Manager Ange Postecoglou

[Matt1882]

We hired Ange because he’s a serial winner, Conte because he’s a serial winner and Jose because he’s a serial winner. Who’s next Mr Kellog?

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Probably someone who wins a lot in the lower leagues. Don't want to change it too drastically from Ange.....

I see what Ange is building. We ARE dominating games, we are seeing the ball in the opps final third for much of the game. What we need is for the forwards to click and find their mojo in breaking down teams that park the bus. We won't improve in this are by sitting back.

If the forwards improve, we will be winning games by 2/3 goal margins every week.

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We're dominating possession.
We're not dominating games.
We had twice as many chances as Arse on Sunday. but their XG, from half as many chances was the same as ours.
It's an absolutely illusion that we're dominating games. The possession stats and touches in the box stats only tell us half the story. What good is a touch in the box when it's 1 Spurs player, with his back to goal, with 8 opposition defenders easily handling it?
What good is 75% of the ball when most of it is between the halfway line and the edge of the box with the entire opposing team between the goal and the ball?
What's the point in players like Johnson, Odobert, Son and Werner when we play a style of football that absolutely restricts space in the attacking 3rd? Those players need an open pitch to run into. They won't get it when the opposition have 11 men ahead of them and we have 8 or 9 of ours in there too.

Haaland would be less prolific in this system, especially with opposition players all being told drop back into shape, defend narrow, force the play out wide to players who can't cross and wait for the break each match.
The only player I've ever seen that seemed to be able to score with 3, 4, 5 players on him and between him and the goal was prime Messi.

 

[Matt1882]

He’s fucking correct here. Their corner came from one of ours. No top team should be having a corner at one end then having to defend one themselves 30 seconds later. The mistake was allowing the best set piece attacking team in the league the corner in the first place.

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The best way for us to defend corners at the moment is to stop giving them away.
And that means not leaving ourself short at the back and making last ditch blocks and tackles by the goal line.

 

[harry7]

The poch era was a lot more than just kane and alli bailing us out

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I'm not so sure we were as good as people seem to think. I remember being frustrated week after week as the team showed no urgency and just endlessly passed the ball sideways, waiting for Dele, Kane or Son to pull out a wonder goal from nowhere.

Poch was fortunate to take over as coach when Liverpool were getting 60 points a season under Brenda, Woolwich were on their last legs under Wenger, Chelsea were playing manager roulette, Pep hadn't arrived at City and United were a laughing stock.

Essentially Poch took over at probably at probably the weakest set of Premier League teams it has ever seen and failed to capitalize and ended up coming 3rd in a 2-horse race.

 

[Richard Arlison]

That is the point - our press has to fall bit deeper. It would not be a problem but a solution to our current worries.

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Couldn't disagree more.

The press creates 3 or 4 of the most dangerous situations you could hope for, every game. They are like counter attacks but they start 30 yards from goal and the opposition have even less time to recover.

What is the point in changing the system to not get those high turnovers so you can get turnovers further into your own half? when your forwards can't even execute from the turnovers right outside the opposition box?

Let's start by getting our forwards in form and in sync with each other so they can execute and convert the very high % opportunities higher up the pitch first and then go for more difficult counter attacks after that.

 

[harry7]

Probably someone who wins a lot in the lower leagues. Don't want to change it too drastically from Ange.....



We're dominating possession.
We're not dominating games.
.

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Woolwich couldn't keep the ball against us. We were pressing them and tackling the entire game and were forced back defending in their own 18-yard box. We were dominating the game.

No team wants to defend the entire game, and I'm sure Woolwich would have preferred we didn't have so many shots on goal.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Forwards don’t just "click" ffs. Don’t know what sort of copium this is or just ignorance. Football is not some arbitrary sport where good things happen out of the blue.

Our forwards need to create and attack space in order to create good chances, which we fucking don’t right now. Then we can consider if their decision making is truly shit and it’s the players quality that is hurting us.

Furthermore, if our tactics rely on winning 1v1s to create good chances, then it’s fucking shit because we don’t have that type of wingers (frankly we never did).

