Manager Thomas Frank

[Timberwolf]

I do not think Vinai had much influence until Levy left but yes the board made the decision but it is not clear if the sacking was supported by Levy. I do not think any decision on next season has been made and it will depend on results and the reactions of the home fans. If the atmosphere is like recent matches then he will go. It is rumoured that at least 1 board member wants Frank out and whatever Vinai believes if things do not improve he is gone.

Click to shrink...

My read on it was following the board's extended review of club operations they lined up Vinai as Levy's successor and he acted as their puppet and mouth-piece over the summer.

While it's impossible to know for sure, I suspect Levy was on a much shorter leash than in previous years. Donna Cullen getting axed, chummy PR wine-chats with Vinai, us spending far more on wages for Xavi than Levy would typically condone, the 'collective' sacking of Ange - it wasn't a typical summer by Spurs and Levy standards.

As for whether Levy supported the sacking of Ange, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I could see Levy succumbing to the emotional fan-reaction post-Bilbao and deciding to keep him. The fact the statement specifically name-checked the board does seem like Levy trying to protect himself a bit and hide behind them.

 

[Timberwolf]

What if he finishes 14th and gets through another round of Champions League matches?

It'll be an improvement on last season's league position, and a reasonable Champions League run. Isn't it meant to be the start of a project? Don't get me wrong I don't want Frank to continue, I think that the CEO and DOF want to keep him and will only sack him if they (to use a Frankism) really really have to.

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I don't think that would be enough. Even with the CL quarters, the league is what the board will care about most and 14th is still well below par. Finishing 14th would also mean we've have a pretty weak, inconsistent end to our league campaign without a serious upturn in form.

My guess is he'd need a marked, sustained upturn in form over the next 14 league games and see us finish in the top half at the very least.

As for the CL, I don't think that will make a huge impact on his future. Getting to the quarter finals would be impressive on Frank's part but it would take a minor miracle for us to get further than that and I don't think that would have a huge bearing on his future. I think he'd need to do something miraculous like get us to the final or beat some v.strong teams on the way to the semis for it really be a factor.

 

[Tio Martin]

My read on it was following the board's extended review of club operations they lined up Vinai as Levy's successor and he acted as their puppet and mouth-piece over the summer.

While it's impossible to know for sure, I suspect Levy was on a much shorter leash than in previous years. Donna Cullen getting axed, chummy PR wine-chats with Vinai, us spending far more on wages for Xavi than Levy would typically condone, the 'collective' sacking of Ange - it wasn't a typical summer by Spurs and Levy standards.

As for whether Levy supported the sacking of Ange, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I could see Levy succumbing to the emotional fan-reaction post-Bilbao and deciding to keep him. The fact the statement specifically name-checked the board does seem like Levy trying to protect himself a bit and hide behind them.

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Levy himself said the UEL win made him reconsider sacking Ange (which he had already decided to do), but he and the board reached the same decision after thinking about it for a few weeks.

 

[McCOYS]

I don't think that would be enough. Even with the CL quarters, the league is what the board will care about most and 14th is still well below par. Finishing 14th would also mean we've have a pretty weak, inconsistent end to our league campaign without a serious upturn in form.

My guess is he'd need a marked, sustained upturn in form over the next 14 league games and see us finish in the top half at the very least.

As for the CL, I don't think that will make a huge impact on his future. Getting to the quarter finals would be impressive on Frank's part but it would take a minor miracle for us to get further than that and I don't think that would have a huge bearing on his future. I think he'd need to do something miraculous like get us to the final or beat some v.strong teams on the way to the semis for it really be a factor.

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I watched a YouTube clip of Hoddle today on Alan Brazil's TalkSport, radio show, he reckons the teams we played in the Champions League so far apart from PSG are mainly EFL Championship level. I don't know if he's correct about that.

