Management ENIC

[LeParisien]

There really isn't, your bias is blinding you I am afraid.

Both sides have come up with great factual arguments at times and those are appreciated.

But to suggest that the side that wants Levy in is always coming from a place of pure factual evidence is simply incorrect.

This is why I say this debate isn't about facts anymore, it's about sides, it shares a lot in common with left vs right politics and Brexit etc.

So, I am Levy out, do you believe I speak to entrenched positions when I say that I think Levy has done a fantastic job on the business side but I no longer trust his judgement when it comes to footballing decisions and he needs to step aside for the good of the football club?

Because my decision making process is based on the evidence of decline that I am seeing at the football club.

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There are about 5 or 6 Levy In posters who have posted regularly - Get in! , AberdeenYid , le grand coq , LeParisien , stevee maybe scarletjim … these posters all appeal to reason and evidence rather than entrenched positions. Is there anyone I’m forgetting in my bias? They’re clearly some of the posters more comfortable developing an argument.

Only arguable one is professional contrarian Shadydan who is ENIC out but argues with everyone.

There are maybe 15/16 regular posters who are ENIC Out and maybe 2 or 3 of those who appeal to reason and evidence. The rest dismissively say the time for discussion has passed or cherry pick the contextual factors that help their argument whilst brazenly ignoring others. That’s not fair.

So yes, your characterisation is a false equivalence.

And to be absolutely clear it is possible to be ENIC out by appealing to evidence and reason and you have expressed yourself very well.

Ultimately if this has turned into a kind of frustrating politics then it’s because most people are not engaging in good faith. On that we agree. But it’s not really both sides - if this is going to be useful we need both sides to agree to the kind of discourse you promote.

 

[MemphisWill]

So maybe you need perspective.

After stumbling on to a number of managers and players, think Rednapp brought into tidy the mess, think Bale brought in as a left back, we managed the double double with poch and kane, together with Erikson, djembele, Jan and Toby. We did well but right at that moment when we needed investment levy started the process of BS.. first we failed to invest in several windows because he was massively overspending on the stadium.
Then after cocking up and panicking the giant bald turd took it upon himself to change our entire direction and bring in Maureen, Nuno and Conte all guys who simply don't play our way and didn't have the tools at the club to play their way.

After several high profile transfer disasters, think Sanchez, ndombelle Emerson loceslo Richarlson etc we have a shockingly disjointed, technically inept squad which fits no one system or manager.

Levy will not sell his expensive flops freeing up the wage bill as he believes (because he knows nothing) that he can bring in a manager to boost thier utter shitness to help him recoup his losses, either that or a DoF who can loan them to someone better suited to achieve the same.

We now find ourselves lacking European football, with a huge wage bill, no manager, no DoF and the aforementioned shit squad, oh yeah and a stadium with a 300m overspend because thick cunt thought the good times were guaranteed.

Years of fucking other teams over have resulted in nobody wanting to come to us or do business with us. His miscalculations will only now become evident.

His positives will be far outweighed by his negatives

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All this is mostly true. I'll say that I don't think Levy clung to this squad to "recoup losses" as he allowed Eriksen to wind his contract down and players like Dembele and Toby to get old and lose all their value. It's pretty clear to me that he thought this squad was a lot closer to glory than it actually was and screwed up by thinking they could get it done rather than buy replacements/supplements and sell certain players when he could/should have.

The reality is, the good times were never as good as we thought they were, and the bad times aren't either. We are certainly in for some dark days ahead, as this entire squad has to be retooled - we pushed it 5 years past its peak and will now pay the price.

As I said, I'd love for Levy and ENIC to bow out, but they're not going to so I'd rather save myself the negativity of focusing on it all the time.

 

[stevee]

Again, he was likening Levy's effect on the club to a tumour causing further illness. There is a big difference between that and directly calling someone a 'div' or posting that shit Shady did the other day.

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Again, he has repeatedly wished death Levy and his family.

But that's ok because he's levy out

 

[stevee]

And what offends you more? Div (in jest) as opposed to that awful GIF?

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Both are equally bad.
If I had seen the offending post I would of disagreed with it and foul voted it.
It had already been removed before then.

What offends me are the cunts who try to defend the indefensible and then try to double down, or turn it into a point scoring competition.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

The most hated man in football

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I suspect not just in football , can you imagine anyone enjoying dealing with him, I can‘t.

 

[MemphisWill]

This is a very well balanced post & pretty much nails it imho.

Poch played good football overachieved in the league & got us to a Champs league final so everybody was happy.

Expectations were raised.

Mourinho came in & played dull football

Mourinho finished 6th was sacked before the end of the season & got us to a cup final.

Very underwhelming after Poch but an acceptable level if you are not expecting to overachieve every season.

Conte got us back to top 4 (his main objective tbf ) & a cup semi.
He Imploded this season but we were still sat in 4th when he left.

The problem tbh was not so much that Mourinho & Conte underachieved, more that the football was horrible and they were understandably compared to Poch who overachieved and they couldn't do the same.

