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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?


  • Total voters
    623
I agree that we have to give Frank the season and let it play out. But I'd be very worried about backing him heavily in January like some are suggesting. I don't think Frank has shown that he is capable of coaching top attacking play yet so I'm not convinced signings like Savinho, Eze or MGW would have made a difference to where we are right now. I still think we'd have the exact same issues. Same as if we had Maddison, Kulusevski and Solanke fit.
How can you criticise his ability to coach top level attacking play and also not want to give him the tools to succeed while simultaneously saying we should give him the season? Makes no sense to me.

None of our attacking players walk into the squads of any of our so-called rivals. Deki, Madders, Solanke would be bench options for them at best. None of them would have even signed Tel, Odobert or Richy to begin with. He had better quality attacking players at Brentford in Wissa, Toney and Mbeumo.

We've signed dross for manager after manager and it's got to stop. Peak Fergie wouldn't make anything out this bunch of misfits.
 
I agree that we have to give Frank the season and let it play out. But I'd be very worried about backing him heavily in January like some are suggesting. I don't think Frank has shown that he is capable of coaching top attacking play yet so I'm not convinced signings like Savinho, Eze or MGW would have made a difference to where we are right now. I still think we'd have the exact same issues. Same as if we had Maddison, Kulusevski and Solanke fit. The problem is our setup and teams are very comfotable defending against our shape. We can't just be expecting Kudus, Eze or whoever to beat off 3 men to create space! We need overloads and Frank's system means we have none, always 6 or 7 players behind the ball at all times. Yes Richarlison and Johnson can't even beat 1 man but our system expects attackers to beat multiple men to create space. He never had this issue at Brentford because teams pushed up against them every week and he could always find ways to get Mbeumo or Wissa 1v1 or 2v2 through the middle.

I think Frank needs time to learn how to approach games as a big team and its going to be a very tough season waiting for him to learn this. But any ideas of a quick fix will just make things worse long term. Frank has to find a solution to get good players like Kudus, Simons and Muani working and getting the best out of players with huge potential like Odobert and Tel. He has to show something before we back him in January. Otherwise we could be digging another massive hole for ourselves.
The biggest problem is that he has given no sign at all that he has the capacity to learn this. If anything, we are regressing and his timidity is getting more pronounced. I do agree that there is no quick fix, and I’m not advocating that Frank be sacked. He should be given time, but I am increasingly concerned.
 
I don’t get it, managers here are on a hiding to nothing.

Players on the other hand, they can do fuck all every week and yet fans still suck them off. It’s never their fault. Always the managers.

How many managers do we need to go through before people realise we keep signing shit footballers?
Can't sack 30 footballers. Only Chavs can win with that model and we all know why they can.
 
Can't sack 30 footballers. Only Chavs can win with that model and we all know why they can.
Is sacking manager after manager, pretending the next one is going to make the difference, a solution?

I get that it probably feels like the easiest thing to do, but we should know by now that sacking the manager is just putting aside what the real problems at this club are.

Sack the manager today, and one of two things will happen: 1) We'll find a placeholder until the summer, appoint some new hyped manager (which any intelligent manager will stay away from this mess of a club if we are firing managers after 4 months), and then be right back in this same spot by this time next year give or take a few months. 2) We find a replacement immediately and are already looking for a new manager by the summer.

Our only hope is that most of this current mess is Levy's responsibility, and he is gone. So a slim chance that the new leadership structure will improve this club's terrible recruitment, medical history and general management, but I would not count on much improvement.

I think we've all been fooled by the promise that the new stadium and diversification of revenue would be used to make this a better footballing club. Footballing is no longer the sole means of revenue and in fact, it is the least stable (compared to concerts/events). I don't see the owners caring about anything until it impacts their earnings.
 
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Is sacking manager after manager, pretending the next one is going to make the difference, a solution?

I get that it probably feels like the easiest thing to do, but we should know by now that sacking the manager is just putting aside what the real problems at this club are.

Sack the manager today, and one of two things will happen: 1) We'll find a placeholder until the summer, appoint some new hyped manager (which any intelligent manager will stay away from this mess of a club if we are firing managers after 4 months), and then be right back in this same spot by this time next year give or take a few months. 2) We find a replacement immediately and are already looking for a new manager by the summer.

Our only hope is that most of this current mess is Levy's responsibility, and he is gone. So a slim chance that the new leadership structure will improve this club's terrible recruitment, medical history and general management, but I would not count on much improvement.

