Because people are scared we are all of a sudden going to be battling relegation.
Which makes zero sense if you actually watch football.
There is a reason bottom teams stay at the bottom. Quality on the pitch.
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Management Poll: Who do you want most as our next manager?
- Thread starter ClosedAccount10263
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Because people are scared we are all of a sudden going to be battling relegation.
Which makes zero sense if you actually watch football.
There is a reason bottom teams stay at the bottom. Quality on the pitch.
Went to school of Bielsa. A coach who hasn't had a top club job in 40 years.
Did OK with poor Espanyol Team
Did OK with poor Southampton Team
Very poor language skills
Had a shit pony tail and gave away penalty against England as a player.
No one realised the last point for a very long time.
It sure is a merry go round. By that logic we should just wait and not appoint anyone. Make Kane a player manager and just wait for Pep to one day have the desire to manage a team with a less than ideal budget.
Is Potter not doing OK with Brighton? Or should the be battling for top 8?
A Southampton side that was just a lot better and more accomplished in less time at the helm than Potter's Brighton, and one in which a lot of young players were made to look like superstars.
Fair enough to say hey let's have a punt on a guy who plays good football, but Potter is hardly the only option in that bucket, I don't quite understand why he's become a meme around here.
Poch did.
Should Potter be making an England regular out of Adam Lallana? Poch did.
Think people are rightly worried where we'd be if we take Kane and possibly Son out of our team.
Blackburn finished 4th, 2nd and 1st with Shearer and Sutton in the team.
Within 3 years of them going Blackburn went down having finished 7th, 13th and 6th
We may replace Kane with the fee. But more than likely we'll buy some one no one has heard of who will fall flat on their arse.
I like doing my own data digging on playing styles to see what different managers have to offer. Yes, xG is nice, but there are other things too I think which show a manager's style and tactical thinking. If the brief really is possession-based attacking football, then it should be something that shows up in their body of work. So I went and looked up a few different things for different managers to get an idea of what they look like, and then see how they compared across Europe's Top 5 Leagues (so, England, France, Spain, Germany, and Italy, totaling 98 teams), to get a rough idea of everyone in a single group. All data is from FBref. I included one guy not mentioned by anyone who might be a good fit, and I included Nagelsmann to see why he was so highly rated.
So, first off, the classic xG. I wanted to see it as a constant rate, so it's per 90, but I also wanted to see both for and against (xG/90 and xGA/90). A guy with a good difference could be a mediocre attacking team but brilliant defensively, or vice versa. I'm also including Shots/90 to get an idea of which guys coach teams to do more active attacking, or leaky sieve defending. We're Spurs, and we want people to be on the front foot all game long, but good teams don't give up a lot of shots in return.
Potter xG/90 1.43 (33rd) xGA/90 0.98 (13th) S/90 12.82 (28th) SA/90 8.76 (9th)
Galtier xG/90 1.33 (44th) xGA/90 0.70 (1st) S/90 12.94 (27th) SA/90 8.77 (11th)
Fonseca xG/90 1.84 (13th) xGA/90 1.31 (48th) S/90 13.79 (18th) SA/90 10.15 (24th)
Lopetegui xG/90 1.36 (40th) xGA/90 0.91 (6th) S/90 12.00 (38th) SA/90 8.76 (10th)
Kovacs xG/90 1.80 (14th) xGA/90 0.91 (7th) S/90 12.49 (31st) SA/90 8.60 (7th)
Nagelsmann xG/90 1.90 (10th) xGA/90 0.81 (3rd) S/90 15.68 (4th) SA/90 7.26 (2nd)
So, Potter combines an top 1/3 in Europe attack to a roughly top 10 defence, with Galtier's attack taking about as many shots as Potter's team, but from worse places, and he combines that with an in some respects, best in Europe defence. Fonseca's team attacks better, but also gives up more shots, and those happen to be quite good shots. Lopetegui is in the same region as Potter and Galtier in defence, but takes fewer, crappier shots. Kovacs manages roughly the same shots as Potter, but of much better quality, while being maybe slightly ahead on defence. Nagelsmann combines a lot of good shots with giving up very few, crappy shots.
