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Management What proves managerial competence?

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I agree; I wasn’t happy with that bit :
should have been “ would prefer to shop at Lidl but realises he can’t avoid shopping at “ overpriced” Waitrose and so goes for the reduced items because they represent a bargain “ . ( Even if they go off in a day or two ; and thus actually end up being more expensive , in terms of what you get for your outlay ) .
Tbf, Waitrose is generally over-priced and you can get pretty decent quality at LIDL.

However, perhaps the analogy could be modified by having a list to take to LIDL and then Waitrose, but the shops are shutting, so just fills the trolley with anything from wherever he is so the cupboard isn’t bare? Sometimes it’s Waitrose, sometimes LIDL, sometimes B&Q.

Oh - and the list is generally out of date or has a bit missing as the person looking in the cupboard before going shopping is a f***ing idiot.
 
I agree; I wasn’t happy with that bit :
should have been “ would prefer to shop at Lidl but realises he can’t avoid shopping at “ overpriced” Waitrose and so goes for the reduced items because they represent a bargain “ . ( Even if they go off in a day or two ; and thus actually end up being more expensive , in terms of what you actually get for your outlay ) .

Possibly.

I also think we just don't develop players as much as we should.

Look at some of the so called lesser clubs, and some of the players that come to the fore. Objectively not as good when bought, but into a recipe that brings out much more of their flavour.

We ain't changing our model,so we got to find a better chef.
 
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Tbf, Waitrose is generally over-priced and you can get pretty decent quality at LIDL.

However, perhaps the analogy could be modified by having a list to take to LIDL and then Waitrose, but the shops are shutting, so just fills the trolley with anything from wherever he is so the cupboard isn’t bare? Sometimes it’s Waitrose, sometimes LIDL, sometimes B&Q.

Oh - and the list is generally out of date or has a bit missing as the person looking in the cupboard before going shopping is a f***ing idiot.

Genuinely could not have put it better myself.

In the modern world; buy the right ingredients and the 3 star Michelin Chef will come ; easy . See Pep , Ancelotti .

Take a chance and even Bournemouth or or Notts Forest could get a Michelin one star restaurant.

The problem is we’re betwixt and between; a 3 star set-up ; with not quite good enough ingredients and a
“ next off the rank “ attitude to employ the “ has-been “ / “ next new thing Chef de Cuisine “ ) .

We’re essentially a Jamie Oliver diner ; big name , smart premises , high prices but very mediocre food .
 
I also think we just don't develop players as much as we should.

Look at some of the so called lesser clubs, and some of the players that come to the fore. Objectively not as good when bought, but into a recipe that brings out much more of their flavour.

We ain't changing our model,so we got to find a better chef.

As I said before ( although what do I know ) ; we’re not small enough, as a club , to take chances and bring on and develop youth ( because missing out on CL etc ) …. and at the same time we’re not big enough ( for f@“£ knows what reason ) to pay for the players and staff who could ensure (at least ) top 4 .

Essentially we’re The Inbetweeners .
 
Genuinely could not have put it better myself.

In the modern world; buy the right ingredients and the 3 star Michelin Chef will come ; easy . See Pep , Ancelotti .

Take a chance and even Bournemouth or or Notts Forest could get a Michelin one star restaurant.

The problem is we’re betwixt and between; a 3 star set-up ; with not quite good enough ingredients and a
“ next off the rank “ attitude to employ the “ has-been “ / “ next new thing Chef de Cuisine “ ) .

We’re essentially a Jamie Oliver diner ; big name , smart premises , high prices but very mediocre food .

At the moment.

Let's hope our dinner dates over the new few weeks are left envious of the dishes they have been served.

And pray next time round we get a Master chef.
 
One thing that occurs to me, and hasn't got much of a mention yet in here, is being able to adapt successfully - both from game to game for different opponents, and perhaps even more crucially, changing something subtle during a game to impact the result. I don't just mean making subs etc, I mean spotting something in the first 10 or 15 minutes, be it a weakness on our side that we need to resolve, or a weakness on their side that we need to exploit, and doing something about it. For me, that's one of the things that separates the really world class managers from the rest - being able to squeeze that extra little advantage from simply watching how the game starts and adjusting something to optimalise our chances. I will happily admit that I rarely spot anything of that nature myself, but when pundits explain such things after a game, and show examples of how a manager has slightly changed the shape or a specific player's position or approach or whatever, it really reminds me of how far ahead of everyone else the true tacticians are (including all being infinitely far ahead of all those on here who think they would and could be great managers 😂 ).
 