Fact is as a club,all things being equal (which we unfortunately know not to be the case in football) we should probably finish somewhere between 4th and 8th most seasons.
So 6th is probably average.

Unfortunately now Newcastle have massive money things have become even harder.

Man U, Liverpool, Woolwich have always been far more successful. FACT

Post Enic Chelsea, Man City & now Newcastle all have obscene money to compete so finishing top 6 is very tough. FACT

I understand that's not want people want to hear but it's simply the truth.


Because Poch took us higher playing great football it meant expectations were raised.

It certainly doesn't mean we should expect or feel entitled to finish top 4 every season.

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True, what's galling about this season, however, is that we haven't seen the Saudi effect at Newcastle yet. They just hired the manager that we arguably should have hired (but thought was beneath us) and signed the right back that we shouldn't have sold (and I was happy to see him sold, so I'll hold my hand up on that one).

The biggest failing, in my eyes, this season is we never seemed to have a post-Conte plan. If you employ Conte, you should always have a post-Conte plan...the man's employment history makes that plain as day.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

I see that ardilles confirmed that the phone call never came for poch, after the stadium sang his name. Wtf not even a courtesy call to politely tell him we are going in another direction?

Ossie Ardiles reveals what Mauricio Pochettino's stance was over Spurs return

Tottenham Hotspur legend Ossie Ardiles been speaking to fans at a Spurs supporter event this weekend and revealed exactly why Mauricio Pochettino chose to join...

www.spurs-web.com

And now confirmed signed for Chelsea.

Backhand, disrespectful way of working and I wish poch all the best (despite being reduced to Chelsea as his premier league option)

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What a load of bollocks.

 

[StevenPL]

This season hasn’t finished yet.

Do you see the clear proof that league performances under Poch were the second highest in our history?

Do you see that Levy has overseen a dramatic and sustained rise in performance since he took over compared to what came before?

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In your own words the season isnt over yet but just so you understand you only get 3 points... And no poch got the team performances up there not fn levy. But Levy's interfering and horrendous investment have definitely contributed to the observable downward line.

Ps how much does levy pay you

 

[StevenPL]

I'm not disputing poor decisions were made.

I'm simply looking at the whole picture & how football has evolved.

We still maintained a decent league position. FACT

Everton a similar sized club to us have not even made top 10 since Carlo. They are in danger of relegation ffs. They have a genuine reason to cry.


I agree we are in a slump but in the grand scheme of things it's not anywhere near as horrendous as people on here make out.

Sure it's disappointing but get a grip & some genuine perspective ffs .

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Cause 8th is as good as it gets you dumb cunts?

 

[Nuts]

Levy out chants loud and proud today.

 

[skywalker68]

There are about 5 or 6 Levy In posters who have posted regularly - Get in! , AberdeenYid , le grand coq , LeParisien , stevee maybe scarletjim … these posters all appeal to reason and evidence rather than entrenched positions. Is there anyone I’m forgetting in my bias? They’re clearly some of the posters more comfortable developing an argument.

Only arguable one is professional contrarian Shadydan who is ENIC out but argues with everyone.

There are maybe 15/16 regular posters who are ENIC Out and maybe 2 or 3 of those who appeal to reason and evidence. The rest dismissively say the time for discussion has passed or cherry pick the contextual factors that help their argument whilst brazenly ignoring others. That’s not fair.

So yes, your characterisation is a false equivalence.

And to be absolutely clear it is possible to be ENIC out by appealing to evidence and reason and you have expressed yourself very well.

Ultimately if this has turned into a kind of frustrating politics then it’s because most people are not engaging in good faith. On that we agree. But it’s not really both sides - if this is going to be useful we need both sides to agree to the kind of discourse you promote.

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Look mate, people from both sides of the fence post in a manner that they believe in, including the ENIC in mob such as yourself.
Both sides, I feel are entrenched, I do read posts from yourself, but, what I do find from the ENIC in crew, is a sense of superiority.
Many times they are, patronising and condescending in tone, this just puts people's backs up, who in return start insulting you lot.
Nobody wins in this instance, everyone is looking to point score IMO.
I admit, I'm ENIC out and have been for years, I feel that we can't go any further with them.
I have seen posters suggest that, we should be happy with 7th, but I disagree especially when we are paying such high prices.
Levy informed us that the stadium was or is a game changer, yet it hasn't got itself any nearer to challenging the big boys.
The club has far more money at it's disposal to spend and still not affect FFP, but the club appear not to be interested in ambition and on the pitch success.
It's 23 years and counting, and we are no nearer success than when they took over, the next managerial appointment, I feel will be again underwhelming, with levy determined to do it his way, which hasn't worked so far.
Can't say that I'm looking forward to next season with any hope or conviction.

