Although you think you speak for 99% of spurs fans, you don't. I'd support Wimbledon if the Saudis took over. I was close to it over the super League too.
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Management Are the morals of our owners important to you?
- Thread starter Adrian Cimino
- Start date
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You have no real choice over that. You do with the football team you support.
The football club forms part of many fans identity. If that sense of identity is tarnished by who owns the club it can be much more upsetting than a lack of trophies.
It's using violence against local people in order to displace them from their home and lands and then walling up your estate like some mini tyrant and corrupting local police in order to keep the masses away. Then planning further works on this land, to the point where local people have begun serious protests against him. Which is being met by further violence and intimidation. It's practically a modern form of imperialist land grabbing, except more bribery and corruption than flintlock rifles.
How far away from murder is that, on the morality scale? I would argue such exploitation is certainly not far off. But the point isn't that Joe Lewis is the exact same as the Saudis, it's simply that if we can tolerate people who are capable of this, we're maybe not in a great position to criticise Newcastle fans for accepting the Saudis after years of their club being borderline abused by Ashley.
You win today's Idiotic False Equivalency award.
Celebrate with your friend
"It completed football"
Hate to say it... But you just fucking nailed it...
It's why we all come back, year after year.... 'cos despite everything they put us through... there's still the hope we might do it... and 'complete' football.
The CL in 2019 came closest, and HAD we won, might have done that for many....
But there's still the argument that REAL winners win, then come back the following year for more...
And the rest of us "losers" come back in the naive hope that THIS will be the year we finally "complete" football!
Well you can support someone else if you think JL is as immoral as KSA. I don't think he's as bad but you have the right to draw your morality line where you are comfortable.
If the Saudi's bought us last Thursday, do you think HK would change his mind or do you think he is too old for the money to start churning and players to be coming in?
I won't because I fundamentally don't believe a football fan should have to stop supporting the team they love just because of whoever currently owns the club. I hate Lewis, but he's not Spurs. I can say I dislike the ownership while supporting the team.
Is it hypocritical? Probably. But football is one of the joys in life, and I'm not gonna allow soulless billionaires to ruin it, they've destroyed far more serious things in the world for me to draw the line there.
Do you think our fan base would uniquely react differently to anyone else's if it was us?
I don't, and you know that was the point I was making
But that actually makes you complicit in providing a veneer of respectability to the billionaire. Surely entertainment is insignificant compared to your distaste for JLs nefarious activities.
Brilliant post. Probably the best in the thread.
Are you suggesting that if we don't like the owners, or the way they're running our club ,we should foĺlow another team.
Even if we've followed Spurs all our life?
Why does it? Horrendous people own and manufacture lots of brands I consume. Entertainment isn't insignificant at all, it's one of the things that keeps ticking away on this planet worthwhile. Ethical consumption of nearly anything in life does not exist under capitalism.
I condemn his actions whenever I can. But those actions are legalised and sanctioned by the societies we exist in. I have zero influence and power, and its not down to me or any of your other average football fans to boycott activities we enjoy simply because they've been hijacked.
I also have my doubts over the extent to which their ownership of City or Newcastle is meant to provide a 'veneer of respectability' when almost nobody in this country, or indeed the West, had any notion of Saudi crimes before they took over City.
Seriously, all their ownership of these teams has done is bring them closer scrutiny. People act like continuing to support the side you legitimise them, but they were legitimised long before that, by people who actually have power and influence.
I don't put the responsibility of JL's actions on the back of Spurs fans, and I won't put the Saudi crimes on the back of Newcastle fans. Both these clubs have existed long before the country itself, and I wouldn't even be surprised if they survived longer than it did.
I think you have articulated my own thoughts better than I could, great post.
You win todays dumbo awardYou win today's Idiotic False Equivalency award.
Celebrate with your friend
How dare newcastle take bloody money from their owners
Yes its fine to take blood money for Walker
Its fine to get the petrol from the murderers
Its fine to buy goods from chinese.
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The Dark Secret Behind a British Billionaire’s “Parallel State” In Argentina’s Patagonia
A sinister plan lurks beneath the de facto independent state created by billionaire Joe Lewis in the heart of Argentina’s Patagonia.www.mintpressnews.com
Just in case anyone was still of the delusional opinion that this man's only crimes against humanity were simple tax evasion.
Wow, that is horrifying- did not know any of that.
I'm sure all the moral crusaders that claimed they would cease supporting Spurs if the Saudis took over will now do the same after learning more about our boy, Lewis.
The cleansing of locals, the buying off of local politicians, the corruption, the supporting the IDF, an entity that carries out ethnic cleansing itself - where is the anger for this? Or is it only the Arab scumbags we have a problem with.
Are you still deflecting?
I notice you didn't reply to the examples I gave you before. You know examples of the things you didn't see when you lived there so they probably never happened.
Or is it only Jewish scumbags you have a problem with?
My views on the Saudis are clear - I have voiced them through the forum including this thread. So if you're suggesting I somehow support the Saudis, I'd say read my posts again.
My only point was that we should criticise them for things they have done, and have evidence for and not things that are hard to prove. Things like war crimes in Yemen, suppression of political/religious rivals and killing of kashogi are easy to prove. Claiming execution of women as if its some sort of norm is not easy to prove. By the way your 'evidence' consisted of a link to the daily mirror - and the article itself claimed the woman had not been executed, there was a court case going on. People were saying sort of things about the Qataris most of which turned out to be bs.
Since my views on the Saudis and Prince Salman are clear, would you like to clarify your views on Joe Lewis?
Show me a post where I have defended Joe Lewis in any way. All I have said is that nothing he is alleged to have done compares with what the Saudi regime have done.
I find it staggering to be honest that in order to defend the Saudi take over of Newcastle people have turned to extreme whataboutery. Saying Lewis, ENIC, the Tories, the government and eating bacon are just as bad.
“We have been threatened with consequences if we enter the property,” claimed one of the protestors.
These threats are far from empty. In 2018, two protestors campaigning for access to Lago Escondido were thrown into the lake by henchmen allegedly working for Lewis, suffering hypothermia. Lewis was contacted for comment on this allegation but declined to respond.
On 1 August 2017, Santiago Maldonado – also from El Foyel and a supporter of the Mapuche community – went missing after participating in a protest against the presence of multinationals in the region. His lifeless body was found in the river 72 days later.
Meanwhile in Rio Negro, the presence of Joe Lewis continues to create conflict.
“This is a case of absolute impunity,” Adrian Moyano added. “Despite national calls, the lake remains inaccessible except via an 80 kilometre route down a steep mountain path. Lewis continues to block access even though the courts have demanded he reopen the path, which he ignores thanks to his economic and political power
. He reportedly hosts up to 10,000 IDF Israeli soldiers at his ranch every Summer.
Bloody hell, he doesnt have the power of the Saudis. But in terms of evil...hes not that far behind.