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Manager Thomas Frank
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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Conte had Kane. Ange did not have Kane. 5th in his first year was well above expectations!
It is 1 player, though.
A very special player, granted, but 1 player.
Also gained Madison when we'd been missing an attacking mid for years.
Think that game was after Kane came on and won a game against Villa. That was the start of Kanes rise under Poch.
There was fan pressure there to play Kane over Adebyeor IIRC.
You don't read posts or think along too much, do you
? I am not talking about no 10 that is expected to make a final pass. Ffs we need someone to get from 25 meters from our goal to get the ball TO THE #10 player. That is what is completely missing and not addressed. I have little doubts that Eze would have done more than Xavi (most even half -adequate players would) but we need someone with great ability to find channels and accurate passes from our own half to the attacking third.
You always say this without the appropriate context. I believe we were actually 4th when Conte left (?), but teams below us had games in hand, so if you judge it 'fairly', on points per game, or look at the league table once those games were played, it's more reflective of reality to say that we were 'doing 5th best' when Conte left. Your statement above may be true, but without the context it is misleading (just as it was the 999 other times you've said it).
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Last season:
13 matches, 20 points
18÷13 = 1.538
1.538×38 = 58.46
That worked out well didn't it?
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Also worth noting that Nuno was sacked being 9th in the league with 15 points after 10 matches.
So he had 3 less points but played 3 less matches than Frank to date.
15 ÷ 10 = 1.5 points per match.
1.5 x 38 = 57 so sacked Nuno has a better trajectory than Frank.
It's just a guide using form up to this point, we all know things can improve or deteriorate as the season progresses.
From memory there was a showdown after the stoke game. Kane, Mason and a couple of the others stood up to adebayor, Kaboul, Lennon etc. and Poch decided to stick with the youngsters. It’s what saw them and capoue leave the club asap afterwards. I think kaboul didn’t even play again for us.
The Villa game was when they could have been sacked by levy had they not won. But it was the stoke mutiny that was the actual turning point.
I’ll find it if it’s hidden away on there. It’s an interesting account. I remember it clearly at the time being correct.
52 is better than 38
Nuno was sacked because it was obvious the fans unanimously hated that he was even appointed, much less still there.
I'll never forget his last match - Man United. I remember it because I think both sets of fans wanted to lose more than win to get the manager at the time sacked.
Fair comment. It’s the ‘deteriorate’ bit that worries me given our current trajectory.
Which is why I'd snap your hand for 13th right about now.
Agree with your general point about Poch and expectations but the pedant in me feels like I have to pick you up on this.
Describing Spurs Back 5 as a "headless chicken defence" feels unfair because it's simply not backed by the numbers.
When that Back 5 returned to selection availability in March 25 they started together in 6 games (all Europa League) and only conceded 3 goals.
When that same Back 5 played at the start of the 24/25 season after 11 games they'd conceded 13 goals - the same as Chavs, City, and one more than Scum. So not great by any means but hardly a disaster.
Obviously between game week 12 and March 25 the back 5 wasn't available for selection and even when they were Romero and VDV only started together in the League as a partnership twice in 3 months despite being available (they were saved for EL obviously - where, as we can see by the numbers, they conceded only .5 gpg)
Frank took over a Spurs team whose single, outlier, strength was its defence.
Edit: obviously it didn't feel this way because of clown games like Brighton away where our strength clearly cost us the game.
Your'e comparing Europa League games there to Champions League and Premier League games, though.
There's a huge gulf in quality, with only Bodo/Glimt the comparison, where we didn't play Romero, VdV, or Udogie.
So.... that's very selective pendantry
Yeah that’s it. Publicly Poch said it was the Villa win that saved him job but privately and lesser known it was actually this.
Edit, here’s the bits from COYS. Bunged it in a spoiler as some might not be interested.
23/11/14
There was a confrontation after the Stoke game between Adebayor and Kane. Most of the team sided with Kane, but Kaboul and a couple of others didn't. Kaboul then went to see the manager to voice "the squads opinion" on Kane and his supporters. It was clear to MP that Adebayor, Lennon and Kaboul do not speak for the rest of the squad. The younger players are not happy with the way the three senior players have been behaving, training and playing.
MP bitterly disappointed with more than half a dozen of the squad who have decided the extra hard work they are being asked to do hasn't paid off, so they won't bother to do it. He wanted to give them time to buy into his plans, but they have chosen not to do so. Today's team selection is a reflection of this issue.
Adebayor and Lennon are refusing to accept a move. They've told MP that they don't care whether they play or not. If it comes to it, they'll stay at home, train with the reserves or sit on the bench, as long as they are collecting their wages.
Lennon only made the bench today because of the injuries to Townsend and Chadli.
Unsurprisingly it's proving most challenging to move many of our 'not wanted on the journey' players. The club expects/hopes Vlad will be sold, and Paulinho to go on loan, in January. Both to Italy. Currently, Inter are showing the most interest in Paulinho, but of course that could change over the next month.