About Frank, all I'm saying is I get the feeling somehow the CEO, DOF and perhaps the ones above, want to stop this sacking the manager every 18 months or whatever it is, and I think they'd rather keep Frank than sack him. Also they have signed another ex Brentford member in the physio team or wherever he works.

The other thing is Lange has stated they've already drawn up plans for the summer transfer window, I don't think he would have announced that if Frank wasn't involved, otherwise they've basically already told him to fuck off.

So as things stand, in 14th, they're still involving him and getting a staff pick that I suppose he wanted, being ex Brentford.

 

[spursmalc]

What if he finishes 14th and gets through another round of Champions League matches?

It'll be an improvement on last season's league position, and a reasonable Champions League run. Isn't it meant to be the start of a project? Don't get me wrong I don't want Frank to continue, I think that the CEO and DOF want to keep him and will only sack him if they (to use a Frankism) really really have to.

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I still believe it will depend on the fans reactions. If they continue with their anti songs it would make his position untenable. More performances like the 2nd half last weekend will save him.

 

[Guy From The Lane]

I don't know about you look but I'm kind of bored about talking about

Well I read this article, here's a excerpt.

Reporting on the situation, Gold told his YouTube channel: “The Lewis family, they’ve wanted to buck the trend at Tottenham of having this wheel of doom, which exists at Tottenham with sacked managers, new players having to be bought for them, rebuild, just frustration pretty much constantly at Tottenham.

The Lewis Family must make Thomas Frank decision at Tottenham they wanted to avoid

❌ The Lewis Family didn't want to make this decision...

www.thespurs.news

So it seems like the message from above the CEO and DOF is don't sack him unless you really have to.
Which could mean 14th place is permissible.
When the season is over there won't be any booing, it won't matter if they don't sack Frank in the summer because the venue is closed.

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bu bu bu bu bu the old one got sacked for more...

I ain't saying I'm one of them, I'm just saying that's what they're gonna say innit... he's gone by the season, he's gone by the seaeeeesoooooon...

MSG settings innit...

I have no idea...like what the WTF...

sorry mate i've gone insane...

 

[1882]

Just thinking back to some of the more illustrious names to have managed us...

Arthur Rowe
Bill Nicholson
Keith Burkinshaw
David Pleat
Terry Venables
Ossie Ardiles
Glenn Hoddle
Martin Jol
Harry Redknapp
Mauricio Pochettino
Jose Mourinho
Antonio Conte

No, they didn't all win trophies with us, some,in Pleat & Poch's case, almost criminally so...

Some, like Ardiles and Hoddle were relative unmitigated disasters... but at least they 'got' us, and while they were here, they WERE TOTTENHAM, for better OR worse!

It's not always about the trophies either (though it helps) ''cos worse managers like Ramos Graham & Ange have won us trophies...

...but I'm talking about the feeling you get for a manager, and I assume, them for us.

Is there a tangible connection?
...whether it's an actual association with the club, or just the aura of the name of a manager... Mourinho and Conte SHOULD'VE worked, but their egos were too big even for US!

But more often, you just feel it... and they feel it too.

Rowe had it, Bill Nic was it, Burkinshaw had it, then we took it from him, Jol and Poch totally got it, regardless of neither winning us a trophy... Redknapp borrowed it briefly but still got it!
Ange thought he'd cracked it, and did at first, but then realised he didn't really understand it, even though he won us a trophy!

When that happens, it tells you more about the man than any tactics board or spreadsheet will....

They've not all been particularly likeable, some rub fans up the wrong way, but in the case of 5 or 6 managers in our HISTORY, they just got IT, GOT US, got the Club!

Frank (nice guy though he apparently is) just does not, nor ever will just GET it with Tottenham.

Fucking hell, where did it all go wrong?

 

[Timberwolf]

I watched a YouTube clip of Hoddle today on Alan Brazil's TalkSport, radio show, he reckons the teams we played in the Champions League so far apart from PSG are mainly EFL Championship level. I don't know if he's correct about that.

