• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Match Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool | 6 Nov 2022 | KO 16:30 | Second Half Match Thread

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

bonaspur23 said:
I do like a lot of Rams opinions but I think Sterling is mediocre and he defends him as if his life depended on it.

He’s over there arguing that we didn’t deserve to win at Marseille due to the xG in their favor (fair) but then ignoring that Chelsea’s xG is absolutely horrendous. In the league, they have an xG of -4! And their expected points is 15. We are plus 7 and xPoints of 24.

But Chelsea are better and will be above us. Ok Ram :contethumb:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Chelsea have been rubbish but have the excuse of a new manager arriving at a really bad time & new owners who haven't got their shit together yet. Yet if they win their game in hand they're what, 2 points behind us?

Wanna bet we'll finish above Chelsea this season?
 
shempz said:
Does that include the 2 mistakes that led to goals yesterday?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No. It counts only the stupid header as a mistake. The other one where he is chilling and falling asleep doesnt count as 'mistake'. That counts as great play...Like i told the other guy, Aurier has registered only 1 'mistake' in his Tottenham career according to stats. But in reality of course he made a lot more mistake.
 
Spaniel said:
I posted just a couple of days ago exactly what happened today. We arse about in the 1st half...always and a better than average team gets a larger lead than one goal and we are chasing. We've got to play two halves....this isn't going to win anything....
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The TV guys on Peacock were talking about this. "Why don't they play like that in the first half", etc. They did not come up with any theories.
 
bus-conductor said:
The problem is, we didn't play well for the first 45 minutes in any of our last few games and as a consequence found ourselves 2 goals behind 4 times and a goal behind once.

It's very hard to call what happens in the second half a good performance because, as we all know, what happens is that a) we've got fuck all to lose then so have no choice but to take risks and b) the opponent when two goals up is far more likely to be more passive/reactive and play deeper.

What's really, really worrying is how little control we have of any of these games, how passive and lethargic we are until we have nothing to lose.

This is almost the opposite of how Conte's periodisation plan should be working, it should be us taking leads, then shelling and countering - but even when we have taken a lead, we've just completely shelled after one goal.

And even being pragmatic wouldn't be an issue if we were aggressive and did it with some intensity, tried actually winning the ball a little sooner than our own penalty spot, making it harder to counter. But we are so fucking passive and lethargic and so deep, it's just fucking awful.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I thought we were the better side in the first half vs Liverpool (between the two gaols).

Define "playing well". What I'm taking from this is "playing well" means having the ball and attacking the oppo. We choose to do this in the 2nd half of games and we win most of them doing just this. Would it be better if we played this way in the first 45mins and then sat deep without the ball for the 2nd 45?

We have control of most games we play, passive 100% but we are saying have the ball and you can shoot but from outside the box. If you get the ball in the box then we are not allowing you a clear chance. This is how we play, we are repeating it and loosing very few games in the process.

As I keep saying moaning about our style is 100% justified but we are very deliberate about how we have chosen play, it's been totally justified too, given the results and more taking into account what Conte inherited (the most unfit side in the league completely Jose'ed out).

One factor has been how the season pans out due to the World Cup, I'm certain most teams have looked at how they approach this season, I *think* we've been cautious because of this. I was kinda hoping for a linear progression from last season as he got the players he wanted, had a pre-season with the team and new signings and was working with a core that was already well-versed with what he wanted. Maybe the view is 3 games per week from the start of the season to now that it was the reason to play the way we have??? Only time will have the answers here.

But we are where we are not by fluke, we are deliberate in how we play, we've been totally outplayed once this season (Utd.) and every point we've taken has gone with the run of the game state, we've lost 2 games (Newcastle and Liverpool) that we deserved to win and we should have won the game vs Sporting the other week.

Pretty? No, absolutely not. Formulaic and to plan yes
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Chelsea have been rubbish but have the excuse of a new manager arriving at a really bad time & new owners who haven't got their shit together yet. Yet if they win their game in hand they're what, 2 points behind us?

Wanna bet we'll finish above Chelsea this season?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And we have an amazing 1 point in 5 games against good teams and are still ahead of Chelsea.

And no I don’t want to bet with someone online, it’s pointless. Chelsea may finish ahead of us. It’s sure as shit not a given though.

My point was you are using data to support one argument but ignoring that data when it doesn’t support your argument.
 
iz futbal said:
That is a silly stat. It doesnt take into account the mistake when bad marking, or falling asleep leads to goals. So dont just read a stat and start believing things.

Still if you think that stat is something to pay attention to. That is the 5th highest number of mistake thats a defender has had in the history of the premier league. Only 4 other defenders have made more mistakes.

In comparison, Davinson Sanchez has a only 2 'mistakes' in his whole career. Aurier made only 1 'mistake' in his whole PL career.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's across NINE fucking seasons mate!!!!! NINE! less than one per year!! But do keep going with the bollocks.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
That wasn't the point at all. The point is we're predictably shit, as much as you and others don't want to admit it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We're "predictably shit"..... All that verbage over recent pages; and that's all your point is?

Probably could have saved yourself a lot of huff and puff fella.... Would have saved me getting involved too.

Raumdeuterz said:
Chelsea have a new coach and new ownership, what's our excuse having had such a world class summer and Conte having been settled at the club?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Irrelevant.... You were gushing over their spending and squad... And no; they didn't have a new manager at the time.

