Post of the Thread
Accurate, factual, and brimming with common sense.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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Post of the Thread
Accurate, factual, and brimming with common sense.
24k Messages in 3 years, why would I be angry that you're parroting shit tweets because you don't have a fucking clue?You posted this at 9:57am on a Saturday, do you normally wake up this angry lmao
Chill out mate, shit ain't that deep, learn to have a bit of fun once in a while
There’s a few like that on here!
Yep, it's a load of nonsense. Pretty sure Klopp took them to a final in his first season didn't he? Europa league final against Sevilla which they lost.
People always go on about Klopp as an excuse to give the manager time. He is literally one of the GOATs in PL history and from the moment they took over Liverpool became an animal. The board also gave him huge signings in key players. Their trajectory was just up and up and up from the moment he arrived.
They signed Salah and Mane, we signed Werner on loan and Johnson. The situations aren't remotely comparable.
I don't think anyone on here has a clue mate, we're all football fans so we have our own opinions...
You've definitely woken up on the wrong side of the bed this morning though and it's hilarious to read because you're obviously pining for some sort of argument
I don't know I might bite to your desperation one day, gotta join the queue though hehe
Mate, at the end of Klopps first season they reached the Europa League final. I think it's you who has amnesia. Under Ange we went out of both cups early and since Xmas have got progressively worse.
Klopp was literally special the moment he arrived, Ange...not even comparable.
Remember Arteta won the FA Cup in his first season, it was a sign he had something about him.
Ange has done nothing for us since he arrived, out of both cups early, and apart from the first 10 games, we've been midtable.
He's far more likely to be a fraud than he is the next Klopp or Arteta at this stage unfortunately.
Agreed especially Ange and academy players. It’s not gonna happen for whatever reason. Every club played their youth. Dippers even win a cup final with young players. Ange has so far shown no faith in them. I bet if say Alfie or donley were at Liverpool kloop would have bloodied them into first team squad. Ange has not shown any faith.
The fans are mostly irrelevant. A lot of Arse fans where big Arteta out but he got lucky with Covid and closed doors just like us with Jose, little pressure at the ground.
Only issue if our fans turn is would Levy dump him. Even when the fans have mostly been in the managers favour (Jol, Redknapp, Poch) Levy still booted them. I have no issue backing Ange and building a young team but not if the board boot him at the first major issue then hire a defensive coach for us to go on yet another rebuild (which based on our history could easily happen!). As a club we have never truly backed a manager long term in a real and thoughtful way. This might be different but if it isn’t we will be back to square one at some point. The club have to prove to me it’s different this time. We effectively wasted 3-4 years pissing around with Jose/Nuno/Conte when we could have been doing a long term rebuild.
none of this is Ange’s fault but those are the cards he has been dealt.
Hmm yeah good post *clap gif* I think generally you're right - ENIC will run the club the way they see fit - The problem with them (at least recently) is not hiring the right managers to fit the ethos of their philosophy hence why Ange is perfect for them...because he is willing to accept what they give and willing to own the fact that he's being backed but here is what I disagree with because 2 things can actually be true...
Ange specifically wants the right players for his system and if you look we bought it young hungry impressionable players for his system, players that will run through brick walls for a manager and run themselves into the ground are generally young players so signing the likes of Bergval, Odobertl and Gray to add them to an already experienced midfield makes sense. The likes of Solake is the perfect striker who fits his system, like you wouldn't find a better striker who fits what he wants on the market and one especially with Prem exp so why are we adamant that it's a club signing?
Also why are we acting as if he has exclusively been given young players since he's been at the club, last season we purchase these players for the manager with their ages at the time:
Maddison (26)
Johnson (22)
Van De Ven (21)
Dragusin (21)
Vicario (26)
Veliz (18)
Phillips (17)
Solomon (22)
Werner (26)
So last year if we were going down project yout dem then the vast majority of our business would have been Teens, no? I only count 2 out of 9 and I haven't even included Kulu or Porro either because we know what happens when you mention them
, yeah the majority you could say are young or youngish players but they all have prior experience playing at a decent level previously so the Math ain't really Mathing my friend.So I don't buy the fact that Ange didn't want these players and despite him constantly blustering about challenging for the league he keeps making reference to a project and being here for a while so if that's the case then you should probably expect that the club will tend to bring players in on the young side.