He didn't win a damn Trophy!

soo much waffle into a sentence...HE DIDN'T WIN A TROPHY...
So what? Conte had won trophies, Mourinho had won trophies, how did that work out for us? If we had ownership capable of actually investing in the playing side to the extent of making us deep enough to challenge for trophies consistently, yeah maybe I'd wanna bring in a winner and have a real go of it. But it's a fucking waste of time under Levy mate. We could blow money out of our arsehole and bring Zidane or Klopp in and it won't make a blind bit of difference to our prospects because he'll be haggling over the £15m asking price of Jean-Jacques N'everheardofhim when it comes time to build the title winning squad he needs. May as well bring in a guy like Iraola or Pochettino who can quantifiably improve short term results and put us in a better position for a prospective sale where the club's performances actually match Levy and ENIC's valuation. At current languishing in the bottom half no serious person is gonna buy the club and ultimately that's what we need long term, a sale.
 
but I think what he did at Bournemouth was harder to do than winning carabao cup with this Newcastle team.
started at -17pts at AFCB because of previous rule breaking. Kept them up.
Next season promoted
Next season promoted
Next season fell out with them and went to Burnley
Next season rejoined AFCB (his Burney team got promoted)
Next season promoted
Kept them in the PL for a few seasons, eventually relegsted when one or 2 expensive buys didnt perform.

Incredible run of success before the eventual relegation and resignation.
 
First rule of sacking a manager - make sure you've got someone better lined up

AVB had failed disastrously at Chavs in his only PL season. But he came cheapo because no compo to pay.

Thanks Levy.

When anyone buys anything with a great label at a cut-down cost there’s usually a reason for it being ,apparently, underpriced .

Very , very occasionally you land yourself a bargain ; 95 % of the time you spent less to get even lesser .

Goes for used cars , company shares , football managers , football players … I could go on .

The only way round it is to “ know things that others don’t “ ; and unfortunately, despite all his obvious talents , our beloved Chairman doesn’t understand how to win at football (on behalf of supporters) in the way he knows how to win at business ( on behalf of himself and his close family) .
 
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One thing that occurs to me, and hasn't got much of a mention yet in here, is being able to adapt successfully - both from game to game for different opponents, and perhaps even more crucially, changing something subtle during a game to impact the result. I don't just mean making subs etc, I mean spotting something in the first 10 or 15 minutes, be it a weakness on our side that we need to resolve, or a weakness on their side that we need to exploit, and doing something about it. For me, that's one of the things that separates the really world class managers from the rest - being able to squeeze that extra little advantage from simply watching how the game starts and adjusting something to optimalise our chances. I will happily admit that I rarely spot anything of that nature myself, but when pundits explain such things after a game, and show examples of how a manager has slightly changed the shape or a specific player's position or approach or whatever, it really reminds me of how far ahead of everyone else the true tacticians are (including all being infinitely far ahead of all those on here who think they would and could be great managers 😂 ).
I did mention this flaw mate. Pointed out that that space teams exploit between centerback and whichever fullback plays has been there all season. It comes from the wide player: BJ, Odo being constantly high up for that back post run and not dropping back in support of Porro or Spence. Ange seems either not able to fix it, or not minded too.
 
Indicators of good manager:

good judge of a player, whether it's one already in the club or a transfer target

Billy Nick, Keith B, Redknapp I'd rate highly for those qulaities

Good tactician

Redknapp, Poch, Conte

Flexible tactitican

Redknapp, Conte (Poch got found out in Europe badly by Juve, and I have to say our run to the CL final was about the luckiest Ive ever seen)

Improves players

Poch massively at times; Redknapp


Best yardstick of all is can they turn things around when the wheels come off.

Poch and Redknapp werent supported well. For Poch the wheels did come off from about Feb the previous season, but the CL craziness masked it all. He looked exhausted by the time we got to the CL final. Redknapp didnt exactly fail (4th) but the squad was too small and the team was running on empty by the end.