In terms of possession, I wanted to know how much of the ball they had (%), but I also want to know who is passing into the final third more. That's just a stylistic thing, but the Spurs way is heavy on the possession, and heavy on the pass and move FORWARD. So, I wanted to know who was making the most progressive passes forward per 90. I also wanted to know who was the most active in the final third, so I wanted to see who had the most touches in the final third. And finally, we know we want a pressing team, so which team had more successful pressures per 90.
Potter Possession 51.5 (40th) ProgPass/90 34.5 (40th) F1/3T/90 171.3 (22nd) Press 43.1 (33rd )
Galtier Possession 54.1 (24th) ProgPass/90 41.9 (11th) F1/3T/90 174.6 (18th) Press 42.3 (37th)
Fonseca Possession 52.3 (35th) ProgPass/90 36.6 (27th) F1/3T/90 156.5 (36th) Press 41.0 (50th)
Lopetegui Possession 61.7 (5th) ProgPass/90 35.3 (37th) F1/3T/90 169.8 (23rd) Press 39.8 (66th)
Kovacs Possession 56.1 (17th) ProgPass/90 42.2 (9th) F1/3T/90 169.3 (24th) Press 46.6 (14th)
Nagelsmann Possession 59.9 (11th) ProgPass/90 48.8 (8th) F1/3T/90 201.5(10th) Press 51.3 (3rd)
So, Nagelsmann has more possession, plays the ball forward more, has his team doing more in the final third, and pressing more than anyone else. So, the stylistic gold star goes to him. Galtier's Lille passes the ball forward much more often than Potter's Brighton, with slightly higher possession, but Potter's team is doing stuff more often in the final third than Lille, and is pressing more. Fonseca's team is in-between Potter and Galtier on posession and forward passing, but does significantly less in the final third, and presses less as well. Lopetegui's Seville has a LOT more of the ball, but passes it forward and uses it in the final third only as much as Potter's Brighton, and presses massively less. Wenger's infamous sterile possession? Kovacs has more possession than Potter or Galtier, passes it forward as much as Galtier, but works with it in the final third as much as Potter, and presses significantly more.
So, your mileage may vary, and opinions will differ. I think Kovacs is interesting as an unmentioned guy, but if Monaco are seeking to replace him with Galtier, then if he is available he could be a very interesting choice, who seems to tick the same boxes that Nagelsmann or Potter do. Fonseca and Lopetegui look interesting, but flawed. Lopetegui's team looking much less proactive than we'd like, and Fonseca perhaps having too much of the Bobby Martinez about him (as in, we'd get put the sword by a good team too often).
Potter is interesting for me in that despite working with Brighton's resources, he is getting a team to play like a "big team." Stylistically, they very much play like what we want a European giant to do, and it seems like bar a complete inability for their forwards to even hit the broadside of a barn, they would be impressively far up the table and he would be getting a lot more attention.
Even if some egos in our squad might be put off, I think those players might be leaving anyway. If they're willing to give it a go, I think Potter stands out as a very good match. If they aren't then we need to make sure we have someone quite ruthless as a forward to make use of what he would get the team to do.
But don't sleep on Niko Kovacs. He might be a great dark horse idea.
So, first off, the classic xG. I wanted to see it as a constant rate, so it's per 90, but I also wanted to see both for and against (xG/90 and xGA/90). A guy with a good difference could be a mediocre attacking team but brilliant defensively, or vice versa. I'm also including Shots/90 to get an idea of which guys coach teams to do more active attacking, or leaky sieve defending. We're Spurs, and we want people to be on the front foot all game long, but good teams don't give up a lot of shots in return.
