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Are you happy with the transfer strategy of ENIC?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 53.9%
  • No

    Votes: 28 31.5%
  • I don't know and I don't care. This is a stupid poll.

    Votes: 13 14.6%

  • Total voters
    89
We will actually quite likely see at least another team "do a Leeds", probably this summer. QPR in particular.

It's not about doing a Leeds as much as the mentality of "spend some money" is based on this mythical idea that all you need to do is buy a few "superstar" players and everything magically improves.

We've seen plenty of evidence that you can't buy your way to overnight success with several "projects" around Europe blowing up in failure, and a lot of "big names" turn out to be colossal failures because they're completely wrong for a particular club, or just weren't very good period. (Radamel Falcao).

The clubs that have done well, and in particular, done well in Europe and the League at the same time (unlike City), all have a coherent system with structure and planning. Yes, buying a few players who can improve the squad is fine, but you need a plan first that actually identifies "right fit" players who will actually contribute to the squad. Just spending money on a bunch of names doesn't do that. We didn't really have adequate plans in place in the past, and as a result, spending some money for us was a bit of a problem, since we generally bought pretty damn poorly, between Redknapp, AVB and Baldini being unable to identify talent and fit them into a coherent system.

Most people who scream "spend some money" though, remember none of that and simply rattle off a bunch of names which they saw on a highlight reel or in FIFA. The real world doesn't work like that, and clubs that win things don't work like that.

I am not saying that you are like that, but that's where the whole "spend some money!"/"don't do a Leeds" dichotomy comes from.

I mean, rich clubs that spend money win things. Since 2007/2008 there has only been one club to win one of the big four leagues or make a Champions League semi-final that wasn't ranked in Deloitte's top 20 most valuable clubs in the world and that was Wolfsburg who won the Bundesliga in 2008/2009.

For someone who is obsessively stats based you're very flippant when it comes to sample size. Using Radamel Falcao or our terrible 2013 summer acquisitions are not telling measures of spending money whatsoever.

There is no logical basis that would say just because we failed when spending 100m once that we would fail if we did it again. An argument could be made that because Baldini and Levy are poor evaluators but ultimately just by spending that much money they would still have moderate success more times than not. Would it be as effective as a shrewd club spending 100m? Most likely not, but it would still somewhat successful because spending big mitigates a substantial amount of concerns in regards to scouting. The reason for this is simple, on average, a more expensive player will outperform a less expensive player.

There will be flops, of course, and there are plenty of cheap players that vastly outperform their price tag but on average a more expensive player will outperform a less expensive player. If Spurs were to spend a 100m a summer for the next three years it would require an extreme aberration for the club to not be better than it is today even if you grade the decisions makers as particularly poor. Expensive players are generally expensive for a good reason.

Looking, for example, at the likes of City, Real Madrid, and Chelsea they don't seem to be wizards in the ways of scouting. However, when they can spend 200-300m over the course of three windows they are able to play the overwhelming odds that expensive players will outperform cheaper ones. Just because Torres, Kaka, and Robinho flopped doesn't mean that big money players like Bale, Ronaldo, Aguero, Silva, Costa, Hazard, etc will as well. While flops are easy to point at they are much more often aberration than regularity.

Now, of course Tottenham aren't one of those teams that can continually play the favorable odds in the transfer market and write off big money flops. I've long called on the club to embrace the fact that it does not have the same monetary resources as the true big boys and build a smart scouting system. It finally seems like we've chosen to do this. However, it doesn't change the fact that Mitchell can spend 10,000 hours in the black box room looking for a Central Midfielder and whoever ends up paying the 70m for Paul Pogba will in all likelihood get the better player. Equally, Mitchell can scout a wonderkid from Croatia or Serbia but the better choice for next season would be to pay +20m for Morgan Schneiderlin. Money makes your scouting much easier.