Pointing to last season as some sort of evidence of him not playing young players is entirely pointless for many reasons unless you think the likes of Moore and Lankshear and Donley were ready to step up to the level (they weren't) and besides we literally had a season of PL matches anyway so he hardly had any matches to play them anyway so when do you really expect 16/17 year olds who aren't yet ready for men's football to be Prem ready?
let's just use a bit of critical thinking and stop all this is he being backed narrative, it's so boring and lacks a load of context - of course he's being backed, it's just not the way you want him to be backed.
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Neither of them had to deal with a loss as big as Kane’s though. Even when Coutinho left you got the sense that Klopp never was truly bothered. Klopp got battered by Emery’s Sevilla btw and finished 8th losing 10 out of his 30 games.
Arteta has got a long way to reach Klopp, he won his cup with Emery’s players. Since then… what makes him any better than Poch? Poch didn’t need to spend £650mil either.
You guys are no better than Levy. To be honest, his record of hiring and firing managers is perfectly in line with Spurs fan’s attitude.
Arteta has already proven himself better than Poch unfortunately. Two top 2 finishes eclipses anything Poch managed with us. They've actually been in proper title races, not the pretend race we were in where we never really looked like threatening. Poch even let Leicester win the league in front of us, that should have been our year but we lost at home to them.
Arteta has also won an FA Cup.
I'll give you the Kane loss, and that is definitely in Ange's favour. I just don't see it with him unfortunately. I think he's naive and a side is a mirror of the manager. Hope he proves me wrong.
Arteta has had backing on another level to Poch. We finished 2nd under Poch and were probably 1-2 players away from winning the league. Poch had a good first 11 and no depth and the rebuild came when the team was dead on its feet, despite that we still got to a CL final.
Arteta is a good coach but with Edu as Sporting Director and Josh Kronke who seems determined to get trophies for Woolwich the set-up is bang on. If Arteta was with us and he finished 8th twice he would have been sacked and everyone would have seen him as a bum.
Its far harder to be a coach with us than Woolwich, Woolwich with the current set-up is manager on easy mode. Sadly the current Arse team is also depth wise stronger than anything we have ever had certainly in my lifetime.
I do agree with you there. Arteta has had backing and they are very well run unfortunately.
Well the math ain't mathing because your definition of young is off. 6 out the 9 you mention are absolutely within the definition - you're pretending as if being young is confined to being a teenager. Furthermore, Werner is ON LOAN, he's not a long term squad investment. Vicaro is a goal keeper - that is a position which is always resvered for experience, are you kidding me? It's extremely rare to get a super young goal keeper. Maddison was a complete no brainer transfer which was never predicated on his age. Playermakers (a position we've lacked since Eriksen left) rely on experience on reading the game and he was one of the most experienced PL playmaker and his club were just relegated. That was a Levy deal come hell or high water, let's not forget we were tracking Maddison years prior back in his Coventry days. Why list numbers without context...
Sure, let’s pretend we didn’t have a defensive injury crisis and went to the extent of playing a shit right back in Emerson Royal as center back (and DIRECTLY paying for that decision multiple times) whilst Ashley Philips was sat on the bench receiving zero minutes. Royal being so shit he was eventually sold yet in your world there were no opportunities to even accept the risk was worth giving a Phillips, a player we fucking paid cash for, a chance.