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Confidence "clicks". When you don't second guess yourself and your teammates, decisions become faster and you start predicting where the ball will go and where other players will be. Once that happens it gives a feeling of "clicking" but you are right in that it doesn't just click. It takes months of work, trying different things and different combinations/dynamics before you find the thing that works best for the humans involved in it. Players unfortunately aren't robots so there isn't a uniform amount of time it can take and for some of our forwards, it might never happen so they will end up leaving and different players coming in.

FWIW from my very amateur analysis, Maddison and Odobert looked like they might "click" really quickly and bizarrely Johnson and Richarlison found some kind of "click" last season. I have no doubts that we will get at least one good combination with Solanke in the team as well.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Interesting to see Ange say in the post match interview that he always wins in the second season.

I feel that it’s intentional move to put the senior players on notice. Basically we’re here to win and you can either be part of it, or theres the door.

If he’s still here at the beginning of next season, I would not be surprised if 3 to 4 senior players are no longer here

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Yeah I liked his doubling down on it. Makes it seem like others are the problem and not him if he cant do it here.

(Obviously he needs to take part of the blame for results, but we all know what other areas of the club need to get their house in order).

 

[Juno]

Quite right. The boos should not be for Ange. That gives Baldy an excuse to rip it all up and start again using his normal “model”.
I’m still really pissed off about the NLD, I’m sure everyone is. But we all know what happens next when the crowd gets restless with the manager, who is only working with what he’s been given.

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The manager that’s working with the £300 million or so that he’s spent on incoming players.

 

[Brian Fantana]

The best way for us to defend corners at the moment is to stop giving them away.
And that means not leaving ourself short at the back and making last ditch blocks and tackles by the goal line.

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It was as clear as day on Sunday and is obviously what Ange meant. People wont want to hear this, but that scum team is one of the best defensive sides with the best set piece attack and defensive strategies I have seen play us in probably the last 20 years. I would go back to prime Stoke under Pulis. Even better than Chelsea under Mourinho first time around.

We could still be playing now and wouldnt score against them unless we hit a worldie.

20 goals from set pieces scored and 7 conceded last season.

Premier League - Team Statistics

Premier League Team Statistics

www.whoscored.com

 

[Richard Arlison]

Yeah I liked his doubling down on it. Makes it seem like others are the problem and not him if he cant do it here.

(Obviously he needs to take part of the blame for results, but we all know what other areas of the club need to get their house in order).

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I'm not even sure that I trust the other areas of the club actually want to win.

I have zero doubts in my mind that Ange 100% wants to win.

There are areas of this club that I fear think winning things creates expensive expectations from the fanbase and our current mode of 4th-8th with full stadiums is perfect for the business model. They might even think the mix of pain and highs and lows mixed in with the controversy of manager changes here and there are just enough to keep the fans entertained and interested without actually winning.

 

[erlee]

I think ange ball is killing the way we play. no one really wants to shoot to score outside the b0x..

Son used to curle in from outside or barn storms 60m 70m to score. Route-1 Football.
Now everyone just wants to pass and play it back backwards for 35 passes to move forward 10 yards,

I wasnt a fan of ange-ball last season & not this season either. never.

 

[Murphy]

I think ange ball is killing the way we play. no one really wants to shoot to score outside the b0x..

Son used to curle in from outside or barn storms 60m 70m to score. Route-1 Football.
Now everyone just wants to pass and play it back backwards for 35 passes to move forward 10 yards,

I wasnt a fan of ange-ball last season & not this season either. never.

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We scored a ridiculous 74 goals last season.

Whilst we were defensively naive, it worked for the attacking element. It's not working this year because whilst dominating the ball we aren't getting into scoring positions.

 

[JimothyCF14]

Probably someone who wins a lot in the lower leagues. Don't want to change it too drastically from Ange.....



We're dominating possession.
We're not dominating games.
We had twice as many chances as Arse on Sunday. but their XG, from half as many chances was the same as ours.
It's an absolutely illusion that we're dominating games. The possession stats and touches in the box stats only tell us half the story. What good is a touch in the box when it's 1 Spurs player, with his back to goal, with 8 opposition defenders easily handling it?
What good is 75% of the ball when most of it is between the halfway line and the edge of the box with the entire opposing team between the goal and the ball?
What's the point in players like Johnson, Odobert, Son and Werner when we play a style of football that absolutely restricts space in the attacking 3rd? Those players need an open pitch to run into. They won't get it when the opposition have 11 men ahead of them and we have 8 or 9 of ours in there too.