Your "fear" was an up-shot of us comparing best XIs as they stood.... You couldn't even stick to the remit and insisted on crediting them for transfers that they were yet to make.... In fact anyone they were vaguely linked with Gvardiol, Raphina, Ronaldo... Not even Fofana was through the door at the time..... Absolute double-standards. Not the objectivity you seek to portray at all

p.s. I have never said we had a "world class summer" so go wave that shit in someone else's face, thanks.
 
bonaspur23 said:
I do like a lot of Rams opinions but I think Sterling is mediocre and he defends him as if his life depended on it.

He’s over there arguing that we didn’t deserve to win at Marseille due to the xG in their favor (fair) but then ignoring that Chelsea’s xG is absolutely horrendous. In the league, they have an xG of -4! And their expected points is 15. We are plus 7 and xPoints of 24.

But Chelsea are better and will be above us. Ok Ram :contethumb:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Me too.... He's just gone full Hoddle since the end of last season.
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
It's across NINE fucking seasons mate!!!!! NINE! less than one per year!! But do keep going with the bollocks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And across more than 2-3 seasons, Aurier had just 1 mistake. Now if you say Aurier was not error prone , to pretend this stat means something, then you are just lying to yourself. Because the fucking stat is stupid, just like anyone giving that stat any importance would be.

You already lied to the other guy saying 2 of those 7 mistakes were from yesterday. But in reality, only the messed up header counts as his 'mistake'. If he hadnt even touched the ball and sat on the field and scratched his arse, it doesnt count as mistake.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
1.70 xG to our 0.68. 18 shots to our 7. 4 shots on target to our 2. 64% of the ball.

The fact you think we 'completely deserved' to beat them tells me a lot about your objectivity. It was a great win but by no metric that exists a 'deserved' one. We weathered storms for most of the game and were clinical.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I completly disagree they created 2 good chances in the first half both at the back post with Sess not closing down, the other was the Kolasinaic header but honestly think if he gets it on target then Hugo has it covered (all the angles are covered off) but hey if you wish to stick this in your LONG list of 2 games (Utd being the other) we've been out played then hell fill your boots.
 
I finally got round to watching the whole thing. Crap first 10 mins and Dier's clown move aside, I thought we played some really nice football. So good to see Kulu back.

Actually feeling positive about the post-world cup games!
 
iz futbal said:
And across more than 2-3 seasons, Aurier had just 1 mistake. Now if you say Aurier was not error prone , to pretend this stat means something, then you are just lying to yourself. Because the fucking stat is stupid, just like anyone giving that stat any importance would be.

You already lied to the other guy saying 2 of those 7 mistakes were from yesterday. But in reality, only the messed up header counts as his 'mistake'. If he hadnt even touched the ball and sat on the field and scratched his arse, it doesnt count as mistake.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If the sat means nothing to you why are you engaging with me?

The stat INCLUDED the game, yesterday mate!! He has made SEVEN errors in his entire time at Spurs that have led to a goal. Four of the 7 have been against Liverpool.

I posted it against someone saying that he made a mistake EVERY GAME, so for a response for context, it's very fucking relevant about as relevant as saying he dose it every game!!!
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
Fair enough, but it's a fucking joke of a season and will remain to be when we reconvene after the world cup.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's too intense, agreed. There should have been the odd empty mid week. Or , ya know, no winter World Cup.

I decided to check and we have once genuinely played 3 times in a week (and 4 in 8 days), and it went better than expected:

Sunday 27/9/20: 1-1 Newcastle
Tuesday 29/9/20: 1-1 Chelsea, Spurs won on Pens
Thursday 1/10/20: 7-2 Maccabi Haifa
Sunday 4/10/20: 6-1 Vs Man United

Rest of the season...not so much!
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
If the sat means nothing to you why are you engaging with me?

The stat INCLUDED the game, yesterday mate!! He has made SEVEN errors in his entire time at Spurs that have led to a goal. Four of the 7 have been against Liverpool.

I posted it against someone saying that he made a mistake EVERY GAME, so for a response for context, it's very fucking relevant about as relevant as saying he dose it every game!!!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay maybe I was being a bit aggressive. So apologies for that,

But it didnt include both the goals from yesterday, it only counts the header he fucked up as an error. When he went to no mans land for the first goal, the stat doesnt count that as an error.

So its stupid to say , hes only made 7 mistakes in his career. It just 7 really really really bad mistakes where he gave the ball direct to the opposition that lead to goals that are picked by that stat.

The other times where he fucks up with his poor defending and ends up on the floor, stands lazily with his arm up and lets people through, or misses a header, or loses the player hes supposed to be marking etc are not counted in that stat.
 
iz futbal said:
Okay maybe I was being a bit aggressive. So apologies for that,

But it didnt include both the goals from yesterday, it only counts the header he fucked up as an error. When he went to no mans land for the first goal, the stat doesnt count that as an error.

So its stupid to say , hes only made 7 mistakes in his career. It just 7 really really really bad mistakes where he gave the ball direct to the opposition that lead to goals that are picked by that stat.

The other times where he fucks up with his poor defending and ends up on the floor, stands lazily with his arm up and lets people through, or misses a header, or loses the player hes supposed to be marking etc are not counted in that stat.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've seen Son neglecting to track back being the root-cause of a goal, but it'll never register as a 'mistake' stat.... I think you lads are both on a hiding to nothing either way.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top