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Player Timo Werner

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Spursidol said:
To fit in Werner ? Whilst Son is at Asian Cup, I think Werner plays where Son did before he joined the South Korea squad as LW so its :

Werner, Richarlison Johnson

After Son is back, a front line of Son, Werner and Johnson would be faster and more scary than any other PL side.

But in practice I think Ange will probably stick with Son but vary the other two starters, whether that's because of the opposition or how they do in training or whatever I really couldn't say.

But whoever of the 4 doesn't start I think will get more time off bench than Ange has previously given, with Scarlett also getting time.

All of them have something different and Ange will like to test the opposition with all of them - and most including Scarlett are great at pressing which helps maintain Ange's high line..

Not sure where that leaves Solomon, I think it will depend on how he looks in training. IMO Gil will probably be loaned out again - the issue is that he doesn't contribute a goal threat although he's a great dribbler.

With Dragusin, I think we need to see how he plays - but I think Romero/Van de Ven look very good so it will be up to Dragusin to show what he can do. It would not surprise me if we don't see him as a starter that regularly until next season when with europe we will have a higher match intensity meaning rotation is necessary - and Dragusin is tight footed, more frequently plays as LCB but can play RCB.

I think its clear Dier is moving on now. Both Davies and Royal have a role this season as back up full backs but also emergency CB's too - they've excelled at CB in recent matches, only real weakness I think is at set pieces ? What part Sessegnon plays is unclear - better to loan him out as he's not played for almost a year.

I'd like to see Phillips and/or Dorrington get some minutes off the bench - but I'm not sure that will happen.
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I was talking about the limitations on the PL squad. with regard to club trained, home grown and foreign players. Werner is obviously one of the foreign contingent. Whose spot do you reckon he will take.

I don't keep abreast of that situation at all. I just hope we don't manufacture another situation where we have to release another player from their contract like we did with (was it) Aurier (?) for example.
 
Rocket said:
I was talking about the limitations on the PL squad. with regard to club trained, home grown and foreign players. Werner is obviously one of the foreign contingent. Whose spot do you reckon he will take.

I don't keep abreast of that situation at all. I just hope we don't manufacture another situation where we have to release another player from their contract like we did with (was it) Aurier (?) for example.
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Weren't Hugo in the squad, despite having no realistic role to play? I seem to recall so, but could be wrong. Even if not, we've got an available non-HG spot by removing Perisic. Shouldn't be an issue, I would think.
 
If Werner could get his RBL 2016-20 mojo back, we'd be getting an even more prolific version Son (very, very similar traits. Burst of pace, and good finishing technique, but a bit bumbly and technically suspect elsewhere and off side a lot) who presses even better than Son. The numbers and work rate combined at that 16-20 RBL were very good.

But he's not produced that RBL 16-20 Werner for 3-4 years (although he was a goal in 2 last year) and even if he does produce it, do we trust it enough to punt permanently?

The other thing to remember is that he had players round him and a system that suited his game in those peak years.

Worst case, we get 2023 RBL, which will just add to our existing bumbling, off-side limited forwards.
 
LuckyMe said:
Weren't Hugo in the squad, despite having no realistic role to play? I seem to recall so, but could be wrong. Even if not, we've got an available non-HG spot by removing Perisic. Shouldn't be an issue, I would think.
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Dunno about Hugo, but you're right, Perisic is the one isn't he? I think Ange has said he won't play another game for Spurs. Which is a shame in my opinion, he's such a talent. Great experience to have in our young dressing room.
 
Rocket said:
I was talking about the limitations on the PL squad. with regard to club trained, home grown and foreign players. Werner is obviously one of the foreign contingent. Whose spot do you reckon he will take.

I don't keep abreast of that situation at all. I just hope we don't manufacture another situation where we have to release another player from their contract like we did with (was it) Aurier (?) for example.
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No problems squad number wise - we announce squad at end of window so we have time to sort things out.

Lloris was in our 26 man squad but has left, so our first free place.

Dier equally in our 25 man squad, and the signs seem to be he is going to Munich, but yet to be finalised. If he doesn't go. I think since Ange came out to say Perisic is very unlikely to play for Spurs again, I think he is dropped from the squad we announce at end of window - but not sure if there is anything in his contract triggered by dropping him out of the squad, although given his medical situation and contract up at end of season, I cannot see anything that can't be handled.

So with 2 (or even 3) overseas trained player places freed up we have no issue in accommodating Dragusin and Werner as its a like for like change.
 
bus-conductor said:
If Werner could get his RBL 2016-20 mojo back, we'd be getting an even more prolific version Son (very, very similar traits. Burst of pace, and good finishing technique, but a bit bumbly and technically suspect elsewhere and off side a lot) who presses even better than Son. The numbers and work rate combined at that 16-20 RBL were very good.

But he's not produced that RBL 16-20 Werner for 3-4 years (although he was a goal in 2 last year) and even if he does produce it, do we trust it enough to punt permanently?

The other thing to remember is that he had players round him and a system that suited his game in those peak years.

