Combatting racism in football

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You are ignorant willfully or otherwise, as evidenced in your posts. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of perspective. The good news is the report has been received very well by those it focussed on, the comms and co-comms guys. They appear to be open to the idea of learning and understanding more about it. It's really that simple, it doesn't even mean that they will be even able to change some of the descriptive they use but it makes them aware that they might be using them. It starts here though, being open to the possibilities that what they say might be reinforcing a stereotype without even knowing that they are.

There are some people who hold the opinion that the earth is flat, ignorant or an informed opinion?

As Tyler says, he works with loads of co-comms guys and not one of them has ever been trained to do that job, it's great that as a result of this report that there will be some training now.
why must you always polarise everything?

I'm not fucking ignorant at all, I have opinions and make choices, I'm not a gullible mug. So stop it with that shit OK?

Good for them, if thats what the commentators guild wants to do and they think it will make a better commentary, then thats up to them. I have my own opinion, on it and I don't see why I should be insulted for doing so, particularly as its such a nuanced issue, I doubt anyone will care until some poor mug says that player x runs with power and pace etc - and then some twitter based backlash gets the poor fucker sacked.

I'm fed up of this loud voice from a tiny minority (mostly seemingly white people) who want to bitch about everything, irrespective of how pointless it is.

I'm glad you are so pleased with this landmark sea change in race relations, I hope that TV commentaries will be all the more satisfying for you.
 
why must you always polarise everything?

I'm not fucking ignorant at all, I have opinions and make choices, I'm not a gullible mug. So stop it with that shit OK?

Good for them, if thats what the commentators guild wants to do and they think it will make a better commentary, then thats up to them. I have my own opinion, on it and I don't see why I should be insulted for doing so, particularly as its such a nuanced issue, I doubt anyone will care until some poor mug says that player x runs with power and pace etc - and then some twitter based backlash gets the poor fucker sacked.

I'm fed up of this loud voice from a tiny minority (mostly seemingly white people) who want to bitch about everything, irrespective of how pointless it is.

I'm glad you are so pleased with this landmark sea change in race relations, I hope that TV commentaries will be all the more satisfying for you.
It's not about whether the commentary will be "better", that's a wholly subjective matter (I can't stand most TV comms for loads of reasons). You've already drawn your line in the sand with your ignorance on this matter though, as this is your argument:
1. You think using the descriptive terms will "get a commentator sacked" - NO IT WILL NOT!
2. You think that by making commentators aware of the language they use is "a path to the anodyne and vanilla commentary". IT'S NOT.
3. You seem to think the report suggests to remove certain words from ever being uttered, it has NOTHING to do with it.

Being called ignorant isn't an insult Mick! I'm constantly ignorant about numerous things and all of the time, go look up its meaning.

To acknowledge your own ignorance is liberating because it's the beginning part of education (if you chose it) which is a highly enjoyable experience. I have a black family (I'm white) but I'm totally ignorant on most things concerning race, especially the history of race and absolutely on the history of this countries involvement in the slave trade, I've spent most of this lockdown, thanks to the BLM movement, immersed in books given to me by my own children who are far more educated than on the subject - I'm really enjoying it, and can't get enough of it, it's fascinating. But my ignorance on this matter was willful, not just blissful because outside of a handful of Hollywood films I've never once felt the need to educate myself on it. That's pretty fucked given the identity of my kids, but it also highlights my privilege of a whiteman and in your own words that must make me "weak, corrupt or hapless white person" for listening to such utter nonsense.
 
Fascinated by recent talks in football... Black people are 3% of the population, yet 30% of the premier league. Seems like Asians and whites are being discriminated against, doesn't it?
 
It's not about whether the commentary will be "better", that's a wholly subjective matter (I can't stand most TV comms for loads of reasons). You've already drawn your line in the sand with your ignorance on this matter though, as this is your argument:
1. You think using the descriptive terms will "get a commentator sacked" - NO IT WILL NOT!
2. You think that by making commentators aware of the language they use is "a path to the anodyne and vanilla commentary". IT'S NOT.
3. You seem to think the report suggests to remove certain words from ever being uttered, it has NOTHING to do with it.

Being called ignorant isn't an insult Mick! I'm constantly ignorant about numerous things and all of the time, go look up its meaning.

