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Management ENIC

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ENIC In or ENIC Out

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Shadydan said:
But here's the thing, how do you know he's involved going off a still, when you say involved are you suggesting that he is taking charge of the training? Do you think he's setting up the training cones? Telling Ange what to do and how to coach the team, what does the term involved really mean to you?

You then go onto mention transfers and making sure things are running smoothly in the background, well again him being on tour on a training pitch is a total contradiction to that so I'm not entirely sure what your point is?

I think you have probably taken this 'football operations' things too literally, taking a step back football operations has always been about him undermining his managers and stepping in when he's not needed because he generally has never had a clue on how to run the club, what you're suggesting here is that he's doing that to Ange which I've never heard of Levy taking control of training or just being present on the training field in my life.

Have you ever thought to yourself that he's most probably there to bond with his manager and the players, has it ever crossed your mind that he took a picture for it for a bit of PR which I wouldn't put it past them to do? I don't think we need to go all Colombo on a picture when there really is nothing to it.
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Involved in this situation means making his presence known to all involved in the footballing operations (manager and players) that he is overlooking things at all times, that he is included in the football side of things.

This is why we have had situations in the past where players are going over the managers head imo, it just screams micromangement to me.

Again, you're reframing what I said, I didn't say related to transfers, I said business operations.

I am talking football operations in a literal sense because that's exactly what it is, Daniel Levy shouldn't be anywhere near a training pitch, first team canteen, team talk, dressing room or training facilities, he is a chairman, not a footballer, not a manager, not the tea lady.


The only role he should play at this club is enhancing the clubs portfolio and managing infrastructure and allocating funds to the footballing experts, that is it, end of.

If him being in Australia will enhance the clubs portfolio then fair enough, if it is for other business purposes then fair enough but if he is there just to be there and overlook things then, imo, he has no justification other than to micromanage.

If this IS a PR operation then he really hasn't been listening much has he? The number one complaint from many people is that he is a meddler and it isn't particularly good PR to make it seem like that's what you're doing.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Ok, so if nobody can answer that question then it stands to reason all possibilities are on the table and no single opinion is correct, right?

Well if that's the case then one can hold the opinion that he may not actually be stepping back from football operations, in the same way that one could argue that him being there has no relevance to that assumption.

it just looks like he is still very involved in football operations to me as I don't see a logical purpose for him being there?

Anything business related could have been conducted from London surely? Unless he is there to specifically meet someone?
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We don’t have the facts or know. A chairman going on a trip away like this does not imply anything. The logical mistake you are making is to assume that because we don’t know why he’s out there, all possibilities are equally likely. They aren’t.

However, I have been flown places for work at great expense for reasons that seemed to me to be extremely menial. I am not chairman. I can promise you thé cost of sending Levy out is tiny and inconsequential. They didn’t need to get a bigger plane. They need 50/60 hotel rooms so one or two more is a very small additional cost.

There is clearly a business and political dimension to this tour - that’s why teams have games in different continents. They aren’t flying there for high altitude training or because they can’t play West Ham anywhere closer!

The criticism just looks like hysteria.
 
Shadydan said:
From a still picture yes.

The same way that people were having a go at Ndombele's body language on getting out of that car last week and deducting all sort of things from it due to their confirmation bias.
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I mean, deduction is a form of logical reasoning which draws conclusions from general observations and previous historical facts to reach a conclusion.

So you could argue that it's not entirely unreasonable to think he was less than excited to be at training based on his previous history.

Although I will concede and say it's entirely unreliable to rely on body language as a determining factor and that does generally come from a position of confirmation bias.

I think, speaking for myself, I am just concerned that Levy being there is a sign of him overseeing footballing matters, of which he was expected to take a step away from in light of previous involvement seemingly causing issues.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I mean, deduction is a form of logical reasoning which draws conclusions from general observations and previous historical facts to reach a conclusion.

So you could argue that it's not entirely unreasonable to think he was less than excited to be at training based on his previous history.

Although I will concede and say it's entirely unreliable to rely on body language as a determining factor and that does generally come from a position of confirmation bias.

I think, speaking for myself, I am just concerned that Levy being there is a sign of him overseeing footballing matters, of which he was expected to take a step away from in light of previous involvement seemingly causing issues.
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Levy is always there. He was there in Korea last season with Conte.

Just because Levy is assembling a football structure beneath him does not mean he will never be present. Do you expect him to stop attending matches at WHL as well, as those are technically a footballing matter?
 
A lot of Levy defenders on here today....and every single day for that matter!

It just looks...weird to me. Surprised he doesn't ask the players for a kick about!

What about that Cullen woman? Why is she there? What does she even do? Who appointed her?
 
Col_McCafferty said:
A lot of Levy defenders on here today....and every single day for that matter!

It just looks...weird to me. Surprised he doesn't ask the players for a kick about!

What about that Cullen woman? Why is she there? What does she even do? Who appointed her?
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A chairman going on a preseason tour is strange to you?

Is that because chairmen don’t normally go with the team on preseason tours?
 
Col_McCafferty said:
A lot of Levy defenders on here today....and every single day for that matter!

It just looks...weird to me. Surprised he doesn't ask the players for a kick about!

What about that Cullen woman? Why is she there? What does she even do? Who appointed her?
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No doubt Levy’s son is wafting about there too. Cullen is clueless - overpaid and under qualified. His echo chamber needs to be nuked
 
This site LMAO

Of all the things to have a pop at Levy and people are having a go cos he's with the team.

Coming out with mind reading shit to justify their position.

The best one are the ones saying "Nobody likes the boss looking over their shoulder whilst they're working, he shouldn't be there"

Hilary Duff Lol GIF by YoungerTV


Levy attends every fucking game FFS.
 
