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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?


  • Total voters
    623
I did not want Frank, and I still don't want Frank. Because I like coaches with a clear proactive ethos, and Frank has always is a reactive pragmatist. Not everyone hates that, but it doesn't appeal to me. For me, however competent Frank is, he will always be limited by his pragmatism and reactivity.

This squad is fucking dogshit. It was dogshit for Ange, it's dogshit for Frank.

We have gone from an aggressively proactive risk taking ethos - which absolutely yielded attacking dividends, but came at the cost of defensive stability, to an arch pragmatic ethos which is actually starting to yield defensive dividends but at huge offensive cost.

This is clearly demonstrated in our XG performances:
We now have the 4th best XGA (25.50 - Ange 24/25 - 34.79) - But 16th XG (21.93 - Ange 24/25 - 40.78)

Our PPDA (passes per defensive action allowed has gone from 2nd to 8th). More reactive.

Other thoughts:
I think Frank rotates the squad better than Ange did, and his in game management is marginally better.

His starting tactics and format of 4231, even when we don't have an ACM available is piss poor IMO as we have no midfielders rounded or multi faceted enough to play a double pivot and no one other than Simons remotely capable of playing as a ACM, and he's struggling to adapt to the PL.

He's been far luckier and less hampered by injuries, particularly in defence than Ange was. Maddison is the biggest miss, but Ange lost him for big chunks too.


Do we stick on 15 or twist?

As much as I dislike Frank's approach (and as well as the offensive sacrifices, I also think it's taken him too long to improve the defensive performances, despite having first choice defenders available far more than Ange, and a designated defensive midfielder in Palhinha at his disposal - but this maybe was not helped by following an aggressively offensive risk taker) I'm tempted to say we might as well stick for the season, trust his pragmatism will cost less than swapping for a more proactive gamble mid season (with no time to work with 2 games a week for at least another month or two). Then see where we are at in May.

Personally, I'd move on in the summer anyway, his approach will always have limits.

I think that’s what’s likely going to happen, unless we are in clear and present danger of relegation. If that happens, we’d better hope whoever we give the rescue mission to succeeds (cue fat Sam gifs :frankfacepalm:).
 
images
 
Today vs Sunderland was marginally better from Frank- his starting lineup was more attacking than I expected. Losing Kudus early was extremely unfortunate.

I'd still rather have a coach who see the players differently than Frank does. I don't like Bergvall or Gray playing the 10 at all, nor do I like Frank playing Richy ST instead of LW, especially while we have RKM, who is slower than Richarlison, bigger, stronger and holds up the ball better. I just don't think Thomas views the players and the game in the best way, and at our next good opportunity, hope they can find someone else to bring in who does.
 
Players seem to be getting worse at the basics. What are we doing in training? Are we just doing set pieces? Fucking around for social content?
They just don't seem to buy in to Frank. That's the issue. They are humans.

The entire squad would probably be shook to know Ange was sacked just weeks after having the best part of their lives. They moved on, perhaps thinking Frank could guide them better in ways Ange couldn't. But when Frank was even worse, the players seem to just give up on him.

People said these players are not professional. But it takes a great deal to work, much less putting in high performances, under unmotivational circumstances.

People can say how poor Ange was, all based on his 17th finish. But one thing we couldn't deny was how inspirational he had been to the WHOLE squad. Honestly that was probably the most united the team had been. They perpetually win together lose together, no muted apologies, but even more aspired to do better next game.

They don't do all kinds of stuffs to isolate themselves to the fans. Players came on for those injured and just as impactful. Which was why I felt so happy for every single one of them to get the Europa medal, because like Ange said, each and everyone played a part and made that happened.

And then now Frank being so dull and boring in his personality and set up, selling away Brennan so soon without a replacement and now Kudus injured just seemed like the biggest fuck up the players themselves will ridicule amongst themselves.
 
They just don't seem to buy in to Frank. That's the issue. They are humans.

The entire squad would probably be shook to know Ange was sacked just weeks after having the best part of their lives. They moved on, perhaps thinking Frank could guide them better in ways Ange couldn't. But when Frank was even worse, the players seem to just give up on him.

People said these players are not professional. But it takes a great deal to work, much less putting in high performances, under unmotivational circumstances.

People can say how poor Ange was, all based on his 17th finish. But one thing we couldn't deny was how inspirational he had been to the WHOLE squad. Honestly that was probably the most united the team had been. They perpetually win together lose together, no muted apologies, but even more aspired to do better next game.

They don't do all kinds of stuffs to isolate themselves to the fans. Players came on for those injured and just as impactful. Which was why I felt so happy for every single one of them to get the Europa medal, because like Ange said, each and everyone played a part and made that happened.

