squad further with players the next coach won't want.

Click to shrink...

Fulham does have a bearing, a massive one.

If he sets us up to play more on the front foot and we win with a good performance it breeds confidence and we carry that on.

 

[Gatsby]

I agree but the manager has to still pick up a certain amount of points to afford him that time.

Frank isn't in any real danger yet but he has to sort the home form out quickly.

Because we can't rely on most of our points coming away from home, that's not sustainable over a full season.

Was Arteta finishing around 8th in his first few seasons?

Click to shrink...

8th
8th
5th
2nd
2nd
2nd

 

[Fattynomates]

To add to this,

You'd never expect a proper hoofball merchant to even entertain the idea of fooling around at the back the way we've been doing to no avail for example. In each goal kick would he;

• Position all his outfield players somewhere around the halfway line
• Tell his keeper to get it in the mixer by kicking it as hard as he can
• Try to recover the second ball in the ensuing chaos to kickstart an attack
• Rinse and repeat

Frank instead has been sitting there and watching this unfold where ;

• Vicario waits until the very last second to release the ball to a defender next to him, presumably to invite the press to the fullest
• The recipient, under heavy pressure, tries to thread the needle with a medium to long range pass towards the halfway line
• It gets intercepted since we don't really have an attacking outlet up front
• Rinse and repeat

Just one example to illustrate a more general point regarding Frank's indecisiveness and the totally disjointed end product that follows it.

He looks as much in pain as Nuno did due to being cajoled into implementing a style of play, high block possession based football to be more specific, that doesn't come natural to him. Looks like it doesn't come natural to these group of players either. Square pegs in round holes at its finest.

Well he's going to lose his job if this carries on, might as well go back to the basics to be a proper hoofball or counter attacking team to reap the rewards of those approaches at least. What we're watching right now is a nothing football.

Click to shrink...

Mad to think that Both Nuno and Frank both managed to beat Pep's City! They really must fucking hate us! I bet its the first games Pep looks for when the fixtures come out

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Drop them.

Make them fear the consequences of poor performances.

Just play the eager, hungry kids.

Not playing loses them appearance fees, risks international places and possibly sponsorships and what have you.

People in workplaces tend to work hard because they either have that integrity within themselves or they fear the repercussions. If option 1 doesn’t work or isn’t there, you have to enforce option 2.

Click to shrink...

So lets say for arguments sake that Frank drops Romero after yesterdays stinker (not that he was alone in having a mare) Do you think if we play Danso in our next game and get slapped up with a fit Romero on the bench that our fanbase isn't going to go nuts?

I think the wider point I'm trying to make is that the manager at Spurs is always on a hiding to nothing. The players know this, they are all far too comfortable and will down tools at the drop of a hat. The manager is always expendable.

Frank is already on shaky ground he starts dropping players he won't last until Christmas.

 

[CJJ]

I agree but the manager has to still pick up a certain amount of points to afford him that time.

Frank isn't in any real danger yet but he has to sort the home form out quickly.

Because we can't rely on most of our points coming away from home, that's not sustainable over a full season.

Was Arteta finishing around 8th in his first few seasons?

Click to shrink...

Yes, twice. Though it was Dec-May in the first one but they didn't get top 4 until his 4th season.

 

[Fattynomates]

Frank's not stupid and he has deserved his chance.

He is also not naive but with respect to Brentford we are Tottenham.

He needs to preside over better than what we are seeing even though yesterday and Wednesday were not the two matches to make that assessment in my opinion.

Click to shrink...

Lets see , Fulham at home should be a team where we look to attack and score goals, if he starts a midfield of Paul and Bents then I honestly think it will be the end of him.

 

[Murphy]

So lets say for arguments sake that Frank drops Romero after yesterdays stinker (not that he was alone in having a mare) Do you think if we play Danso in our next game and get slapped up with a fit Romero on the bench that our fanbase isn't going to go nuts?

I think the wider point I'm trying to make is that the manager at Spurs is always on a hiding to nothing. The players know this, they are all far too comfortable and will down tools at the drop of a hat. The manager is always expendable.

Frank is already on shaky ground he starts dropping players he won't last until Christmas.

Click to shrink...

