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Manager Jose Mourinho

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Some of you are also somewhat neglecting the effect of not having a crowd there.

It is clear that some of our players seem to have concentration issues quite regularly even when there are 60 thousand people screaming at them and trying to gee them up.

The fact that some of them are struggling with what might amount to a televised training match psychologically isn't that surprising. Questions about mentality? 100% correct IMO.

To throw Mourinho under the metaphorical bus with everything that has happened before he got here transfer wise and since he arrived with the massive change due to the pandemic is completely ridiculous, especially after a defeat where a terrible decision played a massive role against a well organised, hard working team who have conceded less goals at home than we have this season.
 
A guess a shining light is the fact that most of the clubs modern Mourinho has managed and have gone on to either look better or perform better since he left them.

Madrid went on to win the Champions League and Copa del ray the year after he left and a further 3 champions league trophies.

Chelsea won the league the year after he left. And the FA Cup and Europa League since.

Man Utd haven't won anything yet but look a whole lot better under Solsjsker and could be qualifying for the CL and get a trophy under their belt by the end of the season.
 
To me Mou wants us to play compact at the back with a narrow line then break away at pace on the counter. Issue is that he's being held back by not having a proper RB CDM or CBs who can pass and the issues with Ndombele really haven't helped.

If in the summer we can get a true CDM and a better ball playing CB next to Dier feeding into Ndombele allowing him to then feed a front 4 of Lo Celso Son Berg and Kane we will see a much better side.

Last night Lo Celso had a poor game and was basically swamped by Sheffield as they knew that he was the only who could get us forward. They wasn't pressing Sissoko all game but as soon as Lo Celso got it they was all over him.

It's absolutely no coincidence that in that 30 minute period Sissoko and that muppet Aurier was taken off we had the ball in the net 3 times. With Ndombele on we actually spread the ball out and Lo Celso couldn't be swamped anymore as they actually had to mark someone else. Lamela also contributed to it as as well tbf moving Moura out of that front 3 helped a lot as he's also useless unless he has space to run into.

But I do think Mou made the mistake of keeping Moura on and taking Berg off in all honesty
spot on mate
 
So many times you hear about how rubbish the players are when a manager is failing. Before Poch came the coatings that Dembele, Vertonghen, Rose and Walker were getting from the fans was phenominal. The same with Dawson, Ekotto, Jenas, Huddlestone before Redknapp came. Yes they both had to weed out the chaff but good managers make average players look good and good players look great. They improve the side to cover up the weaknessess. Who can see that happening now? Who has improved in the last 29 games?
Good post. It’s a very valid point. It’s just not Mourinhos style.

Since his first stint at Chelsea, can anyone name a player that Mourinho has actually taken and improved at a team he’s managed?
Inter Milan? That was a team of warriors but no superstars or vastly improved players despite all they won.
Real Madrid? Ozil at a push?
Chelsea second stint? No one.
United? No one.

Mourinho makes teams well organized and hard to beat, but improving players on an individual level is most certainly not one of his strengths as a coach anymore. If anything recent evidence could even be used to argue his coaching style makes players worse...
 
Yes after Poch ditched the high press he didn't seem to know how to play either. And yes Dembele and in form Ericsen is incredibly missed. But I still, after 6 months can't see how Mourinho wants to play. I wish I could.

Okay, then we agree on something. Thats cool.

Actually while being on lunch, I started to think about your question.
You are kinda right. There is / hasn't been a specific way or philosophy up to now. I think he is trying to play more or less pragmatic football that is based on what we have for now. I think you must agree that just 1 window in Jan is not too large chance to leave your mark on the squad.

I just hope that in the future he will be able to make the adjustment and start working more towards some kind of approach / more clearly developed plan.
 
A guess a shining light is the fact that most of the clubs modern Mourinho has managed and have gone on to either look better or perform better since he left them.

Madrid went on to win the Champions League and Copa del ray the year after he left and a further 3 champions league trophies.

Chelsea won the league the year after he left. And the FA Cup and Europa League since.