And then now Frank being so dull and boring in his personality and set up, selling away Brennan so soon without a replacement and now Kudus injured just seemed like the biggest fuck up the players themselves will ridicule amongst themselves.

There did seem to be some confusion in the performance against Sunderland. There were moments where the whole team pressed the ball and put them under pressure - and this led to Spurs creating chances, including 3 or 4 times where Spurs should have scored on the break.

But it seemed that some players stopped pressing the ball entirely and sat off letting them have the ball (Gray, Odobert, Kolo, Tel), whilst others continued to press and fight for the ball (Porro, Bentancur, Richarlison). This seemed to cause Spurs to lose composure and Sunderland were able to take advantage as Spurs looked like a team not sure what the tactics were.

The subs made things worse, with Spence lacking to composure and discipline of Davies and Bergvall seemingly lost for what he was supposed to be doing and wondering around chasing the ball.

I'm not sure Spurs can go out and sign players better than what they already have. They just need to get them all on the same page, playing the same football. Are Spurs imposing their own style - or are they countering the opposition? You can't do both. And I am convinced the players are clear either way.
 
I did not want Frank, and I still don't want Frank. Because I like coaches with a clear proactive ethos, and Frank has always is a reactive pragmatist. Not everyone hates that, but it doesn't appeal to me. For me, however competent Frank is, he will always be limited by his pragmatism and reactivity.

This squad is fucking dogshit. It was dogshit for Ange, it's dogshit for Frank.

We have gone from an aggressively proactive risk taking ethos - which absolutely yielded attacking dividends, but came at the cost of defensive stability, to an arch pragmatic ethos which is actually starting to yield defensive dividends but at huge offensive cost.

This is clearly demonstrated in our XG performances:
We now have the 4th best XGA (25.50 - Ange 24/25 - 34.79) - But 16th XG (21.93 - Ange 24/25 - 40.78)

Our PPDA (passes per defensive action allowed has gone from 2nd to 8th). More reactive.

Other thoughts:
I think Frank rotates the squad better than Ange did, and his in game management is marginally better.

His starting tactics and format of 4231, even when we don't have an ACM available is piss poor IMO as we have no midfielders rounded or multi faceted enough to play a double pivot and no one other than Simons remotely capable of playing as a ACM, and he's struggling to adapt to the PL.

He's been far luckier and less hampered by injuries, particularly in defence than Ange was. Maddison is the biggest miss, but Ange lost him for big chunks too.


Do we stick on 15 or twist?

As much as I dislike Frank's approach (and as well as the offensive sacrifices, I also think it's taken him too long to improve the defensive performances, despite having first choice defenders available far more than Ange, and a designated defensive midfielder in Palhinha at his disposal - but this maybe was not helped by following an aggressively offensive risk taker) I'm tempted to say we might as well stick for the season, trust his pragmatism will cost less than swapping for a more proactive gamble mid season (with no time to work with 2 games a week for at least another month or two). Then see where we are at in May.

Personally, I'd move on in the summer anyway, his approach will always have limits.
The Franatics wont like this post.
 
It'll be the usual case of: pointing out we have shit players who have been playing shit for nearly 2 seasons now = 'obsessive defending frank'. Pointing out our best attacking players have been out all season is seen as 'defending frank

All of it seems to be some kind of "emperor's new clothes" style basis of ignoring how shit most of these players are, and the denial of that being "defending frank"

It's just absurdly toxic on here with people saying shitty things about the appearance of a guy, trolling other members for not getting pitchforks out.
I wouldn't say its about getting the Pitch forks out, its just posters were willing to give the players a free pass and blamed finishing 17th all on the last Gaffer are now using the players as an excuse for our shocking inept at trying to score goals from open play, and Frank setting us up as Set piece FC.

And before its mentioned, I agree Ange should have been sacked, finishing 17th even though he won us a trophy was not good enough, I also don't think Frank is showing anything at all to say he will be a success here, yesterday is a prime example, we actually end up trying to play football yesterday in the first half, I guess its like the EL final though where the players were just listening to VDV and Romero, as soon as Frank gets them in at half time its park the bus and try to protect the 1-0 lead.
This is not a players issue, this is a manager who is to scared, I actually think he is a nice guy its just the job is to big for him, still he will have his pick of clubs in the summer - Forest, Palace or West ham.
 
Let’s get rid of him and bring in Iraola and watch him have the same problems with this group of players. They’re shite. The manager might not be up to it but I’m one million percent sure these players aren’t either.

