Who do you hold responsible for that. The man in the moon?
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
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I said around there, yeah I think we will finish 5th or 6th- feel free to bookmark.
There's a man I hold responsible for it but I also hold people like you responsible for accepting it.
In attack, yes. We have the most goals scored in the league as of right now. We’re a train wreck defensively even if the goals conceded don’t show it.
My point is what is an interim manager going to get out of these players? I have a lot more faith in Ange than I do Ryan Mason. As the original post you quoted states, I’m all for reassessing come the end of the season. But I don’t believe there is anyone out there that’s available to come in and improve us immediately. Those guys are all working at other clubs.
It's bizarre to not count the start arbitrarily, but include a huge number of games where both Romero and VdV were injured (meaning we had to play Emerson Royal at CB).
Whats that got to do with what I've said. Nice moving the goal posts, when you are done I've some stuff in the garage to shift. Seriously I said these are his players, you post a list of losses for six years. You okay bud?
We won't be 5th as you claim on the form of the last 41 games. Wtf ! Seriously what's happened to people, I will indeed bookmark it.
Problem for me is at the moment, the only reason I’m keeping Ange here is because I just don’t know who you replace him with. I’m not keeping him because I believe in him or think he’ll achieve anything - I’m solely keeping him because I can’t see where the quality replacement is. (If it matters, I wanted Amorim when we got Ange, and of course the jury is out there too).
For me, it’s not JUST Ange, but he’s a massive part of it. I think we’re a shambles top to bottom to be honest. The way I see it, we’re slowly buying ourselves back into mid table mediocrity.
The biggest blame is at the top, of course it is. This board aren’t bothered by footballing success. They’re first and foremost an entertainment enterprise, they want the cash from concerts and events and the stadium, and they love the idea of the windfall qualifying for Europe brings, but if we never won another thing, as long as the balance books were looking good, they wouldn’t care less. The only time they really look to change things and push on is if we sink low enough that the windfall is heavily dented and even then it’s doing just enough to get us back to fighting for Europe. They missed a golden opportunity to capitalise on Poch and we’ve been in reverse ever since.
The biggest problem is we’re now actively paying for mediocrity. We don’t spend big on ready made players, so we’ve got a squad which isn’t great. Having to play Johnson and Werner sums it up for me, I don’t think a single other top six club would take either of them and they often start for us. It’s probably similar for most of the squad, who genuinely gets in the other top 6 teams? Son? Solanke? Kulu? Romero? VDV? You could probably argue all of them either way.
Manager wise, sorry, I’m not seeing it. I’d genuinely love to be proved wrong. I’d love him to suddenly find a moment where it all clicks and we take off. I just don’t see it though. I honestly (and of course it’s just my personal view) think we’ve got a manager who in the premier league is on average a 8th - 11th manager. I think the 5th last season was helped massively by the new manager bounce, and the frailties of other teams performing far below their usual quality. I think if you gave Ange five years, he will level out somewhere between 8th and 11th. He doesn’t have the nous, quality or experience at a top level to consistently have us challenging and winning things. There is a reason he’s got to the age he is, and we’re the first to take a punt on him. Should also note, he was clearly our 3rd or 4th choice, so even we weren’t convinced.
I think “Angeball” is somewhat of a myth as well. People talk as if we’re free flowing and a constant threat, but we have just as many games where we could play all weekend and not score. People love to talk about how XG wise we’re 3rd or defensively we’re 3rd best statistically, but it doesn’t pass the eye test for me. All the stats show we’re the 2nd or 3rd best at various things but we’re not third in the table and there are more than three teams who are clearly better than us. Stats don’t tell the whole story.
I think he gets rattled, and he gets grouchy in interviews because I genuinely don’t think he can understand that something that worked in Scotland, Japan and Australia doesn’t work in the Premier league. As much as we can go and get a result against City (and make no mistake, whatever state City are in, that WAS a fantastic performance and result) the key is, those performances are the outliers as far as I’m concerned. We can win the odd big game, but I don’t feel like we’re heading toward something where that’s every week. I think these Fulham, Ipswich, Palace performances are us, we’re just capable of turning up against a big side on the odd occasion we fancy it. This is why so many people reacted to City by saying “let’s see what happens against Fulham though” it’s not because “they’re all gooners and not true fans” it’s because you can see the nature of our performances and that’s on the players AND Ange.
Main problem is even if we changed to fantastic owners tomorrow, the best owners we could wish for, I still don’t think Ange is a top level manager. I think you could let him have all of the players he wants and he would still be found lacking, I just don’t think he’s that good at THIS level. Also fair to say, he’s spent a fair bit, but our whole club is lacking direction, and we’ve got the cheap option in every single role, players, coaches AND manager. Our board aren’t it, but Ange isn’t HIM.
TLDR; We’re a shambles and the problem is club wide, with shares for players, manager AND owners.
For me, it’s not JUST Ange, but he’s a massive part of it. I think we’re a shambles top to bottom to be honest. The way I see it, we’re slowly buying ourselves back into mid table mediocrity.
The biggest blame is at the top, of course it is. This board aren’t bothered by footballing success. They’re first and foremost an entertainment enterprise, they want the cash from concerts and events and the stadium, and they love the idea of the windfall qualifying for Europe brings, but if we never won another thing, as long as the balance books were looking good, they wouldn’t care less. The only time they really look to change things and push on is if we sink low enough that the windfall is heavily dented and even then it’s doing just enough to get us back to fighting for Europe. They missed a golden opportunity to capitalise on Poch and we’ve been in reverse ever since.
The biggest problem is we’re now actively paying for mediocrity. We don’t spend big on ready made players, so we’ve got a squad which isn’t great. Having to play Johnson and Werner sums it up for me, I don’t think a single other top six club would take either of them and they often start for us. It’s probably similar for most of the squad, who genuinely gets in the other top 6 teams? Son? Solanke? Kulu? Romero? VDV? You could probably argue all of them either way.
Manager wise, sorry, I’m not seeing it. I’d genuinely love to be proved wrong. I’d love him to suddenly find a moment where it all clicks and we take off. I just don’t see it though. I honestly (and of course it’s just my personal view) think we’ve got a manager who in the premier league is on average a 8th - 11th manager. I think the 5th last season was helped massively by the new manager bounce, and the frailties of other teams performing far below their usual quality. I think if you gave Ange five years, he will level out somewhere between 8th and 11th. He doesn’t have the nous, quality or experience at a top level to consistently have us challenging and