Potter xG/90 1.43 (33rd) xGA/90 0.98 (13th) S/90 12.82 (28th) SA/90 8.76 (9th)
Galtier xG/90 1.33 (44th) xGA/90 0.70 (1st) S/90 12.94 (27th) SA/90 8.77 (11th)
Fonseca xG/90 1.84 (13th) xGA/90 1.31 (48th) S/90 13.79 (18th) SA/90 10.15 (24th)
Lopetegui xG/90 1.36 (40th) xGA/90 0.91 (6th) S/90 12.00 (38th) SA/90 8.76 (10th)
Kovacs xG/90 1.80 (14th) xGA/90 0.91 (7th) S/90 12.49 (31st) SA/90 8.60 (7th)
Nagelsmann xG/90 1.90 (10th) xGA/90 0.81 (3rd) S/90 15.68 (4th) SA/90 7.26 (2nd)
So, Potter combines an top 1/3 in Europe attack to a roughly top 10 defence, with Galtier's attack taking about as many shots as Potter's team, but from worse places, and he combines that with an in some respects, best in Europe defence. Fonseca's team attacks better, but also gives up more shots, and those happen to be quite good shots. Lopetegui is in the same region as Potter and Galtier in defence, but takes fewer, crappier shots. Kovacs manages roughly the same shots as Potter, but of much better quality, while being maybe slightly ahead on defence. Nagelsmann combines a lot of good shots with giving up very few, crappy shots.
In terms of possession, I wanted to know how much of the ball they had (%), but I also want to know who is passing into the final third more. That's just a stylistic thing, but the Spurs way is heavy on the possession, and heavy on the pass and move FORWARD. So, I wanted to know who was making the most progressive passes forward per 90. I also wanted to know who was the most active in the final third, so I wanted to see who had the most touches in the final third. And finally, we know we want a pressing team, so which team had more successful pressures per 90.
Potter Possession 51.5 (40th) ProgPass/90 34.5 (40th) F1/3T/90 171.3 (22nd) Press 43.1 (33rd )
Galtier Possession 54.1 (24th) ProgPass/90 41.9 (11th) F1/3T/90 174.6 (18th) Press 42.3 (37th)
Fonseca Possession 52.3 (35th) ProgPass/90 36.6 (27th) F1/3T/90 156.5 (36th) Press 41.0 (50th)
Lopetegui Possession 61.7 (5th) ProgPass/90 35.3 (37th) F1/3T/90 169.8 (23rd) Press 39.8 (66th)
Kovacs Possession 56.1 (17th) ProgPass/90 42.2 (9th) F1/3T/90 169.3 (24th) Press 46.6 (14th)
Nagelsmann Possession 59.9 (11th) ProgPass/90 48.8 (8th) F1/3T/90 201.5(10th) Press 51.3 (3rd)
So, Nagelsmann has more possession, plays the ball forward more, has his team doing more in the final third, and pressing more than anyone else. So, the stylistic gold star goes to him. Galtier's Lille passes the ball forward much more often than Potter's Brighton, with slightly higher possession, but Potter's team is doing stuff more often in the final third than Lille, and is pressing more. Fonseca's team is in-between Potter and Galtier on posession and forward passing, but does significantly less in the final third, and presses less as well. Lopetegui's Seville has a LOT more of the ball, but passes it forward and uses it in the final third only as much as Potter's Brighton, and presses massively less. Wenger's infamous sterile possession? Kovacs has more possession than Potter or Galtier, passes it forward as much as Galtier, but works with it in the final third as much as Potter, and presses significantly more.
So, your mileage may vary, and opinions will differ. I think Kovacs is interesting as an unmentioned guy, but if Monaco are seeking to replace him with Galtier, then if he is available he could be a very interesting choice, who seems to tick the same boxes that Nagelsmann or Potter do. Fonseca and Lopetegui look interesting, but flawed. Lopetegui's team looking much less proactive than we'd like, and Fonseca perhaps having too much of the Bobby Martinez about him (as in, we'd get put the sword by a good team too often).
Potter is interesting for me in that despite working with Brighton's resources, he is getting a team to play like a "big team." Stylistically, they very much play like what we want a European giant to do, and it seems like bar a complete inability for their forwards to even hit the broadside of a barn, they would be impressively far up the table and he would be getting a lot more attention.
Even if some egos in our squad might be put off, I think those players might be leaving anyway. If they're willing to give it a go, I think Potter stands out as a very good match. If they aren't then we need to make sure we have someone quite ruthless as a forward to make use of what he would get the team to do.
But don't sleep on Niko Kovacs. He might be a great dark horse idea.
We were in a different place to where we are now in many ways.
We barely had a single player in the squad we wanted to keep badly. We'd barely every been in the CL. We were still at WHL and not close to the new stadium. We could afford to gamble then.
I think the pressure is on now to hire someone with some status in the game.
Kane is already one of our best defenders,midfielders and strikers, he may become a brilliant coach lol.