To acknowledge your own ignorance is liberating because it's the beginning part of education (if you chose it) which is a highly enjoyable experience. I have a black family (I'm white) but I'm totally ignorant on most things concerning race, especially the history of race and absolutely on the history of this countries involvement in the slave trade, I've spent most of this lockdown, thanks to the BLM movement, immersed in books given to me by my own children who are far more educated than on the subject - I'm really enjoying it, and can't get enough of it, it's fascinating. But my ignorance on this matter was willful, not just blissful because outside of a handful of Hollywood films I've never once felt the need to educate myself on it. That's pretty fucked given the identity of my kids, but it also highlights my privilege of a whiteman and in your own words that must make me "weak, corrupt or hapless white person" for listening to such utter nonsense.
I'm not ignorant about the things I believe in, because they are my beliefs.
Have you not seen the wolf pack hounding of people who fall foul of the new speak deference and how broadcasters are hounded for perceived failures to comply with the BLM tsunami of guilting people from hundreds of years ago and the attempt to eradicate the achievements of people who built Britain?
I'm glad that you feel empowered and cleansed through your education, but would suggest that you stop calling people ignorant because they dont view things from the same angle that you do.
I disagree with your belief that this report will benefit people of African origin through the implementation of sanitizing commentary on football matches. That belief does not make me ignorant.
Try to consider the fact that your wholehearted buy in, to the point of insulting people who dont traipse behind you, may well be a demonstration of your ignorance of this matter as well.
 
I'm not ignorant about the things I believe in, because they are my beliefs.
Have you not seen the wolf pack hounding of people who fall foul of the new speak deference and how broadcasters are hounded for perceived failures to comply with the BLM tsunami of guilting people from hundreds of years ago and the attempt to eradicate the achievements of people who built Britain?
I'm glad that you feel empowered and cleansed through your education, but would suggest that you stop calling people ignorant because they dont view things from the same angle that you do.
I disagree with your belief that this report will benefit people of African origin through the implementation of sanitizing commentary on football matches. That belief does not make me ignorant.
Try to consider the fact that your wholehearted buy in, to the point of insulting people who dont traipse behind you, may well be a demonstration of your ignorance of this matter as well.
You are ignorant, it's in every single one of your posts with me in this thread and you're ignorant to your own ignorance, now that's a first.

Followed by more ignorance and maybe even a heavy dose of denial.

I'd wager you've never heard of Colston or Milligan until a few weeks ago, I hadn't and I studied History! But you are so ignorant that you think BLM was "eradicating history" are you always this thick? The movement itself IS HISTORY and the removal of their statutes is part of their history. Both will be shown in museums with their entire history about them, including their slave-trading exploits which were the things about them that were "eradicated" on their glorious statues eulogising their so-called "achievements". You now have somewhere you can go and visit and learn about everything they did Mick, should be an enlightening day out for you.

Where have I stated my belief in the way you describe it? Are you lying about what I type? Inventing my belief? Or are you just thick and/or ignorant again?

I haven't once addressed your "belief" on anything. Just your ignorance.

Do you think the earth is flat Mick?
 
You are ignorant, it's in every single one of your posts with me in this thread and you're ignorant to your own ignorance, now that's a first.

Followed by more ignorance and maybe even a heavy dose of denial.

I'd wager you've never heard of Colston or Milligan until a few weeks ago, I hadn't and I studied History! But you are so ignorant that you think BLM was "eradicating history" are you always this thick? The movement itself IS HISTORY and the removal of their statutes is part of their history. Both will be shown in museums with their entire history about them, including their slave-trading exploits which were the things about them that were "eradicated" on their glorious statues eulogising their so-called "achievements". You now have somewhere you can go and visit and learn about everything they did Mick, should be an enlightening day out for you.

Where have I stated my belief in the way you describe it? Are you lying about what I type? Inventing my belief? Or are you just thick and/or ignorant again?

I haven't once addressed your "belief" on anything. Just your ignorance.

Do you think the earth is flat Mick?
are you unwell?
You seem to be having some sort of breakdown. Why have you suddenly decided that you are some sort of gifted on line psychiatrist?
No I don't think the earth is flat, but I am beginning to suspect that you have some kind of emotional or mental health problems.
Either that or you are just too dumb to read English and understand what all the words mean, in the sentence construction they have been organised into.
I don't need to go to museums to understand what the slave trade was, or what it was all about, unlike you I didn't need to have my children tell me, I just used the time honoured system of attending school, reading books and absorbing information.