About Frank, all I'm saying is I get the feeling somehow the CEO, DOF and perhaps the ones above, want to stop this sacking the manager every 18 months or whatever it is, and I think they'd rather keep Frank than sack him. Also they have signed another ex Brentford member in the physio team or wherever he works.

The other thing is Lange has stated they've already drawn up plans for the summer transfer window, I don't think he would have announced that if Frank wasn't involved, otherwise they've basically already told him to fuck off.

So as things stand, in 14th, they're still involving him and getting a staff pick that I suppose he wanted, being ex Brentford.

Click to shrink...

Hoddle's talking absolute rubbish there. Villareal are 4th in La Liga, Dortmund are 2nd in the Bundesliga, and both have beaten/drawn with some top teams this season. Monaco and Bodo both played us off the park and the latter have beaten City and Atletico Madrid. The only truly rubbish teams we faced were Copenhagen, Slavia Prague and Frankfurt, so 3/7. It was a lucky draw, and we got more points than we deserved, but we didn't only play bad teams apart from PSG.

On Frank, I know there's this pervading chat in the media that "at some point you've got to give a manager time" but I firmly believe a manager has to earn that time and show some green shoots of improvement and progress. Finishing 14th would be well below par and I think the board would be mad to give him more time off the back of that.

As for Lange drawing up long term transfer plans - we should always be doing that regardless of the manager. The whole point of a DoF is supposedly to have a defined 'club' style of play that means we have clear transfer targets that will suit whoever the manager is. And tbh, I doubt it would be too hard to tweak the targets based on a new manager anyway. Clubs do that all the time when they change course and get new managers in. You don't just stop making transfer plans cos the manager's looking shaky.

Maybe you'll be proved right, but I truly believe that unless Frank really kicks on and shows clear improvement over the final stretch the board will cut their losses. 14th-17th simply isn't acceptable, especially given he's already deeply unpopular with the fans and the players don't seem to love him either. The board are clearly looking for excuses to give him time, and I think he'll likely last until the summer, but you need some clear evidence of improvement to give him another shitload of investment in the transfer window and a second season.

 

[McCOYS]

Hoddle's talking absolute rubbish there. Villareal are 4th in La Liga, Dortmund are 2nd in the Bundesliga, and both have beaten/drawn with some top teams this season. Monaco and Bodo both played us off the park and the latter have beaten City and Atletico Madrid. The only truly rubbish teams we faced were Copenhagen, Slavia Prague and Frankfurt, so 3/7. It was a lucky draw, and we got more points than we deserved, but we didn't only play bad teams apart from PSG.

On Frank, I know there's this pervading chat in the media that "at some point you've got to give a manager time" but I firmly believe a manager has to earn that time and show some green shoots of improvement and progress. Finishing 14th would be well below par and I think the board would be mad to give him more time off the back of that.

As for Lange drawing up long term transfer plans - we should always be doing that regardless of the manager. The whole point of a DoF is supposedly to have a defined 'club' style of play that means we have clear transfer targets that will suit whoever the manager is. And tbh, I doubt it would be too hard to tweak the targets based on a new manager anyway. Clubs do that all the time when they change course and get new managers in. You don't just stop making transfer plans cos the manager's looking shaky.

Maybe you'll be proved right, but I truly believe that unless Frank really kicks on and shows clear improvement over the final stretch the board will cut their losses. 14th-17th simply isn't acceptable, especially given he's already deeply unpopular with the fans and the players don't seem to love him either. The board are clearly looking for excuses to give him time, and I think he'll likely last until the summer, but you need some clear evidence of improvement to give him another shitload of investment in the transfer window and a second season.

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So what do you think about this quote apparently from Alasdair Gold?

Reporting on the situation, Gold told his YouTube channel: “The Lewis family, they’ve wanted to buck the trend at Tottenham of having this wheel of doom, which exists at Tottenham with sacked managers, new players having to be bought for them, rebuild, just frustration pretty much constantly at Tottenham.