Poch had managed well at Soton with limited budgets but fewer mtches. Redknapp had got Spam to 5th having turned around from a relegtion fightiong team the year bfore.

Poch needed more help, I don't think he was a particularly good judge of a transfer target. Redknapp had very few duds in all the years he was at Spurs, Spam, Pompey. Probably a better hit rate than SAF. For instance when Modric broke his leg he got in Krankjar cheap and we got CL. When Gomes became poor he got Brad F on a free. Picked up Scott Parker cheap, ditto Adebayor. Both proven in the PL. Bought Palacios in Jan window and sudenly the team that had 2 pts from 8 was top 4 PPG.

Redknapp edges it for me despite Poch getting so close to the title and the CL.
 
Someone who's gameplan goes beyond

When we've got the ball, everyone runs forward.

When they've got the ball, everyone runs back.
 
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I did mention this flaw mate. Pointed out that that space teams exploit between centerback and whichever fullback plays has been there all season. It comes from the wide player: BJ, Odo being constantly high up for that back post run and not dropping back in support of Porro or Spence. Ange seems either not able to fix it, or not minded too.
Sorry, I meant not many people mentioning it in the context of this thread, i.e. "what proves managerial competence?", rather than focussing on Ange and us right now - I assumed the question was intended to be a general one, about all managers (which tbh is a nice break from talking about us). When looking for a new manager (any club I mean, at any time), I'm not sure people place enough emphasis on adaptability, both from game to game, and within games.

Edit: Actually looking back at the last couple of pages, I can see the thread has already been well and truly derailed from the (very interesting) original question - shame. :(
 
So what? Conte had won trophies, Mourinho had won trophies, how did that work out for us? If we had ownership capable of actually investing in the playing side to the extent of making us deep enough to challenge for trophies consistently, yeah maybe I'd wanna bring in a winner and have a real go of it. But it's a fucking waste of time under Levy mate. We could blow money out of our arsehole and bring Zidane or Klopp in and it won't make a blind bit of difference to our prospects because he'll be haggling over the £15m asking price of Jean-Jacques N'everheardofhim when it comes time to build the title winning squad he needs. May as well bring in a guy like Iraola or Pochettino who can quantifiably improve short term results and put us in a better position for a prospective sale where the club's performances actually match Levy and ENIC's valuation. At current languishing in the bottom half no serious person is gonna buy the club and ultimately that's what we need long term, a sale.
Why are people twisting my words - I mean for us.

Whoever we hire must bring trophies.
 
Indicators of good manager:

good judge of a player, whether it's one already in the club or a transfer target

Billy Nick, Keith B, Redknapp I'd rate highly for those qulaities

Good tactician

Redknapp, Poch, Conte

Flexible tactitican

Redknapp, Conte (Poch got found out in Europe badly by Juve, and I have to say our run to the CL final was about the luckiest Ive ever seen)

Improves players

Poch massively at times; Redknapp


Best yardstick of all is can they turn things around when the wheels come off.

Poch and Redknapp werent supported well. For Poch the wheels did come off from about Feb the previous season, but the CL craziness masked it all. He looked exhausted by the time we got to the CL final. Redknapp didnt exactly fail (4th) but the squad was too small and the team was running on empty by the end.

Poch had managed well at Soton with limited budgets but fewer mtches. Redknapp had got Spam to 5th having turned around from a relegtion fightiong team the year bfore.

Poch needed more help, I don't think he was a particularly good judge of a transfer target. Redknapp had very few duds in all the years he was at Spurs, Spam, Pompey. Probably a better hit rate than SAF. For instance when Modric broke his leg he got in Krankjar cheap and we got CL. When Gomes became poor he got Brad F on a free. Picked up Scott Parker cheap, ditto Adebayor. Both proven in the PL. Bought Palacios in Jan window and sudenly the team that had 2 pts from 8 was top 4 PPG.

Redknapp edges it for me despite Poch getting so close to the title and the CL.

Marco Silva - Fulham.
Just did Liverpool 2 days ago. Nobody has mentioned anything about it on here.
Absolutely garbage CB pairing. Squad has no business beating Liverpool.
 
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