Haaland would be less prolific in this system, especially with opposition players all being told drop back into shape, defend narrow, force the play out wide to players who can't cross and wait for the break each match.
The only player I've ever seen that seemed to be able to score with 3, 4, 5 players on him and between him and the goal was prime Messi.

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I'm not saying I miss Conte, but I would have been interested in seeing Conte with Werner and Johnson.

I dont think our forwards are awful like some on here, I just don't think they're good for what we're doing specifically.

 

[McCOYS]

I'm not saying I miss Conte, but I would have been interested in seeing Conte with Werner and Johnson.

I dont think our forwards are awful like some on here, I just don't think they're good for what we're doing specifically.

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Yep, they're more suited to counter attacking, I'd also sometimes like to see long passes out from the back. By the time we short pass it from the back into an attack, the opposition are set in their defensive positions. We don't have good enough players to be like Man City.

 

[PointToPatrik]

I think ange ball is killing the way we play. no one really wants to shoot to score outside the b0x..

Son used to curle in from outside or barn storms 60m 70m to score. Route-1 Football.
Now everyone just wants to pass and play it back backwards for 35 passes to move forward 10 yards,

I wasnt a fan of ange-ball last season & not this season either. never.

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The issue isn't Ange ball in and off itself as much as it is specific elements of it.

In particular the seeming requirement to only score one type of goal. It makes us a bit one dimensional. And similarly with passing in the middle of the pitch. We want to play very specific passes and allow the play to slow down so we can play them.

If Ange just tweaks some elements in his football, but keeps to the core philosophy of it. A lot of the grumbling about it is going to go away.

 

[PointToPatrik]

Yep, they're more suited to counter attacking, I'd also sometimes like to see long passes out from the back. By the time we short pass it from the back into an attack, the opposition are set in their defensive positions. We don't have good enough players to be like Man City.

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People are going to hate this comparison, but Arteta had similar issues early at Woolwich. But he was given time (in parts because of a FA cup, in parts because of Covid) to iron out his style of football and adapt. And now they are reaping the benefits.

Hopefully Ange is given the time to make those adaptations that he needs to make. But after a NLD loss I understand some people losing faith and speaking in affect.

 

[McCOYS]

People are going to hate this comparison, but Arteta had similar issues early at Woolwich. But he was given time (in parts because of a FA cup, in parts because of Covid) to iron out his style of football and adapt. And now they are reaping the benefits.

Hopefully Ange is given the time to make those adaptations that he needs to make. But after a NLD loss I understand some people losing faith and speaking in affect.

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Ange seems to be very set in his ways, I don't see him adapting.

 

[PointToPatrik]

Ange seems to be very set in his ways, I don't see him adapting.

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Or at the very least slow to adapt.

We all remember the talk about set piece issues last season and how he pushed back on that publicly. But Nick Montgomery seems to have been given responsibility to handle set pieces since he came in in the summer, and we have seen improvement on how we defend them.

So if a change happens I do not think that it happens quickly. But we will slowly see it over the course of a season. The question is if it happens quickly enough for the doubters and decision makers.

 

[McCOYS]

Or at the very least slow to adapt.

We all remember the talk about set piece issues last season and how he pushed back on that publicly. But Nick Montgomery seems to have been given responsibility to handle set pieces since he came in in the summer, and we have seen improvement on how we defend them.

So if a change happens I do not think that it happens quickly. But we will slowly see it over the course of a season. The question is if it happens quickly enough for the doubters and decision makers.

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Yeah there's been improvements there, apart from Romero at the weekend, for their goal.

The problem for me is I don't see us mixing up the play with any longer passes out from the back, or at least occasionally keeping the fullbacks wide and overlapping.

What we've done is got a bit better at what we were doing last season defensively, but it's all just so god dam predictable. Teams know what we're going to be doing and they set themselves up for it, something that we never seem to do.

 

[False 9]

"Solanke will score 20+"
"Johnson 15 g/a last year’‘
"Ange wins things year 2"
"Bergvall/Gray generational talents"

Which excuse will our fans use next? #AngeOut