Manager Thomas Frank

[Deuterz]

I've seen a lot of people use this "Frank took over a team on a high" argument in the past couple days and I don't buy it.

Sure it's a fresh start, but it's still a squad that lost 22 league games last season and without Son, Solanke, Kulu and Maddison - almost all of the creativity and experience in the front line has been ripped out of the side, along with a huge share of the goals.

Plus, while obviously there will be a sense of unity and camaraderie following the Europa win, I don't buy that this would have a significant bearing on how we'd play this season, or that we'd come into the season on a huge high, regardless of who the manager was. We did well to win the EL but as a barometer of the team's quality it was far more akin to Birmingham winning a League Cup or Wigan winning the FA Cup than a brilliant team storming to victory. I don't recall those teams did too great after those wins because they were 'trophy winning teams'.

Frank's been shit, no doubt, but the idea that he took over a team with immaculate vibes and few injuries/issues is a massive exaggeration imo.

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The whole “oh they lost all those games due to focusing on Europe” argument is the funniest thing ever.

I’m sorry, a group of players on 80-100k a week + playing in the Premier League had to throw away league matches to navigate ties against Bodo Glimt (average wage lower than Wrexham) and AZ Alkmaar.

Frankfurt .. yeah, ok, a reasonable B tier European team. But we essentially had one knockout tie that it would be remotely acceptable to “throw” matches for.

It’s such a lame excuse. It in fact isn’t why we lost games, we lost them because we were worse than these premier league sides, we got bullied and out-competed and we’re seeing that same group of players lose lots now too.

I’m sure they did have great “vibes” in the Europa league. I’m sure they wish they could play Bodo or Copenhagen every week. It’s where they do all their best work, against players on a fraction of their wage.

 

[Timberwolf]

The whole “oh they lost all those games due to focusing on Europe” argument is the funniest thing ever.

I’m sorry, a group of players on 80-100k a week + playing in the Premier League had to throw away league matches to navigate ties against Bodo Glimt (average wage lower than Wrexham) and AZ Alkmaar.

Frankfurt .. yeah, ok, a reasonable B tier European team. But we essentially had one knockout tie that it would be remotely acceptable to “throw” matches for.

It’s such a lame excuse. It in fact isn’t why we lost games, we lost them because we were worse than these premier league sides, we got bullied and out-competed and we’re seeing that same group of players lose lots now too.

I’m sure they did have great “vibes” in the Europa league. I’m sure they wish they could play Bodo or Copenhagen every week. It’s where they do all their best work, against players on a fraction of their wage.

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Yeah - I think Ange did compromise on the line-ups a bit towards the end and played weakened/rotated teams a handful of times, but his entire shtick was that his teams always play to win, give 100%, etc. If that's your entire ethos, you can't just be like "sack it off this week, lads, these games don't matter". Any manager that starts sending that message is fucked and I don't believe for a second Ange actively gave up on the league. Plus we all saw how enraged he was at the fans even suggesting we were happy to lose a game that would literally hand our biggest rivals the title.

Think it's far more likely the players subconsciously downed tools - basically knew they had nothing to play for and lost a few % of extra energy and impetus once it became clear we couldn't get relegated. Better to focus their energy on the EL and stay fit for that. And if you lose that edge in the PL teams will feast on you - as we saw.

Tactically we were also a complete shambles in the league, though, even with our best team on the pitch last season. We had a handful of games where teams played into our hands and we did great and racked up the xG for the Ange-defenders to point at but beyond that we were utter wank and most teams simply picked us apart.

 

[Phomesy]

The whole “oh they lost all those games due to focusing on Europe” argument is the funniest thing ever.

I’m sorry, a group of players on 80-100k a week + playing in the Premier League had to throw away league matches to navigate ties against Bodo Glimt (average wage lower than Wrexham) and AZ Alkmaar.

Frankfurt .. yeah, ok, a reasonable B tier European team. But we essentially had one knockout tie that it would be remotely acceptable to “throw” matches for.

