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Tactics TFC's Tactical Autopsy Thread

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dudu said:
Your last point is fair, but it is also fair to say that for most clubs, especially those above and around us, their spending was much, much lower than many previous seasons, largely due to them being much further along in their projects than us.

That isn't to say Ange hasn't had money spent on him, but if your gonna judge him on his money spent it would also be fair to to take time into consideration.
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How far back do you wanna go? Based on the last 5 years I'm pretty sure we're still in the top 4 or 5 for net spend.

Edit: yep 4th since 2019 (furthest right column):

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...and about as big a gap between us and Newcastle in 5th as there is between us and Chelsea at the top.

Wage bill is another matter. Clearly it's been a policy choice of Levy's to shrink the wage bill further while he invests the cash saved in transfer fees, and the merits of that decision remain to be seen. But the idea we're still a club that doesn't invest, or doesn't back the managers in the market, is plainly nonsense.
 
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Klaus said:
Postecoglou says he will have 'strong control' over Spurs transfers despite Johan Lange's arrival - Spurs Web

"Ange Postecoglou says that he has always had the final say on transfers throughout his managerial career and it is no different at Tottenham, revealing that he got most of his first-choice targets in the summer.

The Spurs head coach told Football.London: “Wherever I’ve been, I’ve made sure that I have the biggest say over recruitment. I don’t do all the work but I really think it’s an important part of my function and particularly when I first go into clubs.

“When you first go into a club, there are two measures that people will always put up against you. One is the results, which tells its own tale, but as a manager, and I’ve certainly had that experience, you can’t always guarantee the results early on because you’re trying to build something and there’s going to be some ups and downs.

“The other thing you get measured on is the people you bring in. Not necessarily the ones you inherited, because people will say they weren’t his choices if they’re not working out.

“Everywhere I’ve been, the players I’ve recruited whether it was here, Celtic, Yokohama or my jobs in Australia, those first few players I’ve always put a lot of stock in that they have to be players who come in and have an impact straight away, because at least if the results aren’t there, then people will say OK, there’s something building here."
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Wow, thanks! Wasn't expecting that level of control. Goes against recent history...and it changes how I will evaluate matters. I figured some players were foisted on him...
 
Klaus said:
How far back do you wanna go? Based on the last 5 years I'm pretty sure we're still in the top 4 or 5 for net spend.

Edit: yep 4th since 2019 (furthest right column):

shfKqbC.png


...and about as big a gap between us and Newcastle in 5th as there is between us and Chelsea at the top.

Wage bill is another matter. Clearly it's been a policy choice of Levy's to shrink the wage bill further while he invests the cash saved in transfer fees, and the merits of that decision remain to be seen. But the idea we're still a club that doesn't invest, or doesn't back the managers in the market, is plainly nonsense.
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Again, I agree.

I think we have backed the manager and have spent plenty, despite whatever stick folks want to try and beat the owners with. We haven't spent it well at times but I do think we have been doing it better recently and bar a few positions, and a bit of real experience and leadership, I feel we have a pretty good squad to show for it right now.

I'm simply talking about comparing what Ange has spent and done over 3 windows and comparing like for like with what other managers have spent and the position they were at after the same period.

He has been backed, but most managers that stay for 4 plus years take over a season to produce the kind of form results wise we all want to see.
 
Klaus said:
How far back do you wanna go? Based on the last 5 years I'm pretty sure we're still in the top 4 or 5 for net spend.

Edit: yep 4th since 2019 (furthest right column):

shfKqbC.png


...and about as big a gap between us and Newcastle in 5th as there is between us and Chelsea at the top.

Wage bill is another matter. Clearly it's been a policy choice of Levy's to shrink the wage bill further while he invests the cash saved in transfer fees, and the merits of that decision remain to be seen. But the idea we're still a club that doesn't invest, or doesn't back the managers in the market, is plainly nonsense.
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my god that is horrific reading for united.-806 they dont have much value in the squad from the money theyve spent either, truly horrific recruitment over the years.
 
Klaus said:
Hold on hold on, I'm not really interested in the rest of your argument but what??? You can't seriously be arguing this?

1) Poch spent 5 years at Spurs competing at the VERY TOP despite spending less than half the clubs in the Championship over that period. It was one of the greatest achievements in Prem history.