I think we've all been fooled by the promise that the new stadium and diversification of revenue would be used to make this a better footballing club. Footballing is no longer the sole means of revenue and in fact, it is the least stable (compared to concerts/events). I don't see the owners caring about anything until it impacts their earnings.
Holding on to the wrong manager isn't the solution either. Nothing is going to change under Frank. Alot of our problems are tactical; the midfield dropping to play deep in front of the defence, no through balls into an isolated attack, our only means of progressing up the pitch being putting balls into the channels and whipping crosses in. These are not caused by a lack of talent, the midfield is being instructed to be safe. This is exactly how his Brentford team setup and even if he had a fit Maddison he'd likely use him like he used Eriksen; playing deep and pinging balls into the channels. I see 0 evidence that he has a more progressive style in mind and is just hamstrung by a lack of time/quality.
 
I'm one that wanted ange out in Nov of his first season (because he wouldn't change stye when we had the players missing)
I wanted Neno out when I saw the team he picked for the first euro game think it was Aug or start of sept, (picked second 11 players who kept letting us down each time they played)
But I'm giving frank more time, when i look at what he has to pick from for CF (Tel, Richy, Johnson) what chance has he, I look at the possible forward line ( not including injuried players) and think whatever 4 you pick its like playing 2 men short
But he has to change something, becuase 433 is not working with this lot
 
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None of our attacking players walk into the squads of any of our so-called rivals. Deki, Madders, Solanke would be bench options for them at best. None of them would have even signed Tel, Odobert or Richy to begin with.
Not necessarily saying I disagree with the overall thrust of what you are saying, but IIRC by all accounts at the time, both woolwich and chelscum were trying to get Richarlison, and it was considered something of a coup that he choose us instead... (Furthermore, again IIRC, it was all about Richy and Jesus being available, and Spurs being able to choose between the two, with woolwich taking whichever of the two we didn't pick). I think the problem in that window was that there simply wasn't a top quality striker available, so we probably should have held out until the next window... but then the fans would have gone mad about us not signing us a striker so... 🤷‍♂️
 
think the problem in that window was that there simply wasn't a top quality striker available, so we probably should have held out until the next window... but then the fans would have gone mad about us not signing us a striker so... 🤷‍♂️

Well there was. But he went to Newcastle.

I do think any top quality pure CF knew they would be playing second fiddle to Harry Kane hence why we signed a player comfortable playing in off the wing rather than a pure CF.
 
Nothing will change with this ownership.

The best we can hope for is to replicate the Poch spell, which consisted of a world class striker coming through the academy, the best Asian player ever, a 19 year old wonderkid bought for 5 million, the most press resistant midfielder we’ve had in my lifetime, numerous other quality buys with few misses.

Good luck with that.

Suffering through match days isn’t worth it. All stress and anger, rarely a reward.
All stress and anger…….does football/Tottenham have that effect on you?
 
Micahel Carrick is out of work.

West Brom are sniffing.

They've had enough of Mason.

Get Carrick to Spurs and get Dawson and Defoe to help him.

Put the band back together.

Make it feel like Tottenham.
 
Stadium's half empty for Saturday. Cheapest seats £62.50.

Something's gonna give sooner or later.
Half empty is a bit of a stretch; there's actually just under 10,000 seats for sale on the Ticket Exchange, which of course will still look bad, but since most of those are ST holders trying to sell theirs, the club already has the money. Some will probably still turn up anyway if they can't sell them, so it may not end up as empty as it looks at the moment.
 
Over the years on here I've been accused at times of being a 'Levy lover' or an 'ENIC lover' or whatever other nonsense the idiots on here say, but whatever good things I may attribute to them, the one thing they've always been totally clueless at is recruiting managers. (Btw I don't necessarily think we've been any worse at recruiting players than your average other club, there will always be some hits and more misses). My issue is that we don't seem to take any notice of the potential manager's typical style of play, nor the make-up of the squad that the outgoing manager has assembled, so instead we lurch from one style to another (or indeed to no style at all sometimes...), with a squad that never fits, which is just unforgiveable at this level.

I do understand what I perceive to have been the thought process behind some of the appointments after Poch:
  • Mourinho - "Poch has taken us so far, but is not a proven winner, that's what we need to get over the line"
  • (Nuno - doesn't really count as he was a desperate last resort after failing to get many others)
  • Conte - "Mourinho was a winner but he wasn't tough enough, Conte is a tough winner"
  • Ange - "Conte turned out to be a coward who took no responsibility for anything and basically set light to the club on his way out, also both he and Mourinho played boring football, fuck these arrogant 'super managers', let's just get someone who will play attacking football"
  • Frank - "Ange was recklessly attacking, let's get someone more stable"
(Not my words above obviously, but how I expect the board looked at it).