Fortunately for us, we've built a phenomenal academy and much credit to the club for playing the long game on that. Not even including the five first teamers (with more to come) we have at the moment it has paid off handsomely with the substantial sales of Livermore (8m), Caulker (8m), Falque (4m), probably Carroll this summer, and we also got not insignificant fees for Dawkins, Luongo and a few others.

But the value of having a quality academy doesn't simply lie in the production of players but also in the ability to invest more money into fewer spots. Because of the cheap academy players that have come through and will continue to come through we have the luxury to go big on our most pressing needs like winger, center half, and central midfield.

So yes, I am in the spend some fucking money camp. I will be extremely disappointed if we pull the shit that we did this summer again. We have a manager that actually seems worth trusting, a technical director with good pedigree and an actual system, and a booming academy that has the ability to sort out depth roles in the squad.

Now is the time to smartly pick a few players that will improve the first eleven and open the cheque book in a big way. We have no debt, massive new revenue streams/TV money, and a solid base of a squad. Get out there this summer and SPEND SOME FUCKING MONEY. I'll be fuming if we don't tbh, there's no excuses at this point. Everyone can see our deficiencies, back our manager and address the faults. This team has real potential going forward if Levy puts some money behind it.
 
[QUOTE="Cripps14, post: 759348, member: 574"
Spending large sums on players doesn't guarantee success. Buying the right players is much more important.[/QUOTE

100% agree. Instead of fucking around trying to save a a few quid here or there and finishing up with 2nd or 3rd choice targets you mean, right ?
 
I mean, rich clubs that spend money win things. Since 2007/2008 there has only been one club to win one of the big four leagues or make a Champions League semi-final that wasn't ranked in Deloitte's top 20 most valuable clubs in the world and that was Wolfsburg who won the Bundesliga in 2008/2009.

For someone who is obsessively stats based you're very flippant when it comes to sample size. Using Radamel Falcao or our terrible 2013 summer acquisitions are not telling measures of spending money whatsoever.

There is no logical basis that would say just because we failed when spending 100m once that we would fail if we did it again. An argument could be made that because Baldini and Levy are poor evaluators but ultimately just by spending that much money they would still have moderate success more times than not. Would it be as effective as a shrewd club spending 100m? Most likely not, but it would still somewhat successful because spending big mitigates a substantial amount of concerns in regards to scouting. The reason for this is simple, on average, a more expensive player will outperform a less expensive player.

There will be flops, of course, and there are plenty of cheap players that vastly outperform their price tag but on average a more expensive player will outperform a less expensive player. If Spurs were to spend a 100m a summer for the next three years it would require an extreme aberration for the club to not be better than it is today even if you grade the decisions makers as particularly poor. Expensive players are generally expensive for a good reason.

Looking, for example, at the likes of City, Real Madrid, and Chelsea they don't seem to be wizards in the ways of scouting. However, when they can spend 200-300m over the course of three windows they are able to play the overwhelming odds that expensive players will outperform cheaper ones. Just because Torres, Kaka, and Robinho flopped doesn't mean that big money players like Bale, Ronaldo, Aguero, Silva, Costa, Hazard, etc will as well. While flops are easy to point at they are much more often aberration than regularity.

Now, of course Tottenham aren't one of those teams that can continually play the favorable odds in the transfer market and write off big money flops. I've long called on the club to embrace the fact that it does not have the same monetary resources as the true big boys and build a smart scouting system. It finally seems like we've chosen to do this. However, it doesn't change the fact that Mitchell can spend 10,000 hours in the black box room looking for a Central Midfielder and whoever ends up paying the 70m for Paul Pogba will in all likelihood get the better player. Equally, Mitchell can scout a wonderkid from Croatia or Serbia but the better choice for next season would be to pay +20m for Morgan Schneiderlin. Money makes your scouting much easier.

Fortunately for us, we've built a phenomenal academy and much credit to the club for playing the long game on that. Not even including the five first teamers (with more to come) we have at the moment it has paid off handsomely with the substantial sales of Livermore (8m), Caulker (8m), Falque (4m), probably Carroll this summer, and we also got not insignificant fees for Dawkins, Luongo and a few others.