You said I was ignorant to my own ignorance - which is the same as saying that I don't know the things that I don't know. Is that a surprise to you, as I'm sure that most people don't know the things that they don't know. I am however well aware that there are vast amounts of available information that I havent exposed myself to - Peruvian ornithology, quantum mechanics and what the fuck you are talking about, being some of them.
I'm also bright enough to see what is going on in the world, and can see the value of our countries history and what it represents, good and bad.
So do me a favour and stick your shithouse, mickey mouse personal analysis up your rusty bullet hole, and leave me to live in the real world, whilst you paddle around in your version of it.

I'm done here, and I'm certainly not prepared to carry on any kind of further dialogue with someone whose approach to a discussion looks like your previous post.
Enjoy your introspective journey to self enlightenment
 
If racism exists in society I am unsure how anyone can ever believe it won't exist in all sport let alone football.

If there was no overt racism it would still be there.

Until we are honest with ourselves and until the privileged majority accept that privilege and all its manifestations we will never rid ourselves of one of the most senseless divisions known to man.
No one seems to want to be honest about humans & ourselves though. We are a horrible species really. The way we treat each other, the planet & other animals etc.
 
People are going to be terrified of saying anything about a players attributes or impact on the game now. What if a black lad is having a stinker, does the white commentator say nothing? Or if a white player is having a mare and a black commentator is covering the game - what does he say?

One of the idiosyncrasies of human kind is clearly evident at the olympics, and that is that black athletes run faster than white/other athletes across virtually all distances, yet strangely white athletes seem to be better swimmers or field events competitors - what do commentators on those sports say now?

You can't just write off a commentary because it's visually accurate, because there are differences intrinsically in the physique, athleticism and physical profiles of people of different races. It isn't racist to say it, it's simply honest commentary.
I think humans can look way too deeply in to things. Like how someone commentates.
 
Eni Aluko is an idiot.
I know I am obsessed with this point. But I can't get my head around people caring about a black person getting better jobs in sports whilst not been bothered about the black kids being exploited through child labour & dying in mines so they can use there iphone.
I wouldn't mind if we were all honest & said 1st world BLM. Its my own hang up though about people being dishonest & not genuine.
Not relevant to her point, I know.
 
are you unwell?
You seem to be having some sort of breakdown. Why have you suddenly decided that you are some sort of gifted on line psychiatrist?
No I don't think the earth is flat, but I am beginning to suspect that you have some kind of emotional or mental health problems.
Either that or you are just too dumb to read English and understand what all the words mean, in the sentence construction they have been organised into.
I don't need to go to museums to understand what the slave trade was, or what it was all about, unlike you I didn't need to have my children tell me, I just used the time honoured system of attending school, reading books and absorbing information.

You said I was ignorant to my own ignorance - which is the same as saying that I don't know the things that I don't know. Is that a surprise to you, as I'm sure that most people don't know the things that they don't know. I am however well aware that there are vast amounts of available information that I havent exposed myself to - Peruvian ornithology, quantum mechanics and what the fuck you are talking about, being some of them.
I'm also bright enough to see what is going on in the world, and can see the value of our countries history and what it represents, good and bad.
So do me a favour and stick your shithouse, mickey mouse personal analysis up your rusty bullet hole, and leave me to live in the real world, whilst you paddle around in your version of it.

I'm done here, and I'm certainly not prepared to carry on any kind of further dialogue with someone whose approach to a discussion looks like your previous post.
Enjoy your introspective journey to self enlightenment
Hahaha don't go Micky there still so much you're not telling us, like:

How did you learn about the Slave Trade whilst at School when it's not on the curriculum? I went to uni as an adult to Study History, I got a 2:1 which I'm quite pleased about but it's not in the curriculum! It's not taught in this country! (I believe only in the last 5yrs has a module become available following the UCL's slave ownership project in 2015(?) but NOTHING was available at the time I took my degree. Only if you choose to continue for a masters was it possible).

What books have you read on the subject matter? I'd love to know as I am consuming at least a book a week at the moment and welcome recommendations on the topic. A brief synopsis on your thoughts on them would help me prioritise my reading.

You see, if a subject isn't taught know one can learn about it, compound that to the fact that the feed of historical figures (statues thereof) only chooses to commemorate chosen aspects of history whilst whitewashing the rest makes mugs out of those who are open to learning.

I'm blessed and proud that my kids have taken me down this path, all be it somewhat regretful it's taken me this long especially given the ethnicity of my family. But I wouldn't be having the conversations with them today had I started reading the subject earlier, so happy with this status quo.
 
