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Though I can see where you're coming from - you're a journey guy, and not so much destination - that post still filled me with sadness.
Why?

Football means different things to different people. Why would what I would take pleasure from sadden you?

Clearly, there are those that are well content with the experience of supporting a club for matchday-to-matchday feels and prospect development..

Some will live a duality of enjoying the youth come through, but still be laser focused on destination and practical, tangible measures to get there, and be upset if this is not the case.

In many ways, Football is a reflection of life. If your focus is purely on the destination, which it is for many, you'll miss an awful lot of joy from the journey. If the destination isn't everything you envisioned it to be, you'll just end up bitterly regretting everything.
We were given a destination by Ange.

And we're still on the journey towards it. There's no expiry date, it's not this season or bust. It's also not linear, as we have multiple teams all with the same destination in mind, and all looking to prevent us from getting there.
I expected measures to fully aid us in arriving there.Instead, it would seem we've stopped dead in our tracks.
That's your perception. The fact that it's not shared by all should at least make you question that.

When we have the manager and now Lange saying we're moving in the direction that we've planned, it gets really tiresome reading the same tired old "toeing the company line" rhetoric. Essentially they're being called liars. I found the Lange interview extremely interesting, in that it shows a crystal clear plan, to me anyway. They're looking to ensure we have longevity in our competitiveness by bringing in players who will grow with the project.
To use an analogy, they're making the cake, you don't put the icing on until that is done.
For me, personally, it stinks to high heaven.

I think that's purely because you're not seeing the plan. I'll nick a line from Al Pacino in Oceans 13 here, you want the baby, but you don't want the labour pains.
And for all the faith I've lost in Ange, if he manages to get something decent out of our season, he'll have my utmost respect.
Let's revisit this at the end of the season then, instead of venting at what is perceived by you and others as failure after 2 games. Until then, maybe enjoying the positives, rather than laser focussing on any and all negatives, might just bring you a bit more joy?

Let me ask you a couple of questions. How old were you when you started following Spurs? When you did, was it all about the trophies?
 
Why?

Football means different things to different people. Why would what I would take pleasure from sadden you?



In many ways, Football is a reflection of life. If your focus is purely on the destination, which it is for many, you'll miss an awful lot of joy from the journey. If the destination isn't everything you envisioned it to be, you'll just end up bitterly regretting everything.


And we're still on the journey towards it. There's no expiry date, it's not this season or bust. It's also not linear, as we have multiple teams all with the same destination in mind, and all looking to prevent us from getting there.

That's your perception. The fact that it's not shared by all should at least make you question that.

When we have the manager and now Lange saying we're moving in the direction that we've planned, it gets really tiresome reading the same tired old "toeing the company line" rhetoric. Essentially they're being called liars. I found the Lange interview extremely interesting, in that it shows a crystal clear plan, to me anyway. They're looking to ensure we have longevity in our competitiveness by bringing in players who will grow with the project.
To use an analogy, they're making the cake, you don't put the icing on until that is done.


I think that's purely because you're not seeing the plan. I'll nick a line from Al Pacino in Oceans 13 here, you want the baby, but you don't want the labour pains.

Let's revisit this at the end of the season then, instead of venting at what is perceived by you and others as failure after 2 games. Until then, maybe enjoying the positives, rather than laser focussing on any and all negatives, might just bring you a bit more joy?

Let me ask you a couple of questions. How old were you when you started following Spurs? When you did, was it all about the trophies?
Im really interested in the answer to your question.

I also note the sustained double standard. All the good things are the result of the manager and all the bad things the result of the chairman. It’s motivated reasoning.
 
Though I can see where you're coming from - you're a journey guy, and not so much destination - that post still filled me with sadness.

Clearly, there are those that are well content with the experience of supporting a club for matchday-to-matchday feels and prospect development..

Some will live a duality of enjoying the youth come through, but still be laser focused on destination and practical, tangible measures to get there, and be upset if this is not the case.

We were given a destination by Ange.

I expected measures to fully aid us in arriving there.

Instead, it would seem we've stopped dead in our tracks.

For me, personally, it stinks to high heaven.

And for all the faith I've lost in Ange, if he manages to get something decent out of our season, he'll have my utmost respect.
Rather than put a disagree on it, I'll just ask the question - when you say:

"We were given a destination by Ange"

...what do you mean by that exactly?