Man Utd haven't won anything yet but look a whole lot better under Solsjsker and could be qualifying for the CL and get a trophy under their belt by the end of the season.
Ironically, Jose does his best work at smaller clubs, his biggest successes have been Porto, Chelsea (making them a big club) and Inter. His poorest spells have been Real Madrid and Man Ure. We should suit him to the ground.
 
I agree

Nearly every cross he put in low which was cleared by the first defender

Another poster mentioned the fact that the Blades knew that our FBs couldn’t cross and were no danger so surrendered the flanks and packed the middle of the field bogging down Gio and Bergwijn etc so Harry and Sonny we’re denied any decent service
Sissoko going forward incapable of providing anything
Moura had a couple of decent runs but continually getting fouled didn’t help
Ref had a poor game but we looked devoid of ideas inspiration or leadership
You could get rid of José which I know you want but would it make any difference with another manager?

Something looks badly wrong as the players mostly didn’t seem to care and they’ve written the season off and it isn’t all down to José as I think this malaise started with our players long before
I hoped that getting shot of Rose and Eriksen might have helped but it doesn’t seem to have made a difference
No pride
No passion
No fight

Worrying times and if they can’t lift themselves for the forthcoming NLD we have real problems
So here comes the stuck record again. He is one of the best FB crossers of the ball, only Doherty has more assists from open play as a defender (more then TAA, who's output is from set-pieces). It's not poor crossing, it's low percentage chance creation. Crosses are low percentage ergo not many goals are scored from them.

We need to move on from this "he's rubbish" shit when his numbers are 1 short of being the best in the league at the job of crossing.

But you are correct, if this is the only attacking phase we rely on it really is easy to defend against it.

Of course, it will make a difference, getting a manager that actually drills attacking phases is better than one that doesn't. This is the difference between Klopp, Pepp, Poch (and many more) and Jose. Their attacking play is highly structured, Jose leaves it up to his attackers.

If the players don't care (I don't believe for a second this is the case) then it's down to the manager, it's literally in his job description.

Can you see the scum's identity under Arteta? I can and he's only been there 9 less games than Jose and he too has loads of injuries and suspect players.
 
Okay, then we agree on something. Thats cool.

Actually while being on lunch, I started to think about your question.
You are kinda right. There is / hasn't been a specific way or philosophy up to now. I think he is trying to play more or less pragmatic football that is based on what we have for now. I think you must agree that just 1 window in Jan is not too large chance to leave your mark on the squad.

I just hope that in the future he will be able to make the adjustment and start working more towards some kind of approach / more clearly developed plan.
There is just no sign of a plan, there easnt really at United and there hasnt been with us. Also whatever he gets in the summer it will not be enough. I dare say he will likely have a point but wheras some make do and mend Mourinho will see an excuse. I just see no way he will make it past October/November be it results, a falling out with Levy over transfers or likely both.
 
All true.

This didn't start under Jose, it's been going on for the better part of 3 years, masked by a miracle CL run. The players have given up, they're done mentally and physically and honestly just not good enough.

We have too many players without a brain and all physical, or all technique and no mental strength... the squad is imbalanced and lacks a spine now that our old one has aged out and been sold.

What do we want in our midfielders? None of them are similar players and none of them fit together.... Sissoko is a runner with the worst technique and composure ever, Winks is a water carrier, Lo Celso isn't even a central midfielder, Ndombele is a fat luxury player and who else do we have? Dier?

Our full backs? Oh we've only got 2.... Aurier is OK offensively but a liability at times but could be good in a back 5/3, Davies is a fucking nothing player who wouldn't look out of place at Bristol.
The less said about the central defenders the better... fucking donkeys all of em.

All we have are tricky wingers (who honestly can't pass well... they're all kick and run, even Son) and Kane. Fucking retarded recruitment for years.
A guess a shining light is the fact that most of the clubs modern Mourinho has managed and have gone on to either look better or perform better since he left them.

Madrid went on to win the Champions League and Copa del ray the year after he left and a further 3 champions league trophies.

Chelsea won the league the year after he left. And the FA Cup and Europa League since.