LeParisien said:
We don’t have the facts or know. A chairman going on a trip away like this does not imply anything. The logical mistake you are making is to assume that because we don’t know why he’s out there, all possibilities are equally likely. They aren’t.

However, I have been flown places for work at great expense for reasons that seemed to me to be extremely menial. I am not chairman. I can promise you thé cost of sending Levy out is tiny and inconsequential. They didn’t need to get a bigger plane. They need 50/60 hotel rooms so one or two more is a very small additional cost.

There is clearly a business and political dimension to this tour - that’s why teams have games in different continents. They aren’t flying there for high altitude training or because they can’t play West Ham anywhere closer!

The criticism just looks like hysteria.
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Yet, they are because we have no evidence to suggest otherwise.

See this is why I find the hysteria argument redundant.

This isn't some right wing extremist view about how COVID was fake news; or some left wing extremist view point about how trans women ARE women, this also isn't some flat earth conspiracy or something completely illogical that could be regarded as hysterical.

This is quite literally me saying he could be out there for business reasons but it also concerns me he could be out there to keep tabs on things and micromanaging, this isn't far fetched for someone who has been known to be involved in deals down to the last detail, it's a repeated pattern.

Now, if I said to you that Antonio Conte was stubborn and that he played defensive football, would you say I was hysterical for suggesting that?

I don't know the man, so how can I make the assumption that he is stubborn right? I am not in the dressing room or at training so how can I assume he plays defensive football?

And yet, we know both of those things to be facts.
 
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StripiestPilot said:
Levy is always there. He was there in Korea last season with Conte.

Just because Levy is assembling a football structure beneath him does not mean he will never be present. Do you expect him to stop attending matches at WHL as well, as those are technically a footballing matter?
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Being in a crowd with 60,000 people is a bit different to being on a training pitch within arms distance of players and management.
 
Attending a match is different to attending a training camp which is focused on team building and fitness, and mainly a chance for the new manager to implement his ideas with the team.

Also, Levy isnt their manager.

It's called chain of command. A very fundamental principle of business and sports - I'd expect any average joe to understand this simple principle. A Chairman keeping a watchful eye over the team is stepping on Ange's toes.
 
stevee said:
This site LMAO

Of all the things to have a pop at Levy and people are having a go cos he's with the team.

Coming out with mind reading shit to justify their position.

The best one are the ones saying "Nobody likes the boss looking over their shoulder whilst they're working, he shouldn't be there"

Hilary Duff Lol GIF by YoungerTV


Levy attends every fucking game FFS.
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So do 60k others
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Involved in this situation means making his presence known to all involved in the footballing operations (manager and players) that he is overlooking things at all times, that he is included in the football side of things.

This is why we have had situations in the past where players are going over the managers head imo, it just screams micromangement to me.
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I see two problems here.

1) You're assuming that he is involving himself in footballing matters and undermining the coach by being on the tour when all you have as evidence is a still picture.

2) You've taking the word 'football operations' too literally, no-one has ever complained about Levy taking charge of training or being on the training pitch, you've created a strawman out of your incorrect assumptions.

Incomplete_usernam said:
Again, you're reframing what I said, I didn't say related to transfers, I said business operations.
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I don't think I did re-frame what you said, you literally said this:

This is after all the reason we had a DOF before, so Levy had more time to deal with other aspects of the club, was it not? So he wouldn't have to be completely involved in transfers etc, otherwise a DOF is pretty pointless imo.
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Incomplete_usernam said:
I am talking football operations in a literal sense because that's exactly what it is, Daniel Levy shouldn't be anywhere near a training pitch, first team canteen, team talk, dressing room or training facilities, he is a chairman, not a footballer, not a manager, not the tea lady.
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You've never heard of CEO's bonding with their staff? Because for all we know that's what he could be doing, in fact chairman who do that are often looked on favorably because the staff see them as human and not hidden away unlike some chairman, this could be another way in which he is bonding with Ange and his team to foster a good relationship, how many times have we complained about there being a disconnect between manager and chairman?

Incomplete_usernam said:
The only role he should play at this club is enhancing the clubs portfolio and managing infrastructure and allocating funds to the footballing experts, that is it, end of.
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Which he can still do whilst he's there.


Incomplete_usernam said:
If him being in Australia will enhance the clubs portfolio then fair enough, if it is for other business purposes then fair enough but if he is there just to be there and overlook things then, imo, he has no justification other than to micromanage.
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There is total justification in which I have covered already, you just totally refuse to accept anything other than your personal paranoia.

Incomplete_usernam said:
If this IS a PR operation then he really hasn't been listening much has he? The number one complaint from many people is that he is a meddler and it isn't particularly good PR to make it seem like that's what you're doing.
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He's also been known to be aloof and not be on the same page as his managers so people would easily complain why he isn't bonding with the coach and the management team etc...

At this point it doesn't matter what he does, it will draw criticism, I just find some of it absolutely hysterical and OTT
 
I don’t think anyone is being particularly hysterical about this. And it’s well within posters rights to ask about Levy’s motivations.

As long as nobody is looking for the answer to those questions as none of us has any idea whatsoever.
 
stevee said:
This site LMAO

Of all the things to have a pop at Levy and people are having a go cos he's with the team.

Coming out with mind reading shit to justify their position.

The best one are the ones saying "Nobody likes the boss looking over their shoulder whilst they're working, he shouldn't be there"

Hilary Duff Lol GIF by YoungerTV


Levy attends every fucking game FFS.
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I wonder when we passed the point of mass hysteria levels?, I think it's generally unhealthy that people obsess over one person like this to the point where of illogical thoughts, it's utterley mental.
 
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