As far as I'm aware, Ange has stated what he would like to achieve with us (similar to what most managers of similar level clubs would like I guess), and has admittedly said that he 'usually wins something in his second season', but is that what you have interpreted as 'given a destination'? If so then for me that's pushing it a bit. (If you meant something else,then apologies for my misunderstanding :) ).

One thing I always find amusing about the more negative posters on here is that they always seem to say they expected more, despite having said many times that nothing ever changes and the board always fails us etc - in that case, why would you expect more? So when you say "I expected measures to fully aid us in arriving there", is that true, did you genuinely expect that the measures you deem appropriate would be taken? Why would you expect that, given that in the opinions you express here regularly, in your view we never take the appropriate measures? It doesn't stack up. :/

In any case, we most certainly haven't "stopped dead in our tracks" - we have removed nearly all of the deadwood from last summer for a start, which is actually quite incredible when you think how many players that is. Arguably only Reggie remains. Admittedly many of those we've brought in are very young, but given the clearout I don't think anyone can reasonably say we've "stopped dead in our tracks".

So whilst I can understand the sentiment to some extent in some of that post, the hyperbole hugely detracts from any real credibility, well for me anyway.
 
If either of those players had that exact same game at home to Everton nobody would even notice it and they’d get a 6 or a 7/10 at an absolute stretch.

Cannot believe anyone needs this spelled out, but….

Odobert is 19 years old. When he has a performance like he did against Everton it’s exciting because it represents a platform to build on.

If Sterling or Sancho have that performance, you know they’re the finished product already and that’s all they have to offer.
 
Why?

Football means different things to different people. Why would what I would take pleasure from sadden you?



In many ways, Football is a reflection of life. If your focus is purely on the destination, which it is for many, you'll miss an awful lot of joy from the journey. If the destination isn't everything you envisioned it to be, you'll just end up bitterly regretting everything.


And we're still on the journey towards it. There's no expiry date, it's not this season or bust. It's also not linear, as we have multiple teams all with the same destination in mind, and all looking to prevent us from getting there.

That's your perception. The fact that it's not shared by all should at least make you question that.

When we have the manager and now Lange saying we're moving in the direction that we've planned, it gets really tiresome reading the same tired old "toeing the company line" rhetoric. Essentially they're being called liars. I found the Lange interview extremely interesting, in that it shows a crystal clear plan, to me anyway. They're looking to ensure we have longevity in our competitiveness by bringing in players who will grow with the project.
To use an analogy, they're making the cake, you don't put the icing on until that is done.


I think that's purely because you're not seeing the plan. I'll nick a line from Al Pacino in Oceans 13 here, you want the baby, but you don't want the labour pains.

Let's revisit this at the end of the season then, instead of venting at what is perceived by you and others as failure after 2 games. Until then, maybe enjoying the positives, rather than laser focussing on any and all negatives, might just bring you a bit more joy?

Let me ask you a couple of questions. How old were you when you started following Spurs? When you did, was it all about the trophies?
This is the thing, tho.

If Baldcunt was an honest man, he'd have told Ange we'd be on simmer, building up a new youth project, mindful of wage spend.

Fans would have bought into it and calibrated accordingly.

Instead, Ange comes out full of it (likely pumped full of baldcunt lies) talking like we're on a rolling boil and he's gonna do a Celtic with us.

Fans minds are set to success and then we expect. Naturally.

Many expected the problems of last season, that would prevent us from having the success Ange has been talking about, would be properly addressed.

Also, spurs fans, in general, have been amazingly patient without full-on rioting, after not winning anything for so long.

We were all on-board with Poch's youth rebuild and it was clear, up front, what the project was.

And we all enjoyed that road to us being a very good team (apart from the last 2 years).

Being over THE (eternal) JOURNEY and putting focus on actually WINNING something is not some sort of deficiency.

What are we doing???

Levy said we're building the stadium - with all the price rises that go with it - to take the club to the top echelon.

Now he's having wage-save windows???

Really, I have no idea what's happened to football fandom, generally.

It's not just this club tbf.

But I just can't relate to it.
 
Rather than put a disagree on it, I'll just ask the question - when you say:

"We were given a destination by Ange"

...what do you mean by that exactly?


As far as I'm aware, Ange has stated what he would like to achieve with us (similar to what most managers of similar level clubs would like I guess), and has admittedly said that he 'usually wins something in his second season', but is that what you have interpreted as 'given a destination'? If so then for me that's pushing it a bit. (If you meant something else,then apologies for my misunderstanding :) ).