It’s such a lame excuse. It in fact isn’t why we lost games, we lost them because we were worse than these premier league sides, we got bullied and out-competed and we’re seeing that same group of players lose lots now too.

I’m sure they did have great “vibes” in the Europa league. I’m sure they wish they could play Bodo or Copenhagen every week. It’s where they do all their best work, against players on a fraction of their wage.

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Bodo played us off the park earlier this season. Just a few months after we'd beaten comprehensively over 2 legs.

Possibly not the best example you could have drawn on to make your point

But more importantly is there any evidence - any data whatsoever- you can provide to refute my thesis that Postecoglou was actually overachieving with this squad in his time at Spurs?

We are 13 games in. Any data at all you can point to that suggests I'm wrong and you were right?

Asking for a fanbase desperately looking for hope.

And please don't deflect by pretending I'm making a "pro Postecoglou" argument. I'm making a purely data empirical argument. We now have 13 games of data having replaced Postecoglou with a very decent contemporary in Thomas Frank

Where is the improvement? Is there ANYTHING you can point too?

Or was I right all along and the real problem is the squad? That ANY manager is doomed to failure by the entire process - including fan expectation and patience.

Derangers fighting the wrong battles at the wrong time is the very essence of Derangement. As I warned you the "next guy" is now getting the exact same sacky sack treatment you dished out to the last guy. The cycle will always cycle.

That and pissing on the greatest Spurs moment in 40 years. I cannot over-stress what a calamitous decision it was for you people to deny yourselves that moment. All because you wanted to win internet shitfights over a manager. Just so, so very very sad.

 

[Timberwolf]

That and pissing on the greatest Spurs moment in 40 years. I cannot over-stress what a calamitous decision it was for you people to deny yourselves that moment. All because you wanted to win internet shitfights over a manager. Just so, so very very sad.

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You keep sanctimoniously bringing this up as if we didn't all have the best fucking night and loved every minute. I don't give a fuck who we beat - we won a fucking trophy and it's one of the best moments of my Spurs-supporting life.

But equally, in the cold light of morning as adults some of us are capable of taking a step back and looking objectively at the quality of the opposition and what winning that trophy meant as a measure of where we are as a club. By talking about the teams we beat we're not taking away from the joy and glory of the win - we're just stating facts.

 

[Notabadsquad]

You keep sanctimoniously bringing this up as if we didn't all have the best fucking night and loved every minute. I don't give a fuck who we beat - we won a fucking trophy and it's one of the best moments of my Spurs-supporting life.

But equally, in the cold light of morning as adults some of us are capable of taking a step back and looking objectively at the quality of the opposition and what winning that trophy meant as a measure of where we are as a club. By talking about the teams we beat we're not taking away from the joy and glory of the win - we're just stating facts.

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100%.

 

[harry7]

Yeah - so many clowns on Youtube and Reddit pining for Ange and making comparisons.

Just cos Frank's been wank doesn't suddenly make Ange great again. He was 1 loss away from being unilaterally considered the worst Spurs manager in the modern era. He's a busted flush at this level and fans need to move the fuck on - I thought the Forest debacle would've finally shut them up but apparently not.

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C'mon. He took Spurs to 5th place in a season where they had lost Harry Kane, and had no fit CBs or strikers for most of the season and had only 3 full backs in the squad.

He wasn't backed in the summer. Given no new full back and with Royal so, was told to make do with Spence. No new CBs - and had to wait till Jan - when it was already too late. Journeyman Solanke was the 'big' signing. Still won Spurs first major trophy in decades - and stuck 2 fingers up to his critics.

We know that the problems at Spurs run a lot deeper than whomever the head coach is. The club is not set up for success.

 

[Juno]

If you thought Big Ange had it bad, poor old Juup Heynckes got fired twice after winning the European Cup, with Real Madrid in 1998 for sweaty armpits Camacho and with Bayern in 2013 for Pep.