 

[LeParisien]

Look mate, people from both sides of the fence post in a manner that they believe in, including the ENIC in mob such as yourself.
Both sides, I feel are entrenched, I do read posts from yourself, but, what I do find from the ENIC in crew, is a sense of superiority.
Many times they are, patronising and condescending in tone, this just puts people's backs up, who in return start insulting you lot.
Nobody wins in this instance, everyone is looking to point score IMO.
I admit, I'm ENIC out and have been for years, I feel that we can't go any further with them.
I have seen posters suggest that, we should be happy with 7th, but I disagree especially when we are paying such high prices.
Levy informed us that the stadium was or is a game changer, yet it hasn't got itself any nearer to challenging the big boys.
The club has far more money at it's disposal to spend and still not affect FFP, but the club appear not to be interested in ambition and on the pitch success.
It's 23 years and counting, and we are no nearer success than when they took over, the next managerial appointment, I feel will be again underwhelming, with levy determined to do it his way, which hasn't worked so far.
Can't say that I'm looking forward to next season with any hope or conviction.

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Thank you for putting across your point of view respectfully.

I have definitely been condescending in the past. Sometimes I have done that out of frustration but mostly when I get insulted abused. If I put in time to explain my view fairly and clearly and then I get “levy cuntbot” comments on response… I don’t always reply with the respect that is most productive. Let’s face it, people condescend themselves when they make dumb comments.

But it is always retaliatory and I don’t think anyone can say they’ve been more patient in trying to engage on this divisive issue or out across the evidence and reasons for their view.

Ultimately we’re all spurs here and there should be more that unites us than divides us.

 

[Mike81]

First season failing to qualify for Europe in something like 15 years.

A damning indictment of Levy’s shitshow handling of the managerial position.

Appoint a proper manager to replace Conte, and we’d have been near certs for top 6, with a decent shout of top 4.

 

[Honest John]

Levy out chants loud and proud today.

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Fantastic

 

[Honest John]

First season failing to qualify for Europe in something like 15 years.

A damning indictment of Levy’s shitshow handling of the managerial position.

Appoint a proper manager to replace Conte, and we’d have been near certs for top 6, with a decent shout of top 4.

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Levy effectively wrote the season off with 10 games left and the team in 4th.

A shocking, disgraceful betrayal of our supporters. Especially those who'd shelled out hundreds or even thousands on Season Tickets.

 

[The Extra Mile(sey)]

8th place finish

A season of real overachievement

Incredible to see how far we've come under ENIC

 

[Lumiere]

Levy in!

 

[Samisspurs]

If anyone can keep Harry here its Levy.

But if the price of ENIC going was losing Kane I'd take it

 

[skywalker68]

Thank you for putting across your point of view respectfully.

I have definitely been condescending in the past. Sometimes I have done that out of frustration but mostly when I get insulted abused. If I put in time to explain my view fairly and clearly and then I get “levy cuntbot” comments on response… I don’t always reply with the respect that is most productive. Let’s face it, people condescend themselves when they make dumb comments.

But it is always retaliatory and I don’t think anyone can say they’ve been more patient in trying to engage on this divisive issue or out across the evidence and reasons for their view.

Ultimately we’re all spurs here and there should be more that unites us than divides us.

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I agree with the notion that, we are all spurs fans etc.
I think you are, by the way you write, a clever fella, you probably have degrees and masters coming out your arse.
But I don't need, any qualifications to see that, our chairman and board are pulling the pants down of ALL supporters.
And that is something, that surely all of us can see, we are not being geared towards success only eventual sale.

 

[le grand coq]

There are about 5 or 6 Levy In posters who have posted regularly - Get in! , AberdeenYid , le grand coq , LeParisien , stevee maybe scarletjim … these posters all appeal to reason and evidence rather than entrenched positions. Is there anyone I’m forgetting in my bias? They’re clearly some of the posters more comfortable developing an argument.

Only arguable one is professional contrarian Shadydan who is ENIC out but argues with everyone.

There are maybe 15/16 regular posters who are ENIC Out and maybe 2 or 3 of those who appeal to reason and evidence. The rest dismissively say the time for discussion has passed or cherry pick the contextual factors that help their argument whilst brazenly ignoring others. That’s not fair.

So yes, your characterisation is a false equivalence.

And to be absolutely clear it is possible to be ENIC out by appealing to evidence and reason and you have expressed yourself very well.

Ultimately if this has turned into a kind of frustrating politics then it’s because most people are not engaging in good faith. On that we agree. But it’s not really both sides - if this is going to be useful we need both sides to agree to the kind of discourse you promote.

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Exactly. I'm am not even particularly Enic in tbh. They may have taken the club as far as they can? I just don't think they are destroying the club like many seem to say.

So just pointing out that they have not been the catastrophic failure that many of the shouty 'entitled' lot constantly make out.

They have done an absolute fantastic job with the stadium & training ground. FACT

They have been successful in maintaining our position as a top 8 club in an increasingly tough football landscape where other similar sized clubs have struggled. FACT

Negative. They have not been as successful as we wanted in the cups.

It's not rocket science.