One thing I always find amusing about the more negative posters on here is that they always seem to say they expected more, despite having said many times that nothing ever changes and the board always fails us etc - in that case, why would you expect more? So when you say "I expected measures to fully aid us in arriving there", is that true, did you genuinely expect that the measures you deem appropriate would be taken? Why would you expect that, given that in the opinions you express here regularly, in your view we never take the appropriate measures? It doesn't stack up. :/

In any case, we most certainly haven't "stopped dead in our tracks" - we have removed nearly all of the deadwood from last summer for a start, which is actually quite incredible when you think how many players that is. Arguably only Reggie remains. Admittedly many of those we've brought in are very young, but given the clearout I don't think anyone can reasonably say we've "stopped dead in our tracks".

So whilst I can understand the sentiment to some extent in some of that post, the hyperbole hugely detracts from any real credibility, well for me anyway.

Are we really going to pretend Ange hasn't spoken about challenging at the highest level?

“As somebody said to me last week, ‘Just do your job, Ange’. And my job is to try to bring success, and if you don’t think you’re going to be in the title race in 12 months’ time, then I don’t know why I’m here.

"We want to keep building on the foundation of being a team that hopefully in 12 months' time people are talking about us differently."



He's made several such statements since being here.

And if that's the destination, what we have done this summer - after the way the latter half of last season went - is not sufficient to fix the issues we had and cater for it.

Not with the way he wants to play.
 
We have signed a top EPL proven goalscorer.

Top goalscorer?

He's had one good season in his career, to date.

I'd need another season of it, before going that far.

We have signed a great EPL proven winger.

Odobert??

A great prem proven winger???

lol

Looks like he's got a lot of potential, but we'll have to see where it properly lands over time.

Bergvall turned down Barca to join us.

lol wtf so what?

I love this kid, but he's still 18 and we can't hang so much on him having bangers every week.

Bonkers to even have to.

Still yet to see how he takes with all the pressure etc.

Gray turned down Brentford.

wtaf dude, so what??!

He's 18 and is gonna need time to settle in the prem for the first time and we have no idea if he'll hack it.

Ange has said he is very happy with the progress we have made. Unlike you and others, I don't hink he is lying and I am confident we will be better this season than last.

None of what you mentioned is likely to do that tho.

We needed proper tried and tested QUALITY signings to help fix the issues we had last season.

We all knew that.

Ange's way of playing needs proper seasoned quality.

If we'd have just gotten eze, neto, gray, Solanke (bergval was already ours) we'd be rocking.

Do the rest next year, but at least give Ange that.

Instead we shaped it around wage bill reduction (clearly).

Also, I don't believe Ange is happy.

I think he's going along with it in the biggest job he's ever had, at the biggest club he's ever managed.

Baldcunt should have brought him in and told him up front we're gonna be leaning towards a new youth project and allow him to come out and tell the fans he's won the tesco treble 'n all that, but now he's here he's invested in building something new in the prem and hope the fans will be patient etc.

We'd have all gotten on that ride.

Instead he bowled in swinging his balls around.

No doubt with Bladcunt having lied through his teeth to him about his intentions.

Again, if Ange manages to steer this squad through injuries, suspensions, domestic cups, europe, on top of a 38 game prem - with our high risk wide open football - and come out the other end with something significant, then he really would be the chosen one he thinks he is.

And everyone who's doubted him would deserve to eat shit.
Fuck off, you cunt! Get a life.
 
This is the thing, tho.

If Baldcunt was an honest man, he'd have told Ange we'd be on simmer, building up a new youth project, mindful of wage spend.

You're projecting your perceptions here now. If you honestly think that the entire club is not aligned in their thinking now, then further discussion on that topic is pointless.
Fans would have bought into it and calibrated accordingly.
On that we'll have to disagree. You only need take this forum as a microcosm of the overall fan base, and see that there are those who will never be satisfied with calibrating accordingly. They want it all and they want it NOW.
Instead, Ange comes out full of it (likely pumped full of baldcunt lies) talking like we're on a rolling boil and he's gonna do a Celtic with us.

Again, your perception. He intends to win things, but he's been consistent in saying that it takes time. The first part of being a winner is believing that you'll be a winner.
Fans minds are set to success and then we expect. Naturally.

But your timeframe isn't necessarily theirs. You've extrapolated what you want to believe and set your expectations accordingly. He expects to be challenging, you interpret that as winning. Show me one quote he's made where he's said he expects to win the title this season.
Many expected the problems of last season, that would prevent us from having the success Ange has been talking about, would be properly addressed.