But the value of having a quality academy doesn't simply lie in the production of players but also in the ability to invest more money into fewer spots. Because of the cheap academy players that have come through and will continue to come through we have the luxury to go big on our most pressing needs like winger, center half, and central midfield.

So yes, I am in the spend some fucking money camp. I will be extremely disappointed if we pull the shit that we did this summer again. We have a manager that actually seems worth trusting, a technical director with good pedigree and an actual system, and a booming academy that has the ability to sort out depth roles in the squad.

Now is the time to smartly pick a few players that will improve the first eleven and open the cheque book in a big way. We have no debt, massive new revenue streams/TV money, and a solid base of a squad. Get out there this summer and SPEND SOME FUCKING MONEY. I'll be fuming if we don't tbh, there's no excuses at this point. Everyone can see our deficiencies, back our manager and address the faults. This team has real potential going forward if Levy puts some money behind it.
I think you misunderstood me.

Either way, yes, investment on key areas would be nice, but I am concerned about the need for a system being in place to use that talent. We finally have one, and I would like to see some key players brought in, but as final pieces to an already existing plan, rather than an attempt at an overnight success.

I use the examples of Falcao and our past because they are quite relevant to us, there are plenty of other examples too. Most teams are quite bad at transfers. The ratio of hits to failures is not favourable in general across all clubs, and as such, the idea that a club can just spend its way to success in one go is ridiculous. As you point out, and as anyone with half a brain already knew, we can't do that. We never could.

We do have a structure now, and it seems like we have a plan to go with it, in terms of the players we are looking for. That doesn't mean we'll get them anyway, because life isn't that simple and we could still be outbid, or the players might not actually want to come to Tottenham, but it does mean that we may finally be able to be a bit smarter with our money.

I don't expect us to throw another hundred million around and become an instant contender, because we still need to sell first in order to make room for new players, and FFP places limits on our room to manouver, but this won't be like last summer, or the one before.
 
In reference to the poll are you happy with the transfer strategy I voted no. While I must commend Levy and the board on the stunning success of our youth policy, the appointment of Poch, the development of out training facilities and pressing ahead the new stadium I cannot say that our recent transfers have been upto standard.

We bought 7 players worth around £100 million and only Eriksen was a genuine success while Chadli and Lamela were ok, the others Capoue, Chirches, Paulinho, Soldado have totally failed, for me whoever is too blame (Baldini or Levy etc) that is not the sign of a good transfer policy. Then of course we have Stambouli and Fazio who were good enough to be squad players but it seem little else.

I am all for buying young English talents and am perfectly fine with the like of Dele Alli for £5 million and would not be against more young talents but as we have what seems like a bundle of young English talents ready to step up I see little point in continuing to buy average 25 year olds bench warmers from elsewhere.

I know this is a point I have made previously but it seems like the missing piece of the jigsaw for us as a club. If we buy 3-4 Fazio/Chadli level players during the summer which is our recent transfer model we will end up in the same situation next year all wondering why we didn't break top 4. There is a great danger as well in being an unambitious side with one amazing outfield player in Kane just like we were with Bale and then the whole thing repeats, a wonder player at an 'average side' and over time pressure for a move increases and back to square one.

We now have Mitchell so hopefully we will buy better than with Baldini, we have or should have about £50 million in the summer from sales, we need to now abandon the cheap deals on second rate players and be prepared if Poch wants to pay top buck to bring in the goodies, only then will we bring all the pieces together IMO. If Bale does get sold and wants a return for £75 million and we have already made £50 million surely it cannot be beyond us to bring him back and have Kane and Bale ripping Premier League defences to pieces. I know Bale will probably stay or if he goes probably United will get him, but honestly just one signing in Bale will be better than 4 average signings for us as a club in terms of on the pitch success and making a statement to the World of who we are.