...and on it goes. So personally whilst I was reasonably ok with Frank being appointed, was eager to see his alleged ability to adapt for (and indeed during) games to get the best out of the squad and focus on opposition shortcomings, and hence still hope he will turn a corner and start improving us, he is still yet another wild lurch from one style of manager to a completely different style of manager (when surely what we all really wanted in a new manager was Postecoglou's attacking intent but without the ludicrous naivety and with some, well, actual coaching... whoever that might have been...)
 
Well there was. But he went to Newcastle.

I do think any top quality pure CF knew they would be playing second fiddle to Harry Kane hence why we signed a player comfortable playing in off the wing rather than a pure CF.
Ah yes, Isak - but always a risk as he wasn't proven in the EPL, and as you say, was unlikely to play second fiddle to Kane anyway. Either way, for me it all points to the conclusion that we should have waited, or at least spent far less on a bit-part player, keeping our real powder dry for the next summer.
 
I think we'll spend in January. This board have to prove their worth and that they are not the problem they painted Levy to be (which he was).

It's up to them and Frank to make the most of it. It was never going to be quick and easy, it was always going to be painful. Some fans can't handle that. The first 10 games of Ange's reign really clouded a lot of people's idea of how a manager can make an immediate impact.

I agree. I think they have to try and make a big signing. However if we do we need to buy another left back too.

Sadly this is the case and it's harder to put right.

We've signed some utter shit or we have put too much emphasis on younger players who aren't ready to deliver and might never be. Johnson, Odobert, Tel etc.

This is all damage done by Levy. We know how he operated, if we had a list of targets, we would end up signing the players halfway down the list who offered a good financial deal, rather than the best player we could get.

Unfortunately, and it sounds crazy to say, but I think we've also fucked up with this summer window.

Simons may come good. But Kudus I have serious concerns about his end product. If he isn't able to get double figure goals then essentially we need to upgrade on him. You can't have wide forwards who don't contribute goals when you play with only one striker. It's why Semenyo would be a great signing but he'll end up at Liverpool.

Kudus stands out because our attack is so poor but I'm worried he's not going to elevate us.

Then you have to question Lange. He's building this squad and he's spent a lot of money and it still looks a mess.

He also appointed Frank, and pushed very strongly for the appointment.

But then you look at our squad and you think, despite the lack of quality, Frank should still be doing better than he is.

Solanke and Kulu aren't going to be game changers when they return they really won't. Our strikers barely touch the ball under Frank as it is, Solanke isn't Kane, he isn't going to make things happen from deep.

Kulu is a wildy inconsistent player who frustrates as much as he impresses.

Who exactly is Frank getting the best out of? He keeps dropping the young players liek Sarr and Lucas and Gray after they make good impressions, that can't be good for their confidence. Then they come on, stink the place out and well, of course, they have been drained of confidence.

I'm not seeing much improvement in any of the players under Frank so far, he's not maximising performances.

Yeah I don’t disagree with any of that. We really have fucked the squad badly and when the injured players come back I now don’t think they will sort it.

I agree that we have to give Frank the season and let it play out. But I'd be very worried about backing him heavily in January like some are suggesting. I don't think Frank has shown that he is capable of coaching top attacking play yet so I'm not convinced signings like Savinho, Eze or MGW would have made a difference to where we are right now. I still think we'd have the exact same issues. Same as if we had Maddison, Kulusevski and Solanke fit. The problem is our setup and teams are very comfotable defending against our shape. We can't just be expecting Kudus, Eze or whoever to beat off 3 men to create space! We need overloads and Frank's system means we have none, always 6 or 7 players behind the ball at all times. Yes Richarlison and Johnson can't even beat 1 man but our system expects attackers to beat multiple men to create space. He never had this issue at Brentford because teams pushed up against them every week and he could always find ways to get Mbeumo or Wissa 1v1 or 2v2 through the middle.

I think Frank needs time to learn how to approach games as a big team and its going to be a very tough season waiting for him to learn this. But any ideas of a quick fix will just make things worse long term. Frank has to find a solution to get good players like Kudus, Simons and Muani working and getting the best out of players with huge potential like Odobert and Tel. He has to show something before we back him in January. Otherwise we could be digging another massive hole for ourselves.

I think he’s going to have to hope that he is stuck by and that we make a lot of signings both in and out in 2026. Although they players aren’t top level we should still really be able to get decent prices for some of them should we move them on. Johnson, Tel, Odobert, Solanke, even Richy would still get decent fees. I worry about kulusevski and Maddison. Neither player may come back the same at all. We may need to cash in on them too somehow.
 
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