“The powers that be right now, they’ve been desperate to give Thomas Frank, you know, every possible bit of time, I think, to stop the revolving door of managers that come into this football club.

“I think also trying to get him to a period where he can work with a bit more of a full-strength squad.”

The Lewis Family must make Thomas Frank decision at Tottenham they wanted to avoid

❌ The Lewis Family didn't want to make this decision...

www.thespurs.news

Seems to me the Lewis family are calling the shots about Frank's position judging by what Gold has reportedly reported.

 

[Timberwolf]

So what do you think about this quote apparently from Alasdair Gold?

Reporting on the situation, Gold told his YouTube channel: “The Lewis family, they’ve wanted to buck the trend at Tottenham of having this wheel of doom, which exists at Tottenham with sacked managers, new players having to be bought for them, rebuild, just frustration pretty much constantly at Tottenham.

“The powers that be right now, they’ve been desperate to give Thomas Frank, you know, every possible bit of time, I think, to stop the revolving door of managers that come into this football club.

“I think also trying to get him to a period where he can work with a bit more of a full-strength squad.”

The Lewis Family must make Thomas Frank decision at Tottenham they wanted to avoid

❌ The Lewis Family didn't want to make this decision...

www.thespurs.news

Seems to me the Lewis family are calling the shots about Frank's position judging by what Gold has reportedly reported.

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Well that's 100% why they've not sacked him yet. They're desperate to give him every opportunity in the hope he can turn it around. And they'll absolutely be hoping he can make some big strides in the coming months and give them an excuse to keep him.

But they're also not going to be blind to poor results, fan discontent, and performing well below expectations. There's also been talk that some members of the board already wanted Frank sacked and it's mostly Vinai that's been pushing to keep him so I don't think he has unanimous support moving forward anyway.

As I've said previously - I think his future will depend on how we perform over the remainder of the season. I don't believe they're stupid enough to blindly back a manager just for continuity's sake, if the results remain poor, performances remain ugly and the fans hate his guts. He needs to give them a reason to stick with him over the next few months.

 

[McCOYS]

Well that's 100% why they've not sacked him yet. They're desperate to give him every opportunity in the hope he can turn it around. And they'll absolutely be hoping he can make some big strides in the coming months and give them an excuse to keep him.

But they're also not going to be blind to poor results, fan discontent, and performing well below expectations. There's also been talk that some members of the board already wanted Frank sacked and it's mostly Vinai that's been pushing to keep him so I don't think he has unanimous support moving forward anyway.

As I've said previously - I think his future will depend on how we perform over the remainder of the season. I don't believe they're stupid enough to blindly back a manager just for continuity's sake, if the results remain poor, performances remain ugly and the fans hate his guts. He needs to give them a reason to stick with him over the next few months.

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Well. we'll see how it all pans out in the end.

There's been this narrative that Paratici has been saying how serious the owner of Florentina are, maybe having a dig at ENIC by doing so, then I see this;


View: https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/2019913122773946487?s=20

Schmoozing?
‌Or I suppose he was asked about it by a journalist.

 

[Timberwolf]

Well. we'll see how it all pans out in the end.

There's been this narrative that Paratici has been saying how serious the owner of Florentina are, maybe having a dig at ENIC by doing so, then I see this;


View: https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/2019913122773946487?s=20

Schmoozing?
‌

Click to shrink...

Haha yeah seems like it.

Tbh it sounds like Paratici was completely screwed around, hence he jumped ship in the first place, so can't really blame him.

Hard to piece it all together, but seems like Levy offered him the DoF job well in advance then once Levy was sacked the Lewis' family fudged together this awkward 'dual DoF' compromise that clearly wasn't what Paratici had in mind at all.

Does look pretty incompetent from the board, hence the 'serious owners' comment, but I think there was always bound to be an awkward transition post-Levy. This upcoming summer is the make-or-break window for me. If they get in a new, decent DoF and invest properly in the squad then fair play. If they carry on with the messy structures and false promises then I'm done with them and fully expecting the worst until ENIC sell.