Man Utd haven't won anything yet but look a whole lot better under Solsjsker and could be qualifying for the CL and get a trophy under their belt by the end of the season.

You can make that argument for all clubs when a manager leaves. That's like saying Poch was crap because Espanyol and we have looked better since he left a manager not sacked for doing well mate.

Also Inter, Porto have been nothing without him since he went. He won 2 trophies and finished second at United and they haven't been close to that since.

Chelsea fair play I think he fucked it there but that squad then threw Conte under the bus also and Madrid are just Madrid simple as there always gonna win stuff
 
Apologies for a long one, but it merits it.



Firstly, some context - I’ve thought Jose was overrated for a while now. Ever since his last title winning season at Chelsea. Let’s talk why......



System



Football evolves, it always does. Most managers find their methodology outdated at some point. It happened to league winners like Clough and George Graham, it’s happened to exceptional managers like Wenger and Capello, and it has happened to Jose. Only Fergie has been able to adapt systems and tactics over a split of generations as football as modernised.



Jose has done zero of that. His ideal team and style is EXACTLY as it was at Chelsea in 2004.



  • flat back 4
  • Physical
  • 4231
  • Full backs mostly pinned
  • Big man up top
  • Wide forwards


The team selection and tactics have not changed since 2004. He wants exactly the same setup now in spite of football changing. The system (4231) was revolutionary at the time. It caught everyone out and credit to Jose for that. But he is behind the curve tactically now.



Tactics



Jose has never had a clue how to set a team up tactically going forward. Defensively, he’s great. He knows what to do. Attacking wise, he’s always relied on exceptional forward players to produce individual brilliance. His teams are never better attacking wise because of his management, and I’d ask anyone to challenge that.



The modern game and the way the top teams play is so far away from where Jose is at. It is based upon press, winning the ball high and “strangling” the opponents. Jose doesn’t subscribe to that style and never will. There is one top team across all the top leagues playing Jose ball these days (Atletico). That should tell you how archaic his tactics are.



Success



Clearly it’s impossible to attack Jose’s record of trophy success, but some context is needed. He was a failure at Utd. You can talk about his trophies of course, but he was sacked because he was a failure. I firmly believe in getting the right culture into a club and having consistent progression. If we do that trophies will come I’m sure of it. We also don’t have the incredible resources that his last 5 clubs have had. We have a much more restricted budget.



Since Inter, have we really seen him “mastermind” a trophy success or has it all been based upon having superior players?



Aftermath



Every club the bloke has left since the turn of the decade have been left with a path of destruction. Unhappy players, disrupted culture, negative feeling.



When Utd fans are delighted to have a mediocre manager like Ole instead of Jose you need to see why.



He will leave this club in ruins, and unlike Man U who have the power to tell Pogba he isn’t leaving, our top players will be asking for a one way ticket out of here.



Alienating Players



Don’t forget this guy didn’t think KDB, Salah or Lukaku were good enough at Chelsea. He scape goated Pogba and Hazard at times in his recent runs.



Ndombele has struggled for us. He has fitness issues and hasn’t applied himself appropriately by all accounts. But fuck me there’s a hell of a player in there! You can just see him going elsewhere and being a top class player. Instead of trying to figure out how to get the best out of him, he’s scape goating him, like he did Pogba. He always has to blame someone else. Will this happen with Son or Kane next? Don’t put it beyond him.



Further to this, the reason Jose so often falls out with top talented players is because he doesn’t want to play progressive football. I vividly remember the CL semi final Chelsea lost to Atletico, where he blamed Hazard for a bad attitude after. He was effectively asking the man to play full back against a pretty negative team themselves. He gave the game away.



He did the same for us this year against Leipzig. He has no plan other that to frustrate the other side.



Transfers



A lot of people asking for him to be given big money by Levy but I wouldn’t trust him with my pocket change personally. Look at his Utd transfers, they haven’t held up well.



Levy



A lot of people on here blaming Levy for our current predicament. It’s a different conversation for me and one I don’t want to dwell on. But whether you think he’s neglected the squad or not, we should not be getting tactically outsmarted by Sheff U.



