Was the 1980s 5 year European ban for English clubs justified?

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Spurs_1987

Spurs_1987

I've just been thinking about this lately, Heysel was a disaster yes, and English fans were to blame, but how many incidents have the likes of Spanish, Italian and Russian clubs been involved in (although thankfully none with the deaths to my knowledge) and there hasn't been even a hint of a ban like that? For example, I don't think ANYTHING happened to Galatasaray when their fans stabbed two of their Leeds counterparts to death, if it had been the opposite way around Leeds would likely have been thrown out of the tournament sharpish.

I honestly think it's because English clubs were mostly dominant in Europe during the 70s and early 80s, and UEFA really didn't like that, as after the ban expired, it took English clubs quite a few years to catch up again, especially in the European Cup/Champions League.

Clubs like Everton, who would have been in the European Cup after winning the title, potentially Oxford Utd who won the League Cup during that run (did you get a European place for winning that back then?) and ourselves, who missed out on UEFA Cup's during that time were really hurt especially by it.

It's a question that will likely never be answered, but if the Heysel disaster had been reversed, and English fans were the ones killed, would the Italians have got a ban like that?
 
No.

Everton were starting to dominate English football around that time and were denied European football by their hated neighbours and they never really recovered elite status after that.

LFC fans murdered those Italians yet they somewhow remain the media favourites & can do no wrong.
 
I agree it should have just been Liverpool that got banned.

You can't ban an entire league for the actions of one club its draconian.

And while I appreciate hooliganism was rife in our game in the mid eighties its naive to think it was just happening here, it was already all over Europe.

Most of the time when English fans went abroad the locals were rubbing their hands together for a crack at the English.

To be clear we weren't saints ourselves, it was a nasty culture and it had gotten out of hand by 1985, but it certainly wasn't just the English.

I also think it was partly a calculated move by UEFA pressured by European clubs, they saw an opportunity to end English dominance in Europe and they took it.

When those Turkish fans knifed to death the Leeds fans were all clubs in Turkey blanket banned? nope. Were Galatassaray even banned? Not that I recall, correct me if i'm wrong.
 
The ridiculous thing is Spurs fans still get treated incredibly badly even now, despite us probably being one of the best behaved fans in europe - whilst other fans turn up at our ground and have the red carpet rolled out for them whilst completely revelling in being known as football hooligans.
 
As a Liverpool fan I thought it was unfair to ban every English club. I never went to that game myself but I know quite a few people who did. While not trying to excuse anything that happened people told me horrific stories regarding the condition of the stadium . For instance people without ticket actually kicked holes in the stadium walls. There was lumps of concrete lying on the terraces where steps had been broken and the concrete just left. Checking of tickets almost non existent . Why every club was banned is a mystery to me and the English were not alone in the hooligan stakes but seemed to carry the can for everything that had happened up to that point. A black night for football and an even blacker night for Liverpool FC
 
I hate Scousers said:
When those Turkish fans knifed to death the Leeds fans were all clubs in Turkey blanket banned? nope. Were Galatasaray even banned? Not that I recall, correct me if i'm wrong.
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No, all that happened was their fans were banned from the 2nd leg in England. To which the Galatasaray Vice-President said that Leeds were "turning murders into an advantage", showing completely zero empathy to the victims.

They weren't even fined a penny, let alone banned from Europe.
 
In short, definitely not. Blanket ban on all clubs absolute bollocks. Denied clubs like Coventry and Oxford their day in the sun, and that Everton team could've won the European cup
 
It was like being back at school, 1 person misbehaved and we all got detention - not fair IMO.
Everton bore the brunt of that unfairness, as in those days there wasn't a top four trophy. When I come to think about it, Everton are quite Spursey.
 
johnamiri said:
As a Liverpool fan I thought it was unfair to ban every English club. I never went to that game myself but I know quite a few people who did. While not trying to excuse anything that happened people told me horrific stories regarding the condition of the stadium . For instance people without ticket actually kicked holes in the stadium walls. There was lumps of concrete lying on the terraces where steps had been broken and the concrete just left. Checking of tickets almost non existent . Why every club was banned is a mystery to me and the English were not alone in the hooligan stakes but seemed to carry the can for everything that had happened up to that point. A black night for football and an even blacker night for Liverpool FC
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With respect mate, thats bollocks. It's a well known fact that Liverpool fans broke into finals in Rome, Instanbul and Brussels as well as Wembley v Everton. I'm sure you are a decent bloke but I am sick to death of the saintly image given to one of the worst set of fans in this country. I've been going to football for nigh on 50 years and never felt the need to kick my way in a stadium..Voiding the season will be karma.
 
johnamiri said:
A black night for football and an even blacker night for Liverpool FC
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Typical Liverpool fan, turning it to be about them.

I would imagine it was a very black night for those 39 fans (and their families) that died that night.
The 39 people killed were 32 Italians (including two minors), four Belgians, two French fans and one from Northern Ireland.
 
JohnH said:
Typical Liverpool fan, turning it to be about them.

I would imagine it was a very black night for those 39 fans (and their families) that died that night.
The 39 people killed were 32 Italians (including two minors), four Belgians, two French fans and one from Northern Ireland.
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Never forget.
 
I think the severity of the punishment reflected what was probably the very poor reputation - rightly or wrongly - of English fans for hooliganism at the time.
I did think it was very harsh that other clubs suffered as a result.
 
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Sir Alfred Conn said:
With respect mate, thats bollocks. It's a well known fact that Liverpool fans broke into finals in Rome, Instanbul and Brussels as well as Wembley v Everton. I'm sure you are a decent bloke but I am sick to death of the saintly image given to one of the worst set of fans in this country. I've been going to football for nigh on 50 years and never felt the need to kick my way in a stadium..Voiding the season will be karma.
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In the 60s I went to watch Liverpool at WHL and someone threw a cup of red hot tea over me for nothing I was a kid of 16. Another time we got chased by a gang of Spurs fans . Never caught me but my mate got a bit of a beating. Thats how it was then. I am not so stupid as to label all Spurs fans as morons or hooligans. All clubs have idiots .
 
I think it was harsh all English clubs being banned, but I think heysel provided UEFA with the opportunity to remove all English clubs due , not only Heysel but lots of other incidents.

I know English clubs reputations meant they often did not start the trouble but we were hardly great ambassadors in Europe. I have heard feyenoord was a war zone when we visited, the belguims did not hold us in high regard and we did run Real Madrid fans all over the top tier in their ground ( provoked I know)
 
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