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Transfers Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

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ChrissyWaddleShares said:
Pretty sure Mourinho was moaning about him being injured, plus Poch played him loads. This argument’s been had plenty of times, so best leave it here.
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This (the original tweet) is another example of why Sissoko actually is crap.

His defenders can't actually point to his good play or show us what he does well. They can't refute the fact that he is terrible with the ball at his feet, actively points to players to pass it away from him and often just flat out doesn't play the ball when it is near him.

So they resort to weak arguments like this that managers supposedly like him so that means he must be good. It is a BS argument appealing to authority and does nothing to show that Sissoko is actually good or helps the team.

When talking about actual good players people talk about the player and what he does not just rush to talk about how he has been selected over his career.
 
Brian Fantana said:
Poch didn’t want him or rate him then had to play him out of necessity. Same Mourinho. He’s not good enough for us. Once he’s out of the team we immediately improve. No idea who that guy is but there’s zero context in his statement.
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Rightfully or wrongly....

Poch played him ahead of GLC, Skipp, Eriksen.
Jose played him ahead of Ndombele. Skipp, Gedson,.
 
Igula said:
His defenders can't actually point to his good play or show us what he does well.
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He's defensively aware, tough in the tackle, always looking to surge forward in possession and put defenders on the back foot, and he runs his lungs out every time he's out there.

The frustrating thing about Sissoko is that if he just had average quality in picking and delivering simple passes on the move, he'd be a top, top midfielder. But he's wretched at that, so he's just a reliable squad piece for a club with our ambitions. Shouldn't be a nailed-on starter, never worth anything near what we paid for him, but a useful player and by all accounts a quality servant of the club who doesn't deserve half the stick he gets.
 
Igula said:
Yes I agree we don't need someone who sucks in that role. But only focusing on the negatives that can happen and playing accordingly is what holds mediocre teams back,
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What holds mediocre teams back is not being negative, but conceding more goals than they score. With a functioning front line we’ll score, so keeping the opposition away from our defence is next most important to prevent conceding goals- therefore, don’t make risky passes in the central area that could lead to turnover and a break into the defence.
 
Igula said:
This (the original tweet) is another example of why Sissoko actually is crap.

His defenders can't actually point to his good play or show us what he does well. They can't refute the fact that he is terrible with the ball at his feet, actively points to players to pass it away from him and often just flat out doesn't play the ball when it is near him.

So they resort to weak arguments like this that managers supposedly like him so that means he must be good. It is a BS argument appealing to authority and does nothing to show that Sissoko is actually good or helps the team.

When talking about actual good players people talk about the player and what he does not just rush to talk about how he has been selected over his career.
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There’s a great article somewhere about the way he breaks the ball down in the central areas. Might be Telegraph or Times. Have a read.
EDIT - Independent
 
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Igula said:
They can be and are certainly skills that the same player can have.

Winks is poor at both.
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Winks is very, very good at keeping the play moving under pressure. A team in possession is going to stay in possession and keep the defense under stress longer with Harry Winks occupying the midfield.

And he is also positionally aware and defensively responsible and consistent, even if he's not the world's best tackler.

He's not Michael Carrick, but Michael Carrick wasn't Michael Carrick until relatively far into his career either. Let's see what happens as he gains the wisdom of some years.
 
Igula said:
When talking about actual good players people talk about the player and what he does not just rush to talk about how he has been selected over his career.
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Remember when he scored those goals right at the start of Jose’s reign? We were all saying about those, weren’t we? Or when he ran on into Liverpool’s box and missed the pass to Sonny? Or in game when he does a lung-busting run and then screws up at the end? Or when he goes Beast-mode into the corner?

perhaps the managers see the 95% before it goes wrong: you mention about negative tactics in one of your other posts- Sissoko is one of the most aggressive and wannabe progressive players on the pitch (probably with Sonny, Kane, Lucas)...he’s just in the team at a time when there’s no platform for him to do that. He’s another victim of the Dembele / Dier / Wanyama problem - without a dedicated DM, we have to make do with CMs who are having to take on more than one role.
I’m not convinced Jose will keep him if an offer comes, but it won’t be the end of the world if he does.

And, while we’re on the subject of ‘weak’ / ‘strong’ arguments, alluding to expert opinion is pretty standard - in fact, they use it in courts around the world all the time so I’ll continue to use Poch, Jose and Deschamps as they’re opinion is a fuckton more expert than yours or mine.
 
I didn't get to watch the game but it looks like Hojbjerg played more advanced again. Curious if that is just to give other players time in a defensive role or if this is the plan for him. Maybe those Sangare rumors are true.
 
