It's his job to motivate players. That's his job. If he can't do that, he's lost the dressing room.
I hate this current group of players, but they look a million times worse in this joke of a set up.
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Manager Thomas Frank
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I hate this current group of players, but they look a million times worse in this joke of a set up.
There were green shoots early on when Arteta took over, even in games where they lost against Chelsea and against us under Mourinho they were creating chances. In his disaster second season run of losses they were creating a high amount of chances and you could see they’d problem areas that needed to be addressed in their defence.
With Frank there’s nothing. There’s no green shoots, even in games where we’ve won comprehensively like Burnley, West Ham, Everton we’ve looked poor. We’ve been absolutely, comprehensively battered off the pitch by both Chelsea and Woolwich, not even a sniff in either game. Monaco deserved to batter us too, as did Bodo/Glimt, these teams aren’t as good as us.
So far we’re pinging balls up the channels trying to play like Brentford. That football doesn’t scale and we’ve seen nothing so far to suggest that it will. I keep seeing “we need better players” but unlike when Poch was here or Klopp was at Liverpool or Arteta what exactly do we need better players to do? What is Frank trying to do that better players will unlock?
I don’t think there’s anything to suggest that it will click. I think it’s as futile as if United kept Ten Hag or West Ham keeping Potter in the hopes it would magically come together.
You honestly think that a manager should need to motivate the players to play in a NLD?
And we can tell that after 5 months? Are we going to give every manager 5 months? How do you know a manager is the right one after that little time?
Each fan is entitled to their opinion, so I'm not going to tell you yours is wrong, but if we're just going to cut off a manager at 5 months we're not going to get anywhere.
Frank even did the double over Guardiola once. Hell he got 21 points from 12 games against "the big 6" that season. Amazing record.Mad to think that Both Nuno and Frank both managed to beat Pep's City! They really must fucking hate us! I bet its the first games Pep looks for when the fixtures come out
That is what convinces me that he is not even fully committed to his usual approach that was yielding him a lot of success in Brentford. We totally surrendered against Chelsea, Bournemouth, Bodo, Monaco and Woolwich in a way that his Brentford teams never did against any opposition as far as I know. We surely are not worse than Brentford squad wise?
One advantage he has over Nuno is that, thanks to last year's debacle, very few people would hold it against him if he went back to the basics to play to his strengths as a manager. Nuno was supposed to deliver both substance and style. Frank could get away with only the former, yet failing at even that right now.
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How are you supposed to be motivated when you're sent out to lose?You honestly think that a manager should need to motivate the players to play in a NLD?
So do we go through manager after manager until we find that one? I don't understand the approach to this.
We can go and get Iraola, Glasner even fucking Klopp but any manager is going to need time to get their vision across. We aren't signing 5 years into a project Frank or title winning Klopp, we'd be signing brand new to Tottenham manager with injuries galore, a fan base who hate the players, the owners and each other, and a club so fragile because of that.
But yep, lets keep sacking and hiring and hope the next one is it. That has worked so far, I'm sure it'll pay off soon, right?
But Poch used to get berated in the Media for never actually winning anything ,
5th
3rd
2nd
3rd
4th
14th
Add in the Champions league final as well, and that is without nearly half the backing that Arteta has had, we really did fuck up by not giving Poch the proper backing , not saying I want him back as things never really work a 2nd time but compare the football we played under Poch to the type that Arteta has the Scum playing, and its night and Day.
Maybe as a Fan base we are to spoilt but I'm willing to give managers time, I think we can't keep chopping and changing managers however I want to see us playing a certain way, Fulham match for me is key, if we set up just not to lose and hope for a Set piece goal then serious questions need to be asked on Frank.
No there weren't, don't re-write history. He was a laughing stock for three seasons including on here. The only reason he wasn't sacked is he won an FA cup with somebody elses team in his first season.
Then we could look at Alex Ferguson where I wager just about every Man Utd fan wanted him gone but he forged one of the greatest dynasties in English football history.
So were Forest right to get Rid of Ange after a handful of games?
What have you seen in Frank’s 19 games that makes you think that with a few choice signings we will be challenging in the top 4?
Or that with Deki and Madders back it will be different?
We keep hearing that had Ange been able to count on his first choice back 5 more that it would have been a different story, yet Frank has had a benefit of that and it’s awful.