If he keeps playing like this and losing he won’t last to Christmas. Stick or twist.

And to your larger point, yes. That’s why Conte was right.

 

[randombere]

I don’t get the point in sacking yet another manager and hoping the next will be the one, or if not just repeat the same cycle.

Arteta took 7 years and £1B of his own signings to get to where he is now. Others have done the same.

Constantly sacking managers because it’s a tough period is both stupid and naive. You either stick with a manager and give him the time to build something or you just become Watford and hope for the best.

Click to shrink...

I agree with time and investment but needs to be in the right manager and I just can’t see it with Frank.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Can't understand nuance..... Ironic much? What's happening is exactly what I said would happen, and it'll continue to get worse because he's completely out of his depth.

Beg to disagree RE sacking. Sacked Nuno when it was a really obvious mistake, Forest sacked Ange when it was a very obvious mistake. Both instances there off the top of my head were the right decision.

There's absolutely nothing good about this. He can't pick a team, his "tactics" are diabolical, he can't motivate the players, they look miserable. We're only where we are in the league through blind luck, after a very easy opening schedule.

Just giving him time, just because, while we capitulate, is stupid.

Click to shrink...

If you were a gooner you would have demanded Arteta get the sack after two seasons of 8th and a season of 5th wouldn't you?

I rest my case....

 

[Papafeels]

But we had that under Ange and it didn't work. There was no fear to go and attack, issue is we didn't know how to defend.

Any manager needs longer than 5 months. If we sacked him why would any manager like Iraola, Glasner or any self respecting manager come here if they're just seeing managers sacked for struggling to begin with, whilst missing 10 players?

Genuinely, I don't understand modern fans or how fans have evolved. It's like spoilt children whose toy has broken and instead of seeing if it can be fixed they throw it out and hope the next one works better. No patience or time given, just throwing tantrums and crying until they get their way.

Click to shrink...

You didn't read what I said. I said someone inbetween these two is what's needed. Going from silly attacking football, to silly afraid of your shadow football was a stupid decision by the club.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest things will improve. We should be much,uch lower in the league than we are. Just sheer blind luck has us where we are. Shared stats and trends all season so far to say this was coming, and now it's came, it's even worse than I thought it would be.

I genuinely don't understand fans whom are happy to be served up the worst standard of football I've ever seen, and have the audacity to call people that don't want a manager that makes watching us a chore.

Why should he get more time? What's he doing that suggests he should be given more time. Honestly, the mind baffles.

 

[Murphy]

Lets see , Fulham at home should be a team where we look to attack and score goals, if he starts a midfield of Paul and Bents then I honestly think it will be the end of him.

Click to shrink...

The crowd will be on his back immediately.

 

[CJJ]

But clubs like us can make it easier for ourselves by paying the going rate.

(I’m being hypocritical here btw, because I think the players are paid far too much. Wages are out of control and aren’t a motivating factor in increasing performance any more).

Click to shrink...

But the 'pay the going rate' argument is flipped 180 when it turns out we have an Ndombele or whoever on mega wages and not delivering.

I think people need to get more comfortable with the idea that it isn't a computer game where transfer fees and wages are form multipliers. The rate of failure for high wages and high transfers is very high, rather than meaning a higher success rate.

You hear it on podcasts where ex-pros explain that getting a massive salary over multiple years can push a player to just stop trying because they're sorted. Sterling, Sancho, Sanchez, Ozil.. lots of Chelsea signings and Man Utd signings.

 

[Papafeels]

Fulham does have a bearing, a massive one.

If he sets us up to play more on the front foot and we win with a good performance it breeds confidence and we carry that on.

Click to shrink...

And then in the next game, he sets up in his usual fashion, we get slapped, and we're back to square one. One win means nothing. We spanked Copenhagen and then comes the weekend, back to the usual crap.

It's done.

 

[Bazali]

The long setup for our FKs looked totally ridiculous. Pretending we have a set piece opportunity from a Vicario FK at the halfway line looked so pauperish- like we are seriously counting this as a major chance? Almost same situation for the Danso long balls- just made us look so desperate and weak to play that way. We aren’t fucking Stoke.

Click to shrink...

Stoke were good at it!