 

[walter]

Hope you're sitting down when reading this because it will floor you.

Our entire team have played a league-low six through balls all season, as many as James Tarkowski has mustered on his own.

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If that's true, that's an horrific statistic, but it would go a great deal to explaining why we are so poor at creating anything going forward.

I like Frank as a person, and think we should give him a little more time, but I'm still not convinced he's a good fit for Spurs.

 

[Timberwolf]

C'mon. He took Spurs to 5th place in a season where they had lost Harry Kane, and had no fit CBs or strikers for most of the season and had only 3 full backs in the squad.

He wasn't backed in the summer. Given no new full back and with Royal so, was told to make do with Spence. No new CBs - and had to wait till Jan - when it was already too late. Journeyman Solanke was the 'big' signing. Still won Spurs first major trophy in decades - and stuck 2 fingers up to his critics.

We know that the problems at Spurs run a lot deeper than whomever the head coach is. The club is not set up for success.

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Yeah fair - I do think Levy and the board hung Ange out to dry and, taken as a whole (basically if you ignore the disastrous final 2 months) his first season was solid.

However, I also think, regardless of this, he proved himself to be overly set in his ways and, ultimately, got found out in the Prem.

I certainly don't think Ange's failings are all on him, Levy compounded the problem by buying him a bunch of kids when he needed proven players, but I also think he was reckless with how he used the squad (I'm convinced he's single handedly to blame for a number of our injury issues) and proved to be out of his depth and unable to adapt once other teams figured out his methods. Ultimately a very charismatic bloke with some great characteristics (not the complete disaster some make him out to be) who was too wedded to his own football ideology and too proud/unable to adapt to the challenges of the hardest league in the world.

We set him up to fail in his second season but he didn't help himself and, even with our best 11 fit we regularly looked completely out-thought by opposition managers once they got to grips with his system. I'm pretty confident he would've failed long term even if we had backed him.

 

[Stateside Spur]

Hope you're sitting down when reading this because it will floor you.

Our entire team have played a league-low six through balls all season, as many as James Tarkowski has mustered on his own.

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Truly shocking, but not unbelievable.

We almost never try to attack through the middle. It’s why we end up with the atrocious xG numbers.

 

[candrews]

Yeah - so many clowns on Youtube and Reddit pining for Ange and making comparisons.

Just cos Frank's been wank doesn't suddenly make Ange great again. He was 1 loss away from being unilaterally considered the worst Spurs manager in the modern era. He's a busted flush at this level and fans need to move the fuck on - I thought the Forest debacle would've finally shut them up but apparently not.

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Go support some other team. We don't need "supporters" like you at our beautiful club. Should be ashamed of yourself speaking about a club legend like you are.

Ange, considering his exit did wonders at this club. 5th place finish in the first season, securing CL football and a trophy in the second.

Seriously, only at Tottenham would we have muppets like you dampening some of our best periods in recent years. Have an evening off init. You can defend Frank without criticising Ange.

 

[Timberwolf]

Go support some other team. We don't need "supporters" like you at our beautiful club. Should be ashamed of yourself speaking about a club legend like you are.

Ange, considering his exit did wonders at this club. 5th place finish in the first season, securing CL football and a trophy in the second.

Seriously, only at Tottenham would we have muppets like you dampening some of our best periods in recent years. Have an evening off init. You can defend Frank without criticising Ange.

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Read my other posts - I gave a pretty fair assessment of Ange.

I'm just sick of people constantly harping on about him as if he keeping him would've fixed everything and he didn't have a ton of his own issues. As a fan-base we need to collectively move on from Ange, myself included. The endless comparisons between this season and last do us no favours at all.

And just because I have an opinion you don't agree with doesn't mean I'm a lesser fan or should support another club.

Kindly, feck off.

 

[Shadydan]

I wouldn’t want to go with you mate - it’s probably a declarable association.

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ok

 

[harry7]

Hope you're sitting down when reading this because it will floor you.