Again, we're only 2 games in, both of which we dominated. It's far too early to categorically state that we haven't addressed those problems.
Also, spurs fans, in general, have been amazingly patient without full-on rioting, after not winning anything for so long.

Agreed, some of us for a lot longer than others, and after having seen FAR worse.
We were all on-board with Poch's youth rebuild and it was clear, up front, what the project was.

And we all enjoyed that road to us being a very good team (apart from the last 2 years).

Being over THE (eternal) JOURNEY and putting focus on actually WINNING something is not some sort of deficiency.
At what point did I suggest it was a deficiency? That sounds more like you projecting insecurities. You think that because I enjoy the journey that I'm not bothered about the glory at the end of that road? It's the icing.
What are we doing???

Levy said we're building the stadium - with all the price rises that go with it - to take the club to the top echelon.

Now he's having wage-save windows???

Really, I have no idea what's happened to football fandom, generally.

It's not just this club tbf.

But I just can't relate to it.
It's a reset after a number of years of neglect. I posted a while ago that I felt that Levy took his eye off the ball and trusted the wrong people to manage the Football side, whilst he focused on getting the stadium build done. Now we're building a foundation which I believe is designed to ensure we don't suffer the same deterioration we saw under Poch. We built a side then with zero focus on longevity. I believe we've learnt from that and are building the foundation that we didn't have before.

It seems evident to me that you don't relate because you can't, or possibly won't, see the plan. It seems crystal clear to me. We've cleared out the surplus players, we've brought in young, hungry talent that want to play for us.

You'll read on here about how Woolwich have shown ambition by shelling out hundreds of millions on the likes of Rice, but what you don't read from those posters is how the filth cleared out their surplus players first, then brought in young, hungry players to replace them. Only after they'd integrated them with their young, hungry academy players, did they then shell out for the likes of Rice. Sound familiar?

Back to my analogy, they baked the cake then iced it.

You may not see it now, but the wage reduction will be a good thing going forward. It enables us to reward excellence in renewed contracts and wage increases for those who do excel. It also enables us to pay the wages for those players deemed as the "icing" when we're in a position to attract them.

You're an intelligent bloke thinky. You'll still have your doubts I'm sure, but I think you have enough about you to at least ruminate on what I've posted and question your own assertions. There are more than enough on here who refuse to see any point of view but their own, don't be one of them.

Lastly, I'll ask you again. How old were you when you began supporting Spurs, and was it our trophies that were your focus?
 
You're projecting your perceptions here now. If you honestly think that the entire club is not aligned in their thinking now, then further discussion on that topic is pointless.

On that we'll have to disagree. You only need take this forum as a microcosm of the overall fan base, and see that there are those who will never be satisfied with calibrating accordingly. They want it all and they want it NOW.


Again, your perception. He intends to win things, but he's been consistent in saying that it takes time. The first part of being a winner is believing that you'll be a winner.


But your timeframe isn't necessarily theirs. You've extrapolated what you want to believe and set your expectations accordingly. He expects to be challenging, you interpret that as winning. Show me one quote he's made where he's said he expects to win the title this season.


Again, we're only 2 games in, both of which we dominated. It's far too early to categorically state that we haven't addressed those problems.


Agreed, some of us for a lot longer than others, and after having seen FAR worse.

At what point did I suggest it was a deficiency? That sounds more like you projecting insecurities. You think that because I enjoy the journey that I'm not bothered about the glory at the end of that road? It's the icing.

It's a reset after a number of years of neglect. I posted a while ago that I felt that Levy took his eye off the ball and trusted the wrong people to manage the Football side, whilst he focused on getting the stadium build done. Now we're building a foundation which I believe is designed to ensure we don't suffer the same deterioration we saw under Poch. We built a side then with zero focus on longevity. I believe we've learnt from that and are building the foundation that we didn't have before.

It seems evident to me that you don't relate because you can't, or possibly won't, see the plan. It seems crystal clear to me. We've cleared out the surplus players, we've brought in young, hungry talent that want to play for us.

You'll read on here about how Woolwich have shown ambition by shelling out hundreds of millions on the likes of Rice, but what you don't read from those posters is how the filth cleared out their surplus players first, then brought in young, hungry players to replace them. Only after they'd integrated them with their young, hungry academy players, did they then shell out for the likes of Rice. Sound familiar?

Back to my analogy, they baked the cake then iced it.