I don't know if any of them are better choices than Potter, but it seems to me that Thomas Frank at Brentford, Daniel Farke at Norwich, and I'm sorry but Steven Gerrard all have the same sort of attractive football and player development characteristics and no one is mentioning them at all.
Regardless, if Max Allegri would take the job I don't understand how any of these nobodies are even a discussion.
Regardless, if Max Allegri would take the job I don't understand how any of these nobodies are even a discussion.
Dude, don't make my jokey posts serious discussions lol.
it's hyperbole to say Saints were a lot better or more accomplished than Brighton. Yes they were upper midtable as opposed to lower midtable.
And are you suggesting the Potter hasn't made players like Bissouma, Lampety and Sanchez look like great players? He is getting the absolute most out of that Brighton side and has them playing great football while doing so. You could say the exact same things about Poch's time.
The point is you need to get the right guy with the right vision who can get the most out of the side you have.
Here's a wildcard - if Kane walks into Levy's office and says he wants Mason, will it be Mason? I think it will.
The thing is, no matter how "well" we play, if the results aren't there Potter will be gone by Christmas.
And are we really going to get into a big-dick-Levy war with Brighton over Graham Potter?
There are positive aspects to Potter, but they don't seem exclusive to him at all to me.
That's basically saying that Kane will walk to Levy's office and says that he has no ambition to win titles.
Yup. As much as it's hard to fathom, it is more likely Kane is pissed Jose was sacked in the first place.
I wouldn't be against Potter even if it does seem like a bit of a gamble.
We do need an internal restructure in addition to a new manager/coach. Levy needs to be removed from the recruitment process other than signing some cheques.
A rebuild of the squad is also necessary but doesn't necessarily have to be a painful one although a lot depends on whether star players like Kane and Son stay or go.
I've said before that I would go for Gerrard but it would have to be on a contract that massively compensates us if Liverpool come calling. I think that may be a good few years away anyway, think Klopp will want to stay there and build a second team. If Gerrard was our manager then maybe keep Mason as part of his staff and/or see if Robbie Keane would be interested in joining the set-up.
Something like that excites me more than just employing a Conte or Fonseca and asking them to basically be like Poch.
We do need an internal restructure in addition to a new manager/coach. Levy needs to be removed from the recruitment process other than signing some cheques.
A rebuild of the squad is also necessary but doesn't necessarily have to be a painful one although a lot depends on whether star players like Kane and Son stay or go.
I've said before that I would go for Gerrard but it would have to be on a contract that massively compensates us if Liverpool come calling. I think that may be a good few years away anyway, think Klopp will want to stay there and build a second team. If Gerrard was our manager then maybe keep Mason as part of his staff and/or see if Robbie Keane would be interested in joining the set-up.
Something like that excites me more than just employing a Conte or Fonseca and asking them to basically be like Poch.
Comparing squads can be difficult due to the era, but I would say 40 goals in the league from Lambert, Rodriquez, and Lallana is pretty spectacular. Pretty clinical. If you get goals, you are going to win games.
They allowed 46 goals. Brighton right now are on 39. Highly doubt they will be leaking 7 goals in their last 4 with their current run of form defensively.
Again, this is down to finishing. I cannot find xG from that season and other advanced statistics, but I remember watching Poch at SH. He did remarkably well with that squad, but I wouldn't discount SH's history or their squad at the time. After Poch they went to 7th, then 6th and then 8th. But they lost big name after big name and the goals that were part of that team. And now they are struggling again.
That last line though. Um, dude, come on. Lallana hasn't been Lallana since SH. He has been a walking physio room. He has helped a bit this season, but seldom can get more than 3 games in a row before he is out.
Potter has made Bissouma a hot topic. Moder is in his national side, scoring goals. Dunk is back in the convo for England. White surely will be. Trossard got his cap with Belgium.
I see the fear, but such is life in sport. Consistency is incredibly hard especially with the way of the game now; where big bucks are the only way to do it.
I can see fans getting either really hyped with the way we play under Potter and falling in love with him or I can see people getting pissed if we finish 6th his first season as some would deem that a net gain.
I want to be entertained and win. We saw how fun it was last week with Mason and see how it can be. Potter is that man for me and clearly a majority of the board now.