Our entire team have played a league-low six through balls all season, as many as James Tarkowski has mustered on his own.

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It really is mind-blowing. The attacking tactic is the slowly take the ball into the final 3rd, play it out to the wings and then cross it into a crowded box. Unfortunately, it's crowded with defenders, not attackers. Spurs do not commit players into the box - so it is usually 4 or 5 defenders vs 2 striker in the box.

It feels like Spurs are just waiting for a corner or throw in to commit players into attack.

 

[Furball man]

View: https://youtu.be/GFqglb5USmk?si=NNcpjhOnRyZmOzq9

“ The more you mess with Tottenham, the more it’ll mess with your mind . Talk to Frank “

 

[pleb]

Yeah - so many clowns on Youtube and Reddit pining for Ange and making comparisons.

Just cos Frank's been wank doesn't suddenly make Ange great again. He was 1 loss away from being unilaterally considered the worst Spurs manager in the modern era. He's a busted flush at this level and fans need to move the fuck on - I thought the Forest debacle would've finally shut them up but apparently not.

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Why dont you do the job then?
You seem to be the expert on Ange, advocating for him to piss off because he is a "busted flush" .
Now the replacement is apparently no good as well and has to go as well.
Send your resume in, you never know they might listen to you!

 

[Timberwolf]

Why dont you do the job then?
You seem to be the expert on Ange, advocating for him to piss off because he is a "busted flush" .
Now the replacement is apparently no good as well and has to go as well.
Send your resume in, you never know they might listen to you!

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Lol. Love it when people bring out the "why don't you play up front then" shite.

Read my other posts.

 

[Maureen]

Frank had no prior experience of managing a big club. He had never managed a team competing in Europe. He had won nothing. For these reasons, I was very dubious about his appointment. Bad as we were in the league, we'd just won a major European trophy. I just didn't see how Frank was an upgrade on the previous manager.

I was reassured by all the commentary here, and in commentary from proper footballing media contributors, that he was an excellent coach who would bring shape and stability where, under the previous manager, the consensus was that there was no proper coaching.

I'm afraid the Emperor has no clothes. From my, admittedly uneducated, perspective we are worse now than we were then.

We are stuck with Frank for now because there does not seem to be a decent alternative currently on the market. He is on borrowed time though. I just don't see anything about him to suggest he is up to the job.

I have never before felt so strongly about a manager so soon into his tenure, with the exception of Nuno.

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100% agree and echoes what I have said. I accepted Frank as it seemed he was a better coach than Ange and all and sundry says he would bring exactly what you described. What I don’t get and keep asking is how he was top of the list from 50 potential candidates. Said before what boxes did he tick that the others didn’t. And what boxes did the other tick which Frank didn’t. Surely someone like glasssner would have ticked more boxes? Won trophies, played in Europe, managed in two competitive leagues, from the same school as a bunch of other German cos he’s, is tactical and seems football savvy. How would they have arrived at Frank ahead of someone like him? I’d love to see the audit / analysis on the selection process. Look at what glassner has done with Wharton.

 

[Sidford]

Saw the Woolwich game against Chelsea and jaysus that's a proper derby. Reece James after the match was asked why there were so many yellow cards and why he thought another player would be sent off and his response was a smile and he said it's a derby.
As much as I hate Chelsea and all they stand for it's great that there are still teams and players out there who actually get what a derby means. Compare that attitude to our club, manager and players in the matches against Woolwich and Chelsea recently. Fucking awful indictment of what we have to watch and support.

 

[latman]

Go support some other team. We don't need "supporters" like you at our beautiful club. Should be ashamed of yourself speaking about a club legend like you are.

Ange, considering his exit did wonders at this club. 5th place finish in the first season, securing CL football and a trophy in the second.

Seriously, only at Tottenham would we have muppets like you dampening some of our best periods in recent years. Have an evening off init. You can defend Frank without criticising Ange.

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Yeah that's what I thought...true club legend when he cupped his ear to the away fans at Chelsea.

Fuck me