I know this guy is all wrong for our club. I know this ends in tears. I just hope the club realise sooner rather that later too. We need to rethink what we’ve done here, and quickly.
 
You can make that argument for all clubs when a manager leaves. That's like saying Poch was crap because Espanyol and we have looked better since he left a manager not sacked for doing well mate.

Also Inter, Porto have been nothing without him since he went. He won 2 trophies and finished second at United and they haven't been close to that since.

Chelsea fair play I think he fucked it there but that squad then threw Conte under the bus also and Madrid are just Madrid simple as there always gonna win stuff

I only used Madrid, Chelsea and Utd as those were clubs where it was clear his methods were starting to look outdated and he fucked off the fanbase.

He's a god to Porto and Inter Milan fans and left before he could properly piss them off - and his tactics weren't particularly out dated at that stage.
 
Well yes to break away at the counter is good. It's not much of tactics though. How do we attack against a park the bus team? Low defence and break away? How to handle transition from defence to attack against a team that puts pressure on. How to defend against a team that defends low and breaks away?

There isn't any movement in attack, except maybe when on a break. No one to pass, no people running to break up defence, nothing. No deliberate losing balls in tough places for the other team where pressure easily can take it back and create dangerous attacks. It's like watching 10 year olds playing games ball. This is on Mourinho and he doesn't have a clue as far as I can see. I think the modern footballing world have left him behind. .
The infuriating thing is had we actually worked structure into our counter-attacks we would have been far more potent and score far more goals under Jose.

Watch Atleti on the counter (not this season) but in other seasons gone by, they play through the thirds of the pitch (they aren't hoofers), have players drawing defenders away with their runs off the ball, others crossing over causing confusion with the oppo unsure whether to go with the runner or not.

They know situational plays, so if the brake is down the left channel the player on the ball knows that there will be a run to a specific part of the pitch (could be near post or back post but he'll know what the move is and so do the other players around him) when people say attackers are telepathic it's not because they have learned how to read each other's minds, it's because they've practised a phase of play numerous times.

Our counter-attacks are all over the place, players running alongside each other, no one making a run to draw away a defender, they are simply on the cuff moments.
 
So here comes the stuck record again. He is one of the best FB crossers of the ball, only Doherty has more assists from open play as a defender (more then TAA, who's output is from set-pieces). It's not poor crossing, it's low percentage chance creation. Crosses are low percentage ergo not many goals are scored from them.

We need to move on from this "he's rubbish" shit when his numbers are 1 short of being the best in the league at the job of crossing.

But you are correct, if this is the only attacking phase we rely on it really is easy to defend against it.

Of course, it will make a difference, getting a manager that actually drills attacking phases is better than one that doesn't. This is the difference between Klopp, Pepp, Poch (and many more) and Jose. Their attacking play is highly structured, Jose leaves it up to his attackers.

If the players don't care (I don't believe for a second this is the case) then it's down to the manager, it's literally in his job description.

Can you see the scum's identity under Arteta? I can and he's only been there 9 less games than Jose and he too has loads of injuries and suspect players.

So it’s both managers fault that they don’t care?

Aurier has many opportunities to put a decent cross in but didn’t
Simple as and I don’t give a fuck about statistics saying otherwise
He’s a fucking donkey

Blades seemed to find players from crosses so why couldn’t we and didn’t they score from them?
Our totally inept defence helped them of course and I’m talking about the lot of them

You can’t blame a manager for alleged PL defenders standing watching unmarked attackers and not closing them down!

You and bus-conductor bus-conductor seem to think that all we have to do is get rid of Sissoko and Jose and things will be rosy!

Don’t think so
 
The infuriating thing is had we actually worked structure into our counter-attacks we would have been far more potent and score far more goals under Jose.

Watch Atleti on the counter (not this season) but in other seasons gone by, they play through the thirds of the pitch (they aren't hoofers), have players drawing defenders away with their runs off the ball, others crossing over causing confusion with the oppo unsure whether to go with the runner or not.