I don't know who is our best target, but whoever Poch and the team feel is best it's time as a club to not short change the manager anymore. If Levy is able to resolve what I feel is our flawed transfer policy then as a club I will say we are now being well run on all counts. Right now Levy and the club get a D from me for transfers, our weakest area.
good post. but realistically i think schniderlin & otamendi would be great buys. a more realistic statement to the world. 2 really good signings rather than 5+ average players.
 
We've showed ambition in the transfer market. We've splashed some cash. Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho all weren't exactly cut price deals. Then there were the likes of Darren Bent, Alan Hutton and David Bentley.
We could go right back to Sergei Rebrov. At times we've shown ambition.

Bale between 5-10mil, Modric roughly 16m, Berbatov around 10m, Lloris was 5-10m Euro, Carrick around 4m. King, free, Kane, free.

Spending large sums on players doesn't guarantee success. Buying the right players is much more important.
exactly. & they have rarely bought the right players lately.
 
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He falls down on selling players we don't need as well - refusing to take a loss on players like Bentley and instead just paying them their wages until they leave on a free.

Doesn't make sense, we just need to accept when a transfer has failed and move to damage limitation tactics.
I think this is the weakest aspect of our transfer policy. I think economists call it the "sunk cost fallacy." The concept is that we should not consider money already spent and gone when making decisions going forward. It doesn't matter how much we paid for Soldado. That money is spent. The only question should be: is he now and in the future worth more to us than we can get on the transfer market. It seems that Levy far too often looks at what we paid for a player in deciding his worth. That's not acting rationally. And it's bad for the club.
 
I think this is the weakest aspect of our transfer policy. I think economists call it the "sunk cost fallacy." The concept is that we should not consider money already spent and gone when making decisions going forward. It doesn't matter how much we paid for Soldado. That money is spent. The only question should be: is he now and in the future worth more to us than we can get on the transfer market. It seems that Levy far too often looks at what we paid for a player in deciding his worth. That's not acting rationally. And it's bad for the club.
Serious respect for explaining the sunk cost fallacy correctly.

I don't 100% buy into the sunk cost fallacy across the board, but you just nailed it in one of the best examples that I've ever read.
 
I think this is the weakest aspect of our transfer policy. I think economists call it the "sunk cost fallacy." The concept is that we should not consider money already spent and gone when making decisions going forward. It doesn't matter how much we paid for Soldado. That money is spent. The only question should be: is he now and in the future worth more to us than we can get on the transfer market. It seems that Levy far too often looks at what we paid for a player in deciding his worth. That's not acting rationally. And it's bad for the club.

I disagree strongly with letting the "economics" of transactions be the only question.

How the club chooses to handle its players and transfers is hugely important for other reasons:

- I think it is important for motivation and the whole atmosphere of the club to show the playing staff that every player in the squad gets multiple chances and that they are not simply cattle (for the same reason I am strongly opposed to freezing players out, critisising individual players and demoting players to train with the youth team)
- And just maybe the team can get better as a team by traing together for thousands of hours rather than hundreds of hours

Besides on the "economics" model:

- Some formcurves can be long. A worst case scenario is buying players for good money and then systematically keep selling them at exactly the moment they are playing the worst and their values are lowest.
- The club decides to swap manager or the current manager decides to change the system - and voila, the out of favour player is up for the job (Fellaini..)
 
I disagree strongly with letting the "economics" of transactions be the only question.

How the club chooses to handle its players and transfers is hugely important for other reasons:

- I think it is important for motivation and the whole atmosphere of the club to show the playing staff that every player in the squad gets multiple chances and that they are not simply cattle (for the same reason I am strongly opposed to freezing players out, critisising individual players and demoting players to train with the youth team)
- And just maybe the team can get better as a team by traing together for thousands of hours rather than hundreds of hours

Besides on the "economics" model:

- Some formcurves can be long. A worst case scenario is buying players for good money and then systematically keep selling them at exactly the moment they are playing the worst and their values are lowest.
- The club decides to swap manager or the current manager decides to change the system - and voila, the out of favour player is up for the job (Fellaini..)