Worst case, we get 2023 RBL, which will just add to our existing bumbling, off-side limited forwards.
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After ManU (Jan 14) our next match is FA Cup 4th round which is played on weekend of 27/28 Jan, so there's almost 2 weeks for Ange to see Werner in action and train ways in which Werner, Richarlison, Johnson and others plan how our attacking play works.

So hopefully plenty of time to work out a lot of things
 
bus-conductor said:
If Werner could get his RBL 2016-20 mojo back, we'd be getting an even more prolific version Son (very, very similar traits. Burst of pace, and good finishing technique, but a bit bumbly and technically suspect elsewhere and off side a lot) who presses even better than Son. The numbers and work rate combined at that 16-20 RBL were very good.

But he's not produced that RBL 16-20 Werner for 3-4 years (although he was a goal in 2 last year) and even if he does produce it, do we trust it enough to punt permanently?

The other thing to remember is that he had players round him and a system that suited his game in those peak years.

Worst case, we get 2023 RBL, which will just add to our existing bumbling, off-side limited forwards.
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Let’s not get carried away

More prolific than Son takes him into Haaland or Salah territory.

Son is on pace for 30+ goal contributions over a 38 game PL season. He is third in the league behind those two.

Son also won the golden boot a couple seasons ago

Werner was prolific in Germany with little proven in the PL - he was a flop
 
He flopped at Chelsea. His underlying numbers were not terrible but he still flopped. The problem I have though with his time at Chelsea is that he was signed under Frank Lampard whom we all know cannot manage, then went on to be managed by Tuchel who did not want him or Abraham to lead the line. They went on to sign Lukaku the following summer for £100m. So I can see how his career went to shit after a very promising time in Germany.

The fact is at least we are not shelling out big money on him to start off with but if Ange and his team can work with him and get the opportunities this could be a great signing. At least he is a cheap signing that may help us.
 
Rocket said:
According to Wikipedia (I know) 1 goal in every 5.6 appearances would suggest flop is an apt descirption for a £47.5m acquisition.

EDIT:

0.23 G per 90 in the PL. I'd say that is in flop territory.
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KaneDomBadBoy said:
He went back to Germany after 2 years - he was a flop

He's no where near the level of Son.

Prime Lucas Moura is a better comparison
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RB 23/24 = 1 x G/A (2+1) every 128mins.
RB 22/23 = 1 x G/A (16+6) every 128mins.
CFC 21/22 = 1 x G/A (11+6) every 130mins.
CFC 20/21 = 1 x G/A (12+15) every 141mins.
RB 19/20 = 1 x G/A (34+13) every 76mins.

Lucas never hit those kind of numbers.
 
bus-conductor said:
If Werner could get his RBL 2016-20 mojo back, we'd be getting an even more prolific version Son (very, very similar traits. Burst of pace, and good finishing technique, but a bit bumbly and technically suspect elsewhere and off side a lot) who presses even better than Son. The numbers and work rate combined at that 16-20 RBL were very good.

But he's not produced that RBL 16-20 Werner for 3-4 years (although he was a goal in 2 last year) and even if he does produce it, do we trust it enough to punt permanently?

The other thing to remember is that he had players round him and a system that suited his game in those peak years.

Worst case, we get 2023 RBL, which will just add to our existing bumbling, off-side limited forwards.
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Do we have similar players and a similar system? At 27 he should be at his peak.
 
Steve73 said:
Do we have similar players and a similar system? At 27 he should be at his peak.
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His managers were Hassenhutl, Ragnick and Nagelsmann - the first two pretty similar, aggressive, vertical, high risk football. Often 4222. First few years he had Poulsen next to him to do the heavy lifting. Under Nagelsmann it was more patient, controlled football, possession, more structure and tactically varied, but still pretty front foot stuff, he had Schick/Poulsen with Nkunku just behind or next to him.

I think our intentions are a bit of a mish mash of styles of those RBL days. Ange takes risks, but we also like to have the ball a lot often. Werner will almost certainly play that wide left-inverted forward role that Son's been playing and my guess is it will look very similar. How much does Richarlison create for Son? Maybe if Maddison comes back we could see Werner feed off him.

Just like Son, Werner will be more use in quick transition attacks than when we are up against the bus I think.
 
bus-conductor said:
His managers were Hassenhutl, Ragnick and Nagelsmann - the first two pretty similar, aggressive, vertical, high risk football. Often 4222. First few years he had Poulsen next to him to do the heavy lifting. Under Nagelsmann it was more patient, controlled football, possession, more structure and tactically varied, but still pretty front foot stuff, he had Schick/Poulsen with Nkunku just behind or next to him.

I think our intentions are a bit of a mish mash of styles of those RBL days. Ange takes risks, but we also like to have the ball a lot often. Werner will almost certainly play that wide left-inverted forward role that Son's been playing and my guess is it will look very similar. How much does Richarlison create for Son? Maybe if Maddison comes back we could see Werner feed off him.

Just like Son, Werner will be more use in quick transition attacks than when we are up against the bus I think.
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Thanks for the info.
 
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