I can agree and think the Premier League is proof of that.
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Management Zero Debt
- Thread starter YidDriver
- Start date
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I have no problem with clubs being run at zero debt. I think they should have to. IMO, any club making an operating loss (IE Capex is allowable on things like stadia and training grounds) shouldnt be allowed to buy unless they sell first.
IMO, there should be a basic salary cap for footballers but limitless win bonus. might see a few less winston bogarde's in the game that way. (I have several revolutionary ideas. Long sleeves not allowed for defenders. baselayer sleeve length to be no longer than shirt sleeve length are amongst them)
IMO, there should be a basic salary cap for footballers but limitless win bonus. might see a few less winston bogarde's in the game that way. (I have several revolutionary ideas. Long sleeves not allowed for defenders. baselayer sleeve length to be no longer than shirt sleeve length are amongst them)
Well the detail accounts for the year ended 30th June, 2014 posted on OS.
Just a few highlights.
1. 40 mill of capital raised to Macon Inc pref shares as a related company (Levy and who ?) Guess the 40 mill assisted in paying down debt.
2. Profit before tax 80mill (2013 3.7mill) of which football trading 56.9mill (2013 0.96mill)
3. Profit after tax 65.3mill (2013 1.5mill)
4. Football trading (predominately football players) gain on sale of players 104mill (2013 26.3mill) Amortisation of players 39.8mill (2013 26.8mill) plus Write down of player value 10.2mill (2013 nil).
5. Player contract writedown of 10.2mill specifically relates to 3 players (not mentioned by name) to a carrying value of 44.9mill – smells like balance of Paulinho, Soldado, Lamela for not achieving contract milestones.
6. Wages increased by 4.5% to 100.4mill and employee numbers increased 3.3% to 380.
7. Directors payments 3.6mill of which though unnamed presumably Daniel Levy 2.166mill.
8. Redundancy and onerous employment contracts 4.66mill (2103 0.61mill) – i presume most of this would relate to AVB, Sherwood and friend settlements.
Just a few highlights.
1. 40 mill of capital raised to Macon Inc pref shares as a related company (Levy and who ?) Guess the 40 mill assisted in paying down debt.
2. Profit before tax 80mill (2013 3.7mill) of which football trading 56.9mill (2013 0.96mill)
3. Profit after tax 65.3mill (2013 1.5mill)
4. Football trading (predominately football players) gain on sale of players 104mill (2013 26.3mill) Amortisation of players 39.8mill (2013 26.8mill) plus Write down of player value 10.2mill (2013 nil).
5. Player contract writedown of 10.2mill specifically relates to 3 players (not mentioned by name) to a carrying value of 44.9mill – smells like balance of Paulinho, Soldado, Lamela for not achieving contract milestones.
6. Wages increased by 4.5% to 100.4mill and employee numbers increased 3.3% to 380.
7. Directors payments 3.6mill of which though unnamed presumably Daniel Levy 2.166mill.
8. Redundancy and onerous employment contracts 4.66mill (2103 0.61mill) – i presume most of this would relate to AVB, Sherwood and friend settlements.
Well according to the detail accounts we do have loans for specific purposes about 35mill. it is just that we have 38.5mill of cash.
So net cash 3.5mill which is good but pretty skinny to deal with the commitments for player payment instalments.
So net cash 3.5mill which is good but pretty skinny to deal with the commitments for player payment instalments.
Year end accs
1.Player book value 122.3mill (2013 73.2mill)
2. Average wage cost 2014 264k (2013 261k)
3. Europa League prizemoney & gate 9.2mill (2013 10.4mill)
4. Capital Cup prizemoney & gate 3.2mill (2013 0.9mill)
1.Player book value 122.3mill (2013 73.2mill)
2. Average wage cost 2014 264k (2013 261k)
3. Europa League prizemoney & gate 9.2mill (2013 10.4mill)
4. Capital Cup prizemoney & gate 3.2mill (2013 0.9mill)
Hi Shawry, can you (or anyone else) give me the link to these latest figures, as I can't see them on the OS.
Thanks very much for this Blanchflower. Assuming this has been recently put on the Os, why the hell haven't the club informed us supporters about it. You'd think it would be a matter of course and courtesy regarding such an important document.
Looking at the figures, the first thing I need to get my head round is the business of the players we bought.
We spent nearly as much we took in re transfers during the period IIRC. The 'Super Seven' costing more than we got in for Bale et al.