If there were signs then I’d say yes, I agree, and we can’t keep chopping and changing. At some point you need consistency, but if something is woefully wrong - like with Nuno- then you have to act fast.
I’m not saying Frank has to go right now, but I’m not seeing anything that says yeah this is the guy.
At least with Poch we saw patterns and ideas. Frank is playing to not lose and we are losing anyway.
Utd sacking Ten Hag and West Ham sacking Potter has worked swimmingly for them hasn't it? They're much better right?
At the end of the day none of us are in charge of what happens. We can all wish for what we want, and hope our imaginations come true, but in reality we have no say or control over it. We argue between ourselves because we love the club, more than any manager or player will ever.
We just have to accept what the board do and hope that one day it pays off. So far it hasn't.. We either win a trophy and finish bottom half or finish top 4 and not win anything. There is no best of both worlds for us.
A fair point.
No.
Setting us out to lose would have been setting us out to try and go toe to toe with them. He set us up not to lose.
He did exactly what most people would have done, park a bus and hit try and hit them on a break or a set piece. And if it had worked he would have been hailed as a master tactician. The fact is though the players couldn't string three passes together in transition, got bullied off the ball all game long. We didn't defensivley press giving them time to play through us. While we ambled about the pitch like a bunch of toddlers with shit in their diapers.
It's very easy in hindsight to say we should have attacked because we got dicked regardless. But its just that, hindsight.
They certainly did not. They downed tools in the league and did what they wanted in the europa which in the end led us to winning it (because there was never the gung ho).
He's definitely lost the dressing room. It was obvious during the Chelsea game and its been obvious ever since.
Even the Copenhagen 4-0 win. That win had nothing to do with Frank. VDV ran the pitch to score a goal, Romero ran the pitch moments later to set up the 4th goal. The players themselves reverted to Ange tactics at home to Copenhagen. There is no way Frank gave VDV and Romero license to make them runs when down to 10 men! The players have totally given up on him.
He's completely lost the dressing room and I'm with the players on this one.
Even the Copenhagen 4-0 win. That win had nothing to do with Frank. VDV ran the pitch to score a goal, Romero ran the pitch moments later to set up the 4th goal. The players themselves reverted to Ange tactics at home to Copenhagen. There is no way Frank gave VDV and Romero license to make them runs when down to 10 men! The players have totally given up on him.
He's completely lost the dressing room and I'm with the players on this one.
I think the single most important thing is to have players,playing to their utmost ability, but yes, we need to be playing (especially at home), in a manner that seeks to win games. Cannot fear losing to the point where you constipate progressive football.
If that necessitates a bolder approach then Frank needs to see that and quickly.
I'm not sentimental. Once it gets past the point of no return, then there is no return.
He is not as yet near to where Amorim was,but even there you can see that 3 or 4 games undefeated is not enough,once the fambase are sceptical.
Saturday is so much more relevant to the stability that Frank needs than Wednesday.
The worry for me was that the approach from Frank yesterday was so basic.
It was just - put 5 at the back and park the bus. Nothing else.
No aggression or desire to get at Woolwich. Very passive. Zero idea how to progress the ball forward. No attacking outlet whatsoever. It just seemed borderline amateurish.
I actually watched the Sunderland - Woolwich game a few weeks ago and the contrast was huge between us and Sunderland. They had so much energy and aggression and caused them a lot of problems on the counter.
They had a sensible plan of "we know they are going to have most of the ball but we need to be in their faces and make it uncomfortable for them. Then when we do get the ball we need to give them something to think about."
Yesterday was just timid and completely unacceptable and ended in a heavy defeat.
It doesnt matter if you have inferior players - you have to (at the very least) find a way to make them work for the result.
It was just - put 5 at the back and park the bus. Nothing else.
No aggression or desire to get at Woolwich. Very passive. Zero idea how to progress the ball forward. No attacking outlet whatsoever. It just seemed borderline amateurish.
I actually watched the Sunderland - Woolwich game a few weeks ago and the contrast was huge between us and Sunderland. They had so much energy and aggression and caused them a lot of problems on the counter.
They had a sensible plan of "we know they are going to have most of the ball but we need to be in their faces and make it uncomfortable for them. Then when we do get the ball we need to give them something to think about."
Yesterday was just timid and completely unacceptable and ended in a heavy defeat.
It doesnt matter if you have inferior players - you have to (at the very least) find a way to make them work for the result.