Well bring someone else in and watch them be as bad.

Yeah this



We had at least 2 chances to put this game to bed before Sunderland got back into the match

The break with Porro passing to Muani for example

And the one where Richy delayed the pass
 
It'll be the usual case of: pointing out we have shit players who have been playing shit for nearly 2 seasons now = 'obsessive defending frank'. Pointing out our best attacking players have been out all season is seen as 'defending frank

All of it seems to be some kind of "emperor's new clothes" style basis of ignoring how shit most of these players are, and the denial of that being "defending frank"

It's just absurdly toxic on here with people saying shitty things about the appearance of a guy, trolling other members for not getting pitchforks out.
Gordon Ramsey Idiot GIF
 
No fella, because the only reason you have this job, is because this level of performance is supposed to be an absolute aberration. You don't have the luxury of using it as a bar that you just need to barely clear.
Perfect post and sums it up better than I have tried to, I just don't get how Frank is getting a Free pass and its now the players when Ange had us looking the same with no VDV or Romero at this stage last season, I also think he would have been chomping at the bit to get Xavi , RKM and Kudus - any way i'm not trying to make excuses for Ange, the league form was shocking and he paid the price, but last season was the exception , the season before we finished 5th yet we are all now having to lower our expectations , its fucking absurd!!!!
 
Frank hasn’t done miracles but before shouting about a new manager think about this:

How many of our starting 11 tonight fit into that Sunderland squad?
Our mids? Nope, maybe Gray cause he’s young.
Striker? Nope.
Forwards? Maybe.
Back 4? VDV probably, I wouldn’t pick Romero over anyone, Porro probably.
Keeper? Nope.

That’s compared to a newly promoted club. That’s the quality that we have on the field.
A new manager will inherit an absolutely dreadful squad and nothing will change unless we get a whole oil change of a squad. I’m not 100% sold on Frank and I’m losing heart but my God he has slim pickings to work with.
They have 6 players out at Afcon, are we really wanting to go there?
 
I did not want Frank, and I still don't want Frank. Because I like coaches with a clear proactive ethos, and Frank has always is a reactive pragmatist. Not everyone hates that, but it doesn't appeal to me. For me, however competent Frank is, he will always be limited by his pragmatism and reactivity.

This squad is fucking dogshit. It was dogshit for Ange, it's dogshit for Frank.

We have gone from an aggressively proactive risk taking ethos - which absolutely yielded attacking dividends, but came at the cost of defensive stability, to an arch pragmatic ethos which is actually starting to yield defensive dividends but at huge offensive cost.

This is clearly demonstrated in our XG performances:
We now have the 4th best XGA (25.50 - Ange 24/25 - 34.79) - But 16th XG (21.93 - Ange 24/25 - 40.78)

Our PPDA (passes per defensive action allowed has gone from 2nd to 8th). More reactive.

Other thoughts:
I think Frank rotates the squad better than Ange did, and his in game management is marginally better.

His starting tactics and format of 4231, even when we don't have an ACM available is piss poor IMO as we have no midfielders rounded or multi faceted enough to play a double pivot and no one other than Simons remotely capable of playing as a ACM, and he's struggling to adapt to the PL.

He's been far luckier and less hampered by injuries, particularly in defence than Ange was. Maddison is the biggest miss, but Ange lost him for big chunks too.


Do we stick on 15 or twist?

As much as I dislike Frank's approach (and as well as the offensive sacrifices, I also think it's taken him too long to improve the defensive performances, despite having first choice defenders available far more than Ange, and a designated defensive midfielder in Palhinha at his disposal - but this maybe was not helped by following an aggressively offensive risk taker) I'm tempted to say we might as well stick for the season, trust his pragmatism will cost less than swapping for a more proactive gamble mid season (with no time to work with 2 games a week for at least another month or two). Then see where we are at in May.

Personally, I'd move on in the summer anyway, his approach will always have limits.
The only thing that’s stopping me wanting him out right now, is the lack of available.
candidates.

He’s the wrong guy and it’s another wasted season.
 
Not sure if this is satire but none of these players are close to maradona. VdV still looks great under Frank. The rest are unproven or a head case like Romero.

He certainly doesn’t have players over performing though .
I’m holding Romero accountable for Sunderland’s goal. I watched the replay a few times and he went missing on the Brobby one-two, did not follow the player. He’s a head case with poor concentration.
Moments of brilliance like reading the game well and anticipation won us a turnover high up the pitch yesterday but we can’t have the poor defensive lapses from him that occurs too often. I don’t think the captaincy has elevated his game, if anything I think he’s gone backwards.
 
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