Hahaha don't go Micky there still so much you're not telling us, like:

How did you learn about the Slave Trade whilst at School when it's not on the curriculum? I went to uni as an adult to Study History, I got a 2:1 which I'm quite pleased about but it's not in the curriculum! It's not taught in this country! (I believe only in the last 5yrs has a module become available following the UCL's slave ownership project in 2015(?) but NOTHING was available at the time I took my degree. Only if you choose to continue for a masters was it possible).

What books have you read on the subject matter? I'd love to know as I am consuming at least a book a week at the moment and welcome recommendations on the topic. A brief synopsis on your thoughts on them would help me prioritise my reading.

You see, if a subject isn't taught know one can learn about it, compound that to the fact that the feed of historical figures (statues thereof) only chooses to commemorate chosen aspects of history whilst whitewashing the rest makes mugs out of those who are open to learning.

I'm blessed and proud that my kids have taken me down this path, all be it somewhat regretful it's taken me this long especially given the ethnicity of my family. But I wouldn't be having the conversations with them today had I started reading the subject earlier, so happy with this status quo.
I'm very old, it was back in the 70s. I have also lived in Bermuda and Belize and learned quite a bit then. Plus as I have been on the planet for a while I have seen and read quite a bit about various aspects. I dont doubt that if you have been swallowing the subject in your fervent desire for enlightenment that you are now better read than I am.
That's because I know enough to not give a fuck about learning any more, because 200 years down the line its largely irrelevant.
Make sure you learn about the white slaves as well, they weren't all black and they weren't all from Africa.
Then read about how our wonderful country used to persecute each other, killing in large numbers because of religion, and of all the Englishmen enslaved by the English.
But you know something, we learned from it, realised it was shit AND WE DONT FUCKING DO IT ANY MORE.

but discrimination is everywhere and will be so until the tribal nature of humans evaporates from our Gene's.

Go to Africa, where you can still find slaves today.
 
I'm very old, it was back in the 70s. I have also lived in Bermuda and Belize and learned quite a bit then. Plus as I have been on the planet for a while I have seen and read quite a bit about various aspects. I dont doubt that if you have been swallowing the subject in your fervent desire for enlightenment that you are now better read than I am.
That's because I know enough to not give a fuck about learning any more, because 200 years down the line its largely irrelevant.
Make sure you learn about the white slaves as well, they weren't all black and they weren't all from Africa.
Then read about how our wonderful country used to persecute each other, killing in large numbers because of religion, and of all the Englishmen enslaved by the English.
But you know something, we learned from it, realised it was shit AND WE DONT FUCKING DO IT ANY MORE.

but discrimination is everywhere and will be so until the tribal nature of humans evaporates from our Gene's.

Go to Africa, where you can still find slaves today.
MC: "How dare you insult me calling me ignorant"
G: "Being called ignorant isn't an insult, consult the dictionary for it's meaning"
MC: "That's because I know enough to not give a fuck about learning any more, because 200 years down the line its largely irrelevant".
G: "Exhibit "T" in evidenced ignorance. It's highly relevant Mick, what is going on around the world right now is highly relevant and largely stems form these times. But clearly, because it's so long ago (and arguably because you are white) that doesn't compute, so how about this for relevance. The compensation bill that was made to British Slave owners was the largest bailout in the history of mankind (more than that of the financial bailout of 2008 allowing for inflation) it was so vast (£20m in 1833) that the UK taxpayer only finished paying it off in 2015!! That's modern-day repercussions, it's just one of so many more reasons why it's still relevant.
MC: "Make sure you learn about the white slaves as well, they weren't all black and they weren't all from Africa".
G: I'm learning everything Mick, it's the whole point mate. When I'm told about Colston I don't just want to know that he donated to build a school and he's a statue to commemorate him every day to thank him for being so generous, I also want it to be known how his wealth was accumulated and his role in the deaths of hundreds of people (more people died in transport on his boats to the Caribbean than Jews died in Auschwitz!!). Without this knowledge, we are being treated like mugs.
MC: "But you know something, we learned from it, realised it was shit AND WE DONT FUCKING DO IT ANY MORE".
G: "If it was so shit and we don't do it anymore (not entirely true but it's not legal and state-supported but slavery is very much alive and kicking in Britain) it needs to be on the national curriculum rather than whitewashed from history entirely. In Germany the Holocaust is on the national curriculum; Vergangenheitsaufarbeitung (learning from the past), rather being selective in what is taught in schools and airbrushing the shit bits out they have adopted the very thing missing from our own education. The quest for atonement, for recognition of shame, is not in itself shameful. Contrition, leading to reconciliation, need not foul our nest.

Can you list those books for me Mick? Ta muchly.
 
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