The players have a lot of power at madrid.
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Manager Thomas Frank
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The players have a lot of power at madrid.
Yep. At least with ange we had some good moments going forward plus that first 10 games in his first season was excellent. Pity it fell apart.
Based on what? On the eye test, we look lucky not to be 3 or 4 down by half time in most games, and metrics like the xG table suggest that we are roughly where we deserve to be based on the football we've played. On top of that, when you consider that two of our wins were the first two games of the season, clearly we have gotten worse not better as the season has gone on, and we're in freefall now.
Not necessarily disagreeing with the rest of your post, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but our performances under Frank have not deserved anything better than flirting with bottom 6. So if you mean our performances, yes they have been as bad as our league position suggests. If you mean 'is our squad really bottom 6 in the PL', then no, of course not. In which case it's primarily on Frank, sadly (as obviously he's a really nice bloke).
I think the one thing I've learned from the past few years of Spurs is we really need to stop hoping managers will magically change and revamp their entire football style and philosophy to meet the demands of a different club.
Danny Kelly made a really good point the other day that, it's not always so much whether managers are bad or good...it's whether they're right.
Managers, more often that not, are what they are. What they've done in the past is what they're probably going to keep doing. They might be able to make tactical tweaks and adapt over time, but they don't simply become something different overnight if you give them more money and better players.
We had years of evidence of Frank's style, and Nuno's before him, yet we chose to believe they could change and do something different. Sure they both had about 1 year of vaguely attacking football years before but both were predominantly direct, pragmatic managers. Lo and behold, both turned out to be exactly what we should've expected. In fact Frank's been worse - he's actually regressed, resorting to his worst, most negative, survivalist tendencies at Brentford to grind out ugly results. I suspect if we gave him time he'd eventually improve us but only to the standard of a gilded Brentford, who scored plenty of goals but largely through set-pieces and breaks.
The reason Poch worked was because he was already playing progressive, high-pressing innovative football that naturally scaled up. It's also why a coach like Kompany did shit at Burnley in the PL but succeeded at Bayern. The things he was doing at Burnley weren't bad, but he was simply the wrong guy for a dodgy Burnley team that needed to grind out results in a highly competitive league. That style of play and mentality, however, was perfect for a club like Bayern.
We need to accept managers at face value and stop hoping they'll become something they're not.
He will always have Bilbao , Frank has nothing.
Sorry - yeah I meant our squad isn't as bad as our results have been. We have a very unbalanced and fragile squad which is midtable but not nearly as poor as what we've produced. So yep that's on Frank.
Having said that we are cursed by injury. Not as horrendous as last year but not far off it (there's nothing worse than having your first choice defence out - just look at Oil slavers right now) - so Frank has mitigating circumstances in that regard. I think that's my point - he's not my cup of tea but he IS a competent manager. the fact it's got so dire reflects more on the club as a whole than on him. I said this with Postecoglou and Conte as well. And things have only got worse.
So that's why I feel sorry for him. It was always going to end this way. Hence my Avatar sig - and my anger with the bullies and abusers who claimed everything was the last manager's fault. It wasn't. And still isn't. Frank is a problem but not the problem. Imo.
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Yeah I'm sick of Frank and his xg numbers. Doesn't matter how shit the players you coach them how to create chances. If they're too shit to finish those chances off or play the right balls then fair enough but at least the coach is doing the job of creating a cohesive attacking approach, same for defense too.
Does anyone know Frank's footballing philosophy at Tottenham still? Apart from long throws or pass to Kudus
Time to go, hopefully I wake up to good news on that regard tomorrow
Conte and JM were the cases of a manager not getting fully embraced by the fans, even when results were acceptable or even flat out good, because of their style of play that was thought to clash with what this club has historically stood for [The Spurs Way].
thefightingcock.co.uk
This thread, whose first few pages featured numerous people complaining about how Conte ['s football] broke them, was created when we were in the mix for..
... top 4.
Due to the ongoing deterioration of the squad that has lowered the expectations quite sharply since then, Frank luckily never had to face such snobbery: He was, from day one, given green light by the fans to try to grind out results by whatever means necessary. This thread was absolutely buzzing, and any kind of skepticism about the sustainabiity of our results was met with vigorous gatekeeping, when he was 4th or even inside top 8.
The situation that we are in might have been reasonably brushed aside as a fit issue if Frank was, let's say, 8th but was struggling to win the fans over due to his penchant for long balls and set pieces.
This description fits Nuno's tenure to a much greater extent for example. Fans never bought into him, even when we were getting those 1-0s early in the season to rack up those points. He was 9th when he got sacked, right after he and the team got booed off the pitch in a 3-0 defeat to United.
Those aforementioned three, to varying degrees, failed to fit in. Frank simply failed.
Management - Return of the Poch
Would you welcome Poch back to sort out the club malaise.
thefightingcock.co.uk
This thread, whose first few pages featured numerous people complaining about how Conte ['s football] broke them, was created when we were in the mix for..
... top 4.
Due to the ongoing deterioration of the squad that has lowered the expectations quite sharply since then, Frank luckily never had to face such snobbery: He was, from day one, given green light by the fans to try to grind out results by whatever means necessary. This thread was absolutely buzzing, and any kind of skepticism about the sustainabiity of our results was met with vigorous gatekeeping, when he was 4th or even inside top 8.
The situation that we are in might have been reasonably brushed aside as a fit issue if Frank was, let's say, 8th but was struggling to win the fans over due to his penchant for long balls and set pieces.
This description fits Nuno's tenure to a much greater extent for example. Fans never bought into him, even when we were getting those 1-0s early in the season to rack up those points. He was 9th when he got sacked, right after he and the team got booed off the pitch in a 3-0 defeat to United.
Those aforementioned three, to varying degrees, failed to fit in. Frank simply failed.
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Ultimately, we're unwatchable and keep signing the wrong players. Frank out.
Bro what are we waiting for. Jol was sacked at half time and he actually had the backing of the fans
Get this moppy haired, defensive, fucking coward out of my beloved club
Get this moppy haired, defensive, fucking coward out of my beloved club
We're far worse than our place in the table. We had some ridiculously lucky results that we deserved nothing from and scored out of nowhere.
The absolute worst coach we've had in the PL era given the backing he's had.
My hunch is Johnny Heitinga till end of the season when Poch returns.
Would explain the Gallagher transfer.
Would explain the Gallagher transfer.
Probably never a better time to get the replacement in with who's available now and they dithered. So us.
Yea I have a sneaky suspicion he'll be caretaker manager soon. Very strange appointment I would say- hard to say what is going on without more details of who brought in who, but if by board/exec then could be a sign they will clean house on Frank's whole staff, and needed someone they could trust.
Thing is, I'm not really convinced Heitinga is going to be any better at getting us points in a relegation battle than Frank, so, what's the point? Just have somebody on standby just in case? Strange times no doubt...
They are protecting him. They want him to carry on as our manager, because then we will be useless and pose no threats to continue being the big 6 clubs. And the best outcome for them will be for Frank to drag us down to be relegated and fuck out of the league.
I’ve literally stayed up till 5am to see the confirmation of this coward being sacked. What the hell bro just fucking get rid of him what’s the problem
Bloke is such a damp squib I think the media are bored with him. He's got neither an aura nor the prickly personality to stir the pot with the reporters.