 

[Bazali]

What if he finishes 14th and gets through another round of Champions League matches?

It'll be an improvement on last season's league position, and a reasonable Champions League run. Isn't it meant to be the start of a project? Don't get me wrong I don't want Frank to continue, I think that the CEO and DOF want to keep him and will only sack him if they (to use a Frankism) really really have to.

Click to shrink...

But his football is shite!!

 

[McCOYS]

Haha yeah seems like it.

Tbh it sounds like Paratici was completely screwed around, hence he jumped ship in the first place, so can't really blame him.

Hard to piece it all together, but seems like Levy offered him the DoF job well in advance then once Levy was sacked the Lewis' family fudged together this awkward 'dual DoF' compromise that clearly wasn't what Paratici had in mind at all.

Does look pretty incompetent from the board, hence the 'serious owners' comment, but I think there was always bound to be an awkward transition post-Levy. This upcoming summer is the make-or-break window for me. If they get in a new, decent DoF and invest properly in the squad then fair play. If they carry on with the messy structures and false promises then I'm done with them and fully expecting the worst until ENIC sell.

Click to shrink...

I've read they're planning to replace Paratici and continue with the two DOF model.
I suppose the idea was Venkatesham's, apparently having two is more common than I thought.

 

[Timberwolf]

I've read they're planning to replace Paratici and continue with the two DOF model.
I suppose the idea was Venkatesham's, apparently having two is more common than I thought.

Click to shrink...

Curious to see how that looks in reality. Is it just a way of 'quiet firing' Lange? Giving them an excuse to openly look for a replacement without having to sack him in the meantime?

If they do intend to genuinely move forward with the two DoF approach, I sincerely hope Lange is solely focused on signing youth players, and academy stuff. IIRC that was how the breakdown of roles was described in that awkward Paratici/Lange video, where Paratici's responsibilities was far more in line with a traditional DoF, while Lange seemed more like the quiet partner.

Clearly wasn't enough control to keep Paratici happy, though. Unless he really did just leave cos he's got a new fit missus back in Italy.

 

[glacierSpurs]

View: https://x.com/i/status/2019468811087257987
Getting prickly now..

 

[Teach]

What if he finishes 14th and gets through another round of Champions League matches?

It'll be an improvement on last season's league position, and a reasonable Champions League run. Isn't it meant to be the start of a project? Don't get me wrong I don't want Frank to continue, I think that the CEO and DOF want to keep him and will only sack him if they (to use a Frankism) really really have to.

Click to shrink...

Season ticket and exec box attrition will make it impossible not to sack the cunt imo

The mood music on renewals is there will be a massive churn - you can’t give them away

 

[Timberwolf]

Season ticket and exec box attrition will make it impossible not to sack the cunt imo

The mood music on renewals is there will be a massive churn - you can’t give them away

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Yeah, I can't think of any big club holding onto a manager after such a poor season. Everyone talks about Vinai being patient with Arteta and wanting to repeat that with Frank, but despite a very dodgy start to his second season, Arteta still came 8th and had a very strong run in. Think they won their last 5 games in a row and only lost about 2 or 3 after Christmas.

The only real comparison is United sticking with Amorim, and I think that was mostly because they felt he hadn't been given a pre-season and needed time and money to adapt the squad to a back 3. Plus he got to a European final.

Frank on the other hand did get a full pre-season, isn't using some completely different formation and was able to get in some players he specifically wanted in Palhinha and Kudus. I think us keeping him on if he finishes around 14th or below would be pretty much unparalleled in the modern PL for a club with our expectations.

 

[Murphy]

His comments about this being the owners first transfer window are quite unbelievable.

 

[Steve007]

View: https://x.com/i/status/2019468811087257987
Getting prickly now..

Click to shrink...

This man is just an ENIC puppet.