Re-defining what it means to be backed doesn't mean the man is being backed. He is operating within his parameters i.e. he has been briefed on the strategy and the player profile and he is making decisions based on those limitations, which are significant limitations. Putting a toddler in the confines of a play-pen and dropping in a choice of toys is not free rein. Absolutely both manager and club can be tracking a player and stars align i.e. Bergwin under Mourinho (re-watch the amazon doc episode if you want). This is very different from a manager identifying a player first and convincing the club.
Many people on here have said we're going through what the Arse did with Arteta, but we're not. Arteta is a perfect example of what being backed means. His club came out and directly told decenting fans to shut the fuck up and let him cook whilst he he was struggling - 8th, 8th and 5th. Levy will never utter a single word in defence of his manager, he will always choose to hold the card to throw a manager under the bus. The only time you hear from Levy is once a manager has been future endeavored and the obligatory "we've lost our way" club statement subtle dig comes out. Arteta hand picked rice for 100 mill, that's backing, he hand picked Havertz despite being relentlessly mocked by the media for showing any interest in the first place. Arteta believed he could mould him despite the glaringly obvious need for a out and out center forward. The club trusted the decision. That is a manager being backed.
But my friend I'm going by your own definition because you said this:
I'm sorry unless I'm mistaken you are citing project yout dem as and cited 18 year olds being in the team and you're citing our academy players who are in fact...teens so I think you need to pick an argument here and just stick with it.Regardless The literal definition of young is totally subjective regardless so we'll be here all day arguing about it so it's a bit pointless going back and forth, my point is though that we aren't flooding the squad exclusively with teens which would be the easy thing to do if your the board who are just looking purely for value and a sure fire way to throw a manager under the bus, as far as I'm concerned that isn't happening, let's be fair in our judgements.
Okay you can have Werner and Vicario fine but I'm not having the rest of your mental gymnastics, sorry.
Maddison being a 'complete no brainer' due to him being a playmaker of his age is a load of nonsense and you know it, the bottom line is you can protest and give me all these desperate excuses all you want at the end of the day we signed a player in his prime, if not coming into his prime at 26 years of age - we also made him our 2nd highest paid player and out vice captain...so much for project 'yout dem' hey...
Eh? What does this have to do with the price of fish lmao
As is every manager in the Premier League and the vast majority of clubs in world football, welcome to the real world.
Like every manager for the most part don't get to pick their players mate, this isn't the 90s anymore they're not going out there and picking players themselves...the way football clubs operate particularly within a DOF structure they will have a philosophy that operates within a certain means and will hire a manager to fit that exact philosophy , that's literally how it's meant to work hence why we bought in Lange to maintain those standards and work the coach on what type of player he wants.
And not even the likes of Klopp or Arteta had that sort of autonomy on players until they could be trusted, they only really got to start picking their own players when they were in after a certain amount of time anyway, you ever hear the story of Klopp wanting Julian Brandt and Michael Edwards choosing Salah over him and they fell out? Klopp didn't choose Van Dijk or Allison by the way - that was all Edwards...in fact the moment that Edwards left Liverpool gave Klopp autonomy and they bought in duds like Nunez and Gakpo and started to plateau, go figure...
Arteta? Haha The guy literally missed out on his first choice targets in Caicedo, Mudryk, Zubimendi, Buendia and Mason Mount - what are you talking about?
And like I said before comparing us to Arse and Arteta to Ange is such a massive false equivalence anyway:Before the Rice transfer Arteta had to prove to his club that he could firstly improve his players which he did therefore he has bought value directly back into the club...like for example if Arse were to sell Saka, Saliba and Martinelli they could legit ask for over £200m.
Also Arse have shown gradual improvement every season and he had them in a title challenge - basically he has gained trust from his bosses...like he would never have been able to get Rice in his 2nd season which Ange is in now, he's in year 4 so until Ange can prove the above which he needs to he isn't going to get that sort of autonomy and backing regardless.
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Fair play for today, great response after the Leicester game, more of the same please Ange.
Oh look we scored a set piece
Better not mention that to
The Mercurial No.10
he might get angry about it lmao 