ChrissyWaddleShares said:
Remember when he scored those goals right at the start of Jose’s reign? We were all saying about those, weren’t we? Or when he ran on into Liverpool’s box and missed the pass to Sonny? Or in game when he does a lung-busting run and then screws up at the end? Or when he goes Beast-mode into the corner?

perhaps the managers see the 95% before it goes wrong: you mention about negative tactics in one of your other posts- Sissoko is one of the most aggressive and wannabe progressive players on the pitch (probably with Sonny, Kane, Lucas)...he’s just in the team at a time when there’s no platform for him to do that. He’s another victim of the Dembele / Dier / Wanyama problem - without a dedicated DM, we have to make do with CMs who are having to take on more than one role.
I’m not convinced Jose will keep him if an offer comes, but it won’t be the end of the world if he does.

And, while we’re on the subject of ‘weak’ / ‘strong’ arguments, alluding to expert opinion is pretty standard - in fact, they use it in courts around the world all the time so I’ll continue to use Poch, Jose and Deschamps as they’re opinion is a fuckton more expert than yours or mine.
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The experts have to explain their reasoning, they don’t just say expert Bob likes it so just trust him.
 
Igula said:
The experts have to explain their reasoning, they don’t just say expert Bob likes it so just trust him.
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I’m sure if you asked the managers they’d explain it. As we’re unable to speak to them, probably best to assume they could explain it if we were there. The alternative thought is that there are several experts who are all wrong in exactly the same way - which is far less likely.
 
ChrissyWaddleShares said:
Not really how data is used, though, is it? Data identifies patterns which can then be scrutinised and acted upon. True, the data can miss certain things, but it can’t hide them. You’d saying he doesn’t pass forward is clearly nonsense as the data says he does?? It suggests more about what you’re missing than what Winks is doing.
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This is not the best take on data/statistics though is it? Data is just data, yes. But the art of stats/data is its presentation. That plot might show that HW passes 'forward' but you would need more data or direct observation to actually see the quality of said forward passes. If he sprays it out sideways to Davies or Serge and it goes 5 yards upfield then that is a 'forward pass' but it has very little incisiveness right? Rarely does Winks break a line with a pass and that is the problem, one that cannot or is not elucidated by that plot.

And though I like HW I am not sure of any further improvement in this area of the game. Watch Winksy all game and tell me if you ever catch him taking a picture/checking his wing mirrors on the field before receiving the ball. Ever! He doesn't and therefore has no idea where his players are and has less time to act once he actually controls the pass. Thus leaving sideways and backwards as his only options because he is not aware of his time and space. When he does receive the ball with his head up and looking forward he oftens attempts something resembling a helpful pass. This is not a player that can improve until he improves that aspect of his MF game...or he develops the ability to hold the ball against pressure but that is less likely.
 
Swoos said:
I didn't get to watch the game but it looks like Hojbjerg played more advanced again. Curious if that is just to give other players time in a defensive role or if this is the plan for him. Maybe those Sangare rumors are true.
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When we built up from the back, he was the deepest midfielder as far as I could tell. I think it's part of his type of play to (when we progress the ball high up the field OR we press high) advance aggressively.
 
todd1882 said:
This is not the best take on data/statistics though is it? Data is just data, yes. But the art of stats/data is its presentation. That plot might show that HW passes 'forward' but you would need more data or direct observation to actually see the quality of said forward passes. If he sprays it out sideways to Davies or Serge and it goes 5 yards upfield then that is a 'forward pass' but it has very little incisiveness right? Rarely does Winks break a line with a pass and that is the problem, one that cannot or is not elucidated by that plot.

And though I like HW I am not sure of any further improvement in this area of the game. Watch Winksy all game and tell me if you ever catch him taking a picture/checking his wing mirrors on the field before receiving the ball. Ever! He doesn't and therefore has no idea where his players are and has less time to act once he actually controls the pass. Thus leaving sideways and backwards as his only options because he is not aware of his time and space. When he does receive the ball with his head up and looking forward he oftens attempts something resembling a helpful pass. This is not a player that can improve until he improves that aspect of his MF game...or he develops the ability to hold the ball against pressure but that is less likely.
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This is a great observation. Totally agree.
 
Igula said:
This (the original tweet) is another example of why Sissoko actually is crap.

His defenders can't actually point to his good play or show us what he does well. They can't refute the fact that he is terrible with the ball at his feet, actively points to players to pass it away from him and often just flat out doesn't play the ball when it is near him.

So they resort to weak arguments like this that managers supposedly like him so that means he must be good. It is a BS argument appealing to authority and does nothing to show that Sissoko is actually good or helps the team.

When talking about actual good players people talk about the player and what he does not just rush to talk about how he has been selected over his career.
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You're literally the plumber guy the tweet is making fun of. You've probably never played the sport either Dave. Are you a plumber too?
 
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