:adelol::adethumbup:

Let's face it, that is not how the world works. It is like staying in an abusive relationship for years and years hoping it will get better.

Like it or not, football is a cut-throat business. All this loyalty to players and patience to players by clubs is bullshit! The moment almost 90% of our players get a chance to jump ship to a better club with a higher salary, they will not think twice.

We can't stick with Paulinho hoping he will come good till the end of his contract. We have had enough time to assess his abilities. Poch and his team surely have seen that for the brand of football that they are trying, Paulinho is not a good fit. So we need to get rid and take a chance on someone else that will be a good fit.

I see plenty of players in that bracket, players who are not good enough for Spurs mainly due to their playing style and lack of concentration. Guys like Capoue, Paulinho, Chiriches, Ade, Soldado can all be sold and it completely doesn't affect our first team.

Every transfer made should be to improve the first team. You don't buy players to improve the bench. You buy players that can push the first teamers to the bench so that they step up to reclaim that spot!
 
I think this is the weakest aspect of our transfer policy. I think economists call it the "sunk cost fallacy." The concept is that we should not consider money already spent and gone when making decisions going forward. It doesn't matter how much we paid for Soldado. That money is spent. The only question should be: is he now and in the future worth more to us than we can get on the transfer market. It seems that Levy far too often looks at what we paid for a player in deciding his worth. That's not acting rationally. And it's bad for the club.


The problem with that is that a player isn't just shit and that's them forever - Adebayor playing for AVB isn't the same as Adebayor playing for Sherwood (or to prove AVB wrong).

There is potential embarrassment in letting Soldado leave for what would be a fair fee - he might go somewhere else and rediscover his scoring touch.
 
The problem with that is that a player isn't just shit and that's them forever - Adebayor playing for AVB isn't the same as Adebayor playing for Sherwood (or to prove AVB wrong).

There is potential embarrassment in letting Soldado leave for what would be a fair fee - he might go somewhere else and rediscover his scoring touch.
he may do but if he wasnt going to do it at spurs then it dont really matter. also, your system would mean u hang on to players who arent good enough or dont fit in to the system, on the off chance they improve a lot or a new manager comes in who likes them. thats a terrible way to run the club. & what about players with bad attitudes. u keep them in with the first team which can only be bad influence on the rest of the team. your system seems to be putting the player before the club. no matter how bad the player.
 
The problem with that is that a player isn't just shit and that's them forever - Adebayor playing for AVB isn't the same as Adebayor playing for Sherwood (or to prove AVB wrong).

There is potential embarrassment in letting Soldado leave for what would be a fair fee - he might go somewhere else and rediscover his scoring touch.

It's also unfair on the player, stock pilling players and not letting them play football must drive alot of them nuts, let Soldado go back to Spain and have a few more years of football and take whatever we can get for him.
 
he may do but if he wasnt going to do it at spurs then it dont really matter. also, your system would mean u hang on to players who arent good enough or dont fit in to the system, on the off chance they improve a lot or a new manager comes in who likes them. thats a terrible way to run the club. & what about players with bad attitudes. u keep them in with the first team which can only be bad influence on the rest of the team. your system seems to be putting the player before the club. no matter how bad the player.

It's not 'my system' - merely an example of why Levy doesn't cut his losses easily and that the "sunk cost fallacy" doesn't fit in with football as well as it does in other businesses.
 
It's also unfair on the player, stock pilling players and not letting them play football must drive alot of them nuts, let Soldado go back to Spain and have a few more years of football and take whatever we can get for him.

I don't think we should feel that sorry for the players being stuck in scenarios like this - the reason they want to sign long fixed term contracts in the first place is the security of the income.

I doubt Soldado will want to go back to Spain for a few more years when the salary he'll command will be far less than staying at Spurs until the end of his deal.
 
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