We’re not

 

[Don Pedro]

You defended Ange religiously for a year and a half after we were getting smacked up by every shitty team both home and away.

It's been what? 5/6 months and look at your posts directed at Frank ,It's continuously negative. Yes you've said you're not Frank out yet but the post above is absolutely ridiculous and you would have never ever said that in the Ange era as it's based on literally nothing. You would have laughed at the poster and said the fanbase is cooked.

Click to shrink...

Sticking with Ange ironically worked out in the end because he was the only manager stupid and brave enough to bin off the league in the hunt for a cup.

I'm in a similar position to shady where I was always happy to give Ange the second season as long as we were still in the hunt for a trophy because he kept saying he'd win one. He prob completely lucked out in the end and I'm not going to pretend Ange was a success, he ultimately failed. But sticking with him to get the trophy worked out.

Frank is a puppet. He's afraid of some of our players and he's petrified of our owners. He's been brought in to stabilise our league position and it's just so boring. There's nothing to cling onto atm. Yes Ange was chaos and his tactics were beyond naive. But he had the players running after every ball for him (usually running too much because they all got injured) and we always had a go. We always had the ball and tried to break down teams! We signed Kudus and Simons a year too late because they'd have been brilliant under Ange given how much ball we had in the final third!

So I can understand why people had more patience with Ange than they currently have under Frank. It was only this weekend 12 months ago that we went to the Etihad and beat City 4-0 with Dragusin and Davies starting at centre back! There was a feeling under Ange that we could beat anyone on a going day. High ceiling and low floor. What's Frank's ceiling? Parking the bus and playing counter attacking football against man city and psg in his first 3 games are his best performances so far! Our home performances have been a disgrace. Appreciate he has increased our floor as we can now defend set pieces.

 

[Papafeels]

If you were a gooner you would have demanded Arteta get the sack after two seasons of 8th and a season of 5th wouldn't you?

I rest my case....

Click to shrink...

Is Arteta that great? Not for my money he's not. He's just got a squad with two elite starting 11's and some of the best players in the world.

I'm not a Gooner though. So, irrelevant.

Anyway, enjoy your Frank ball. Rolling over to our biggest rivals and letting him have the easiest game of their season, and then thanking the coach for it. To do is to do and all that.

I rest my case....

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Can't understand nuance..... Ironic much? What's happening is exactly what I said would happen, and it'll continue to get worse because he's completely out of his depth.

Beg to disagree RE sacking. Sacked Nuno when it was a really obvious mistake, Forest sacked Ange when it was a very obvious mistake. Both instances there off the top of my head were the right decision.

There's absolutely nothing good about this. He can't pick a team, his "tactics" are diabolical, he can't motivate the players, they look miserable. We're only where we are in the league through blind luck, after a very easy opening schedule.

Just giving him time, just because, while we capitulate, is stupid.

Click to shrink...

Also I couldn't give a solitary fuck if the players look miserable after they couldn't even turn up and put in some fight in the North London Derby. Which is the bare minimum requirement.

Frank set us up not to lose the game yesterday but he didn't set us up with 5 at the back to stand off players and give them all the time in the world to get their heads up and play through us. Or for players to hang back in the penalty box and leave them all onside.

Fuck this group of players, they let you down every chance they get and always get defended by the likes of you who can't see past the bloke who stands on the sidelines and gives instructions.

 

[latman]

And then in the next game, he sets up in his usual fashion, we get slapped, and we're back to square one. One win means nothing. We spanked Copenhagen and then comes the weekend, back to the usual crap.

It's done.

Click to shrink...

He might adapt his approach more if we win playing on the front foot. That's what I'm saying.

 

[Fattynomates]

To set up so defensively and be so shit is a disgrace.

Click to shrink...

I don't get how we were so shit , maybe if we had some attacking threat and the plan was to play 3 at the back but give them something to think about when we have the ball then who knows, but to see us in the 20th minute at 0-0 wasting time and getting Vicario to walk up to the half way line for a free kick to launch the ball into the mixer and "hope for some chaos" was fucking embarrassing!!!!!
The other thing is when it went 3-1 they seemed shell shocked, had we turned up the pressure a bit there we could have got the 2nd and really gave them something to think about but we just gave up. Its like the players had already accepted defeat at 3-0