They know situational plays, so if the brake is down the left channel the player on the ball knows that there will be a run to a specific part of the pitch (could be near post or back post but he'll know what the move is and so do the other players around him) when people say attackers are telepathic it's not because they have learned how to read each other's minds, it's because they've practised a phase of play numerous times.

Our counter-attacks are all over the place, players running alongside each other, no one making a run to draw away a defender, they are simply on the cuff moments.

I agree. It looks like there is no one to pass on our counters even if we are 4 and they 3.
 
So it’s both managers fault that they don’t care?

Aurier has many opportunities to put a decent cross in but didn’t
Simple as and I don’t give a fuck about statistics saying otherwise
He’s a fucking donkey

Blades seemed to find players from crosses so why couldn’t we and didn’t they score from them?
Our totally inept defence helped them of course and I’m talking about the lot of them

You can’t blame a manager for alleged PL defenders standing watching unmarked attackers and not closing them down!

You and bus-conductor bus-conductor seem to think that all we have to do is get rid of Sissoko and Jose and things will be rosy!

Don’t think so
José, Sissoko, Aurier, Lucas would be a start. Get a coach in that has a vision, a plan and the ability to teach the players how to execute the plan. And a few players that can actually hit another player with a pass. And that aren't crazy (Aurier).
 
So it’s both managers fault that they don’t care?

Aurier has many opportunities to put a decent cross in but didn’t
Simple as and I don’t give a fuck about statistics saying otherwise
He’s a fucking donkey

Blades seemed to find players from crosses so why couldn’t we and didn’t they score from them?
Our totally inept defence helped them of course and I’m talking about the lot of them

You can’t blame a manager for alleged PL defenders standing watching unmarked attackers and not closing them down!

You and bus-conductor bus-conductor seem to think that all we have to do is get rid of Sissoko and Jose and things will be rosy!

Don’t think so

I definitely don't think it's as simple as that, as I just said to you elsewhere, I just don't think Aurier is the biggest issue. He's pretty much doing what's being asked of him, just the same as Tripper was before him. There aren't a load of world class RB's out there that are brilliant going forward and brilliant defenders.

I was all for upgrading Trippier, I'm all for upgrading Aurier. I just think it would be a lot easier to upgrade people like Sissoko, Rose, Davies, Moura, Lamela etc.
 
I only used Madrid, Chelsea and Utd as those were clubs where it was clear his methods were starting to look outdated and he fucked off the fanbase.

He's a god to Porto and Inter Milan fans and left before he could properly piss them off - and his tactics weren't particularly out dated at that stage.

Like I say mate Madrid and Chelsea have got a lot off managers the boot as have that United team since Fergie left tbf.

Mourinho obviously ain't the greatest man manager but the reason Chelsea and United have improved since Mou left is because the cleared out the toxic dressing room not because off the replacements who have both basically done the same thing. In getting rid off older toxic voices in the dressing room and bringing in young hungry players with a point to prove.

Like what we did with Poch and I hope we are gonna go with Mou now the squads had it's day and needs gutting and Mourinho deserves at least a year to do it before we start writing him off IMO
 
Like I say mate Madrid and Chelsea have got a lot off managers the boot as have that United team since Fergie left tbf.

Mourinho obviously ain't the greatest man manager but the reason Chelsea and United have improved since Mou left is because the cleared out the toxic dressing room not because off the replacements who have both basically done the same thing. In getting rid off older toxic voices in the dressing room and bringing in young hungry players with a point to prove.

Like what we did with Poch and I hope we are gonna go with Mou now the squads had it's day and needs gutting and Mourinho deserves at least a year to do it before we start writing him off IMO

I've always said he deserves a summer.

I still honestly don't see any difference between the Pochettino Spurs I've seen this season and the Mourinho Spurs.

Still playing a shitty 4231, still playing Aurier high up with space behind, still playing Sissoko in central midfield etc - almost as if Mourinho is sticking to what the players have known up until the summer where he'll then make the changes he needs, get players in, get rid of the ones that don't suit his new plan etc.

But we'll see.
 
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