So am I right in thinking these costs appear in the amortisation figues, ie not the full cost but but the part of the cost that is to be written down for that financial year?
If this is the case will we be living with some very heavy amortisation figures for some years to come?
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Ah yes, I guess it just slipped Levy's mind that morning that he is to inform you of all club-related matters, no matter how small.
Did you get the memo about Karen selling a Spurs gnome in the Harlow store at a 10% discount? Despicable. Apparently means we can't offer Eriksen a new contract now and he's being offered around.
Bloody Karen...
Yeah, I saw that synopsis and have been eagerly awaiting the fuller figures (sad I know) since then.
Just posting the annual report on the site and not telling us supporters about it is nowhere near good enough IMO.
I wouldn't even know about this but for the 'due diligence' of your good selves (Shawry and you).
Not only me, but after reading Shawry's post, I not only went to the OS, but did a forum round as I expected a lot of/some comment on such an important matter. But there was none, zero, nada, just like our current debt
So a lot of people, who I know like me are interested in such matters won't be aware the full figures have been posted, till news creeps thru on 'tinternet, not because of what the club should have done.
Greaves357_bestever
I'm no accountant but I believe the way a players book value is listed is they depreciate over the course of their contract.So for example you sign Bale for £5m on a five year contract and he depreciates by £1m a season - you sell him in season 4 for £90m and that's put down as a profit of £89m rather than £85m.
You sign Lamela for £30m and in year 1 he's listed as being worth £30m.
Hence you can end up with huge accounting profits if you trade players a lot.
Hi again, yep I'm no accountant either, and hence need all the help I can get on these matters
So for example you sign Bale for £5m on a five year contract and he depreciates by £1m a season - you sell him in season 4 for £90m and that's put down as a profit of £89m rather than £85m.
You sign Lamela for £30m and in year 1 he's listed as being worth £30m.
Hence you can end up with huge accounting profits if you trade players a lot.
But from my limited understanding I agree with what you're saying, so that although the Super 7 cost say £100m, that cost will only represented say as £20/25m.
This I think solves the mystery of the Standard article where it said player purchases weren't included in the figures, when we got the 'mini report' last month. They were quoting a club spokesman, and I couldn't work out why this would be the case. There's a debate on it in this thread IIRC. This was a key reason why I was waiting for these figures so I get to understand (maybe) what was going on.
Would you like an email? Personal Tweet? Phone call? Text? Maybe a table for two with Levy at The Ritz so he can break the news over a bottle of Rioja?
Hi again, yep I'm no accountant either, and hence need all the help I can get on these matters
But from my limited understanding I agree with what you're saying, so that although the Super 7 cost say £100m, that cost will only represented say as £20/25m.
This I think solves the mystery of the Standard article where it said player purchases weren't included in the figures, when we got the 'mini report' last month. They were quoting a club spokesman, and I couldn't work out why this would be the case. There's a debate on it in this thread IIRC. This was a key reason why I was waiting for these figures so I get to understand (maybe) what was going on.
I think the full cost of the transfer is accounted for - but they appear as an asset for the same amount.
Hi Shawry, a small but important error in your otherwise excellent summaries.
The £3.2m figure was both domestic cup comps. I thought when I saw it in your post that seemed too much for the Cap Cup, especially as you don't get any prize money for a quarter final exit. Indeed AFAIK we didn't even get any prize money as losing finalists this season. Only the winner gets prize money, a whopping £100,000 which doesn't even pay the weekly wage of many a Prem player.
The FA Cup however does pay prize money even for a 4th round exit such as ours, and given also that was at the Emirates, we would have got a stack of money from gate receipts that day as well.
Yep the full cost must surely be accounted for somewhere, hence the problem re the Standard article saying/implying it wasn't. But I think the answer to that angle lies in the mysteries of amortisation.
I agree too the purchased players will be shown as assets (intangible ones I believe).
Also sure physical cash has to be accounted for, both incoming and outgoing. This I know shows up in a different way in accounts, but maybe is reflected in the increase in our cash funds for the financial year.
One stand out figure in the accounts for me is our net assets have risen to a staggering £183m, that's up an incredible £105m from the previous year. Indeed for years our net assets have fluctuated between £70-81m, and now this incredible rise.
Some £50m is related to increase in player value I think, but the rest, mmm, I don't know.
Some £50m is related to increase in player value I think, but the rest, mmm, I don't know.