2) Chelsea is a poisoned chalice. Potter is a serious manager with a serious track record and had them in the bottom half. There are way too caveats at that club to properly judge any manager there since the Boehly experiment.

3) Despite that, Poch still had them finish 6th and were roaring up the table by the end.

4) And based on xPoints, which you Ange-in lot love to yap on about, Chelsea "deserved" to finish ahead of us by around 8 points. But I'm guessing the underlying stats don't matter now it doesn't suit the narrative.

5) If you're gonna start arguing that somehow Ange hasn't had a lot to spend you're really arguing yourself into a corner. He's spent the 2nd most in the league since on a net transfer spend basis since he joined Spurs and has openly said he is the most important and final say in all transfer decisions. If you've got a problem with our transfer decisions, fine, but that lies at the feet of Ange first and foremost. Complaining that Ange hasn't been given the players he wants or hasn't had piles of money spent on him is just delusional.
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Mate Poch got us to finials, semi finals , the the euro cup final and choked, he now managing Murica ffs. They don’t even call it football.
 
Klaus said:
To be honest I think it's right that managers have the final say - there's no point buying someone the manager won't play. But what's important is the recruitment/data team and DOF are heavily involved, and draw up a suitable list of candidates for the manager based on a style of play and profile agreed in advance between all parties. No manager has the requisite bandwidth to both manage the team and be aware of all the potential players across the world that could improve the squad.

What I don't like is the argument that Ange "hasn't been backed with his preferred players" when it's quite clear from what Ange has said and everything come out of the club that he has. It's just a way of excusing Ange from any blame for our current predicament.
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Managers cannot have the final say ffs, ur saying a manager should whole responsibility for millions of pounds? Clueless.
 
Klaus said:
Postecoglou says he will have 'strong control' over Spurs transfers despite Johan Lange's arrival - Spurs Web

"Ange Postecoglou says that he has always had the final say on transfers throughout his managerial career and it is no different at Tottenham, revealing that he got most of his first-choice targets in the summer.

The Spurs head coach told Football.London: “Wherever I’ve been, I’ve made sure that I have the biggest say over recruitment. I don’t do all the work but I really think it’s an important part of my function and particularly when I first go into clubs.

“When you first go into a club, there are two measures that people will always put up against you. One is the results, which tells its own tale, but as a manager, and I’ve certainly had that experience, you can’t always guarantee the results early on because you’re trying to build something and there’s going to be some ups and downs.

“The other thing you get measured on is the people you bring in. Not necessarily the ones you inherited, because people will say they weren’t his choices if they’re not working out.

“Everywhere I’ve been, the players I’ve recruited whether it was here, Celtic, Yokohama or my jobs in Australia, those first few players I’ve always put a lot of stock in that they have to be players who come in and have an impact straight away, because at least if the results aren’t there, then people will say OK, there’s something building here."
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If Ange had a major say in signing Werner, then you guys are fucked.
 
Klaus said:
How far back do you wanna go? Based on the last 5 years I'm pretty sure we're still in the top 4 or 5 for net spend.

Edit: yep 4th since 2019 (furthest right column):

shfKqbC.png


...and about as big a gap between us and Newcastle in 5th as there is between us and Chelsea at the top.

Wage bill is another matter. Clearly it's been a policy choice of Levy's to shrink the wage bill further while he invests the cash saved in transfer fees, and the merits of that decision remain to be seen. But the idea we're still a club that doesn't invest, or doesn't back the managers in the market, is plainly nonsense.
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Do you have something like this starting from when Ange joined Tottenham?
 
bus-conductor said:

View: https://x.com/snarklife/status/1844883021712830827?s=46&t=IomICbZIqZC4FsH907qgfw
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Know it's not relevant to the article but I think it's pretty clear we have tried to emulate their strategy in the transfer market these past couple of years, or at least move closer in their direction (young, data-led buys we send out to develop on loan: Bergvall, Udogie, Sarr, Min-Hyuk, Vuskovic).

Obviously it's not the exact same strategy - we don't have Benham's gambling data, our budget is much larger, and we're not looking to sell these players for profit. But the shift has been clear.
 
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