24/11/14
Kaboul believed that the Ade 'faction' had the ascendency, if not in numbers then in influence, due to their seniority. He felt that the refusal to tow the seniority line by the younger players (led by Kane, Dier and Mason) came as a challenge to the established order in general, and to the authority of his captaincy in particular. That's why he made the decision (very much egged on by Ade) to go to Poch and complain, with the aim of presenting the 'Kane Mutiny' (sorry, couldn't resist. :smiley9: ) as being the root cause of the team's problems. Unexpectedly, for the Ade group, Poch supported the mutiny.
Lennon was caught up in supporting players (Ade and Kaboul) with whom he has built friendships over several years. Poch spoke to him on Friday, laying out what he expects from Lennon as a player and as a teammate, and (to his credit) Lennon seems to have responded very well. Poch does not see Lennon as a major issue, more as someone who did what they thought was the right thing (being loyal to a friend) but quickly realized it wasn't. As far as Poch is concerned, Lennon is not a man-management issue.
26/11/14
First time that DL has backed a manager against senior players. We're in terra incognita.
This has had a very positive impact on MP and the squad. Training has been much improved as those who weren't putting in the effort are now doing so, as they know they do not have support from anyone in the leadership hierarchy. MP has promised his players that if they give him 100%, the team will have success.
Since the events of last week Lennon has been working hard. He doesn't want to leave. He wants to prove he is worth keeping.
DL very bluntly told Adebayor that he's had enough of his negative influence, and if he doesn't support MPs vision then he'll be treated the same way as BAE. This has rattled Adebayor as he'd come to think of himself as untouchable.
MP is significantly impressed with the skills and the attitude of some of our U21 players and is looking for opportunities to move them into the first team squad, which would allow promotion of talented youth team players to the U21s. This plan depends on moving on some unwanted players in the January window. If we can't then he'd prefer they were playing regularly for the U21 and youth teams than being too far down the pecking order in the first team squad.
There was a confrontation after the Stoke game between Adebayor and Kane. Most of the team sided with Kane, but Kaboul and a couple of others didn't. Kaboul then went to see the manager to voice "the squads opinion" on Kane and his supporters. It was clear to MP that Adebayor, Lennon and Kaboul do not speak for the rest of the squad. The younger players are not happy with the way the three senior players have been behaving, training and playing.
MP bitterly disappointed with more than half a dozen of the squad who have decided the extra hard work they are being asked to do hasn't paid off, so they won't bother to do it. He wanted to give them time to buy into his plans, but they have chosen not to do so. Today's team selection is a reflection of this issue.
Adebayor and Lennon are refusing to accept a move. They've told MP that they don't care whether they play or not. If it comes to it, they'll stay at home, train with the reserves or sit on the bench, as long as they are collecting their wages.
Lennon only made the bench today because of the injuries to Townsend and Chadli.
Unsurprisingly it's proving most challenging to move many of our 'not wanted on the journey' players. The club expects/hopes Vlad will be sold, and Paulinho to go on loan, in January. Both to Italy. Currently, Inter are showing the most interest in Paulinho, but of course that could change over the next month.
24/11/14
Kaboul believed that the Ade 'faction' had the ascendency, if not in numbers then in influence, due to their seniority. He felt that the refusal to tow the seniority line by the younger players (led by Kane, Dier and Mason) came as a challenge to the established order in general, and to the authority of his captaincy in particular. That's why he made the decision (very much egged on by Ade) to go to Poch and complain, with the aim of presenting the 'Kane Mutiny' (sorry, couldn't resist. :smiley9: ) as being the root cause of the team's problems. Unexpectedly, for the Ade group, Poch supported the mutiny.
Lennon was caught up in supporting players (Ade and Kaboul) with whom he has built friendships over several years. Poch spoke to him on Friday, laying out what he expects from Lennon as a player and as a teammate, and (to his credit) Lennon seems to have responded very well. Poch does not see Lennon as a major issue, more as someone who did what they thought was the right thing (being loyal to a friend) but quickly realized it wasn't. As far as Poch is concerned, Lennon is not a man-management issue.
26/11/14
First time that DL has backed a manager against senior players. We're in terra incognita.
This has had a very positive impact on MP and the squad. Training has been much improved as those who weren't putting in the effort are now doing so, as they know they do not have support from anyone in the leadership hierarchy. MP has promised his players that if they give him 100%, the team will have success.
Since the events of last week Lennon has been working hard. He doesn't want to leave. He wants to prove he is worth keeping.
DL very bluntly told Adebayor that he's had enough of his negative influence, and if he doesn't support MPs vision then he'll be treated the same way as BAE. This has rattled Adebayor as he'd come to think of himself as untouchable.
MP is significantly impressed with the skills and the attitude of some of our U21 players and is looking for opportunities to move them into the first team squad, which would allow promotion of talented youth team players to the U21s. This plan depends on moving on some unwanted players in the January window. If we can't then he'd prefer they were playing regularly for the U21 and youth teams than being too far down the pecking order in the first team squad.
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MGW is more of an 8 with attacking intent than a 10 IMHO!You don't read posts or think along too much, do you
I am not talking about no 10 that is expected to make a final pass. Ffs we need someone to get from 25 meters from our goal to get the ball TO THE #10 player. That is what is completely missing and not addressed. I have little doubts that Eze would have done more than Xavi (most even half -adequate players would) but we need someone with great ability to find channels and accurate passes from our own half to the attacking third.
You don’t read posts or think along too much, do you
?