You may not see it now, but the wage reduction will be a good thing going forward. It enables us to reward excellence in renewed contracts and wage increases for those who do excel. It also enables us to pay the wages for those players deemed as the "icing" when we're in a position to attract them.

You're an intelligent bloke thinky. You'll still have your doubts I'm sure, but I think you have enough about you to at least ruminate on what I've posted and question your own assertions. There are more than enough on here who refuse to see any point of view but their own, don't be one of them.

Lastly, I'll ask you again. How old were you when you began supporting Spurs, and was it our trophies that were your focus?
Long enough to have seen us win shit.

Irrelevant, anyway.

We haven't won shit in over two decades and baldcunt said the new stadium and new prices was a venture to catapult us to the top tier.

We still haven't won anything and are now doing wage-save windows (???).

We could go on for days and not agree.

Light years apart.

I can't reconcile the mindset, but you're experience of supporting the club is no doubt way more even and pleasant than the cliff-drop not-so-scenic route ride I feel I'm on.
 
Yeah I did one. Maybe you weren’t on the Board back then . I even had people calling me crazy for suggesting people would support levy over Kane & then it all came true. They said I had gone too far, I had lost my mind. Then further down the line certain people were rushing in support of levy whilst crucifying Kane. They made it clear who they favoured & backed. They were very defensive of their cult leader whilst sticking the knife in our legend on the pitch. I find it so odd & something that would only happen here.
Next you will be telling me people didn’t say no way levy signs no one & if he does I will lose my shit. I said they would just allow it if it happens. Guess what, he signed no one & instead of losing their shit they backed levy & started saying things like “who do you drop” & “spending doesn’t equate to success”.
I think you are very naive about the backing levy gets. People change their views 180 to line up with him. I had his fans telling me Jose is a toxic dinosaur & then when he appointed him…… serial winner! I could go on for days & bore you all more.
I’ve had lots of nasty personal abuse from his fans for being critical of levy & Enic. It’s Stan behaviour.
I think you're conflating a general acceptance that the ownership status of the club isn't something 99.9% of fans have any modicum of control over, and that they'd rather find the positives in what their club is trying to achieve than constantly allow something which is supposed to be a happy escape from everyday life turn into something that poisons your mind with constant bitterness and worry. What would be an appropriate show of faith in our talismanic legendary striker, burning all the Spurs memorabilia and buying a one way ticket to Munich? He didn't want to be here, we didn't have a choice to sell him, it's that simple. Levy told City to fuck off precisely one season earlier, you don't think he wanted Kane to stay? You're crazy if so, he brought in two win-now managers in a last-ditch effort to win Kane around, however short-sighted that was given our very glaring lack of blockbuster investment required for either of those managers to build a winning team, he clearly did it because he wanted to keep Kane at the club. How much of the discourse around Conte's second season at the beginning revolved around hoping we did well enough to convince both Conte and Kane to sign extensions?
 
Long enough to have seen us win shit.

Irrelevant, anyway.

We haven't won shit in over two decades and baldcunt said the new stadium and new prices was a venture to catapult us to the top tier.

We still haven't won anything and are now doing wage-save windows (???).

We could go on for days and not agree.

Light years apart.

I can't reconcile the mindset, but you're experience of supporting the club is no doubt way more even and pleasant than the cliff-drop not-so-scenic route ride I feel I'm on.
I guess I was wrong about you. Ah well.

That's twice now you've dodged my questions, which is just as telling as it would be if you'd actually answered, and to label your reason for following us as irrelevant?

That, more than anything else in this discourse, is sad.
 
I guess I was wrong about you. Ah well.

That's twice now you've dodged my questions, which is just as telling as it would be if you'd actually answered, and to label your reason for following us as irrelevant?

That, more than anything else in this discourse, is sad.
Erm, not sure why you'd think I care what you think about me.

Clear this is futile ping pong.

We're never going to agree.

Bit of a headfuck reading your posts tbh.

I just can't reconcile the mentality.

I think I just need to steer clear of a certain element of our fans.

Weirding me out.
 
Erm, not sure why you'd think I care what you think about me.
I don't, I think I made that quite clear.
Clear this is futile ping pong.

We're never going to agree.

Bit of a headfuck reading your posts tbh.

I just can't reconcile the mentality.

I think I just need to steer clear of a certain element of our fans.

Weirding me out.
You engaged me mate, not the other way round. If my posts bother you that much then why bother in the first place?

Once again you've resorted to the passive aggressive stance after what I thought was a quite reasonable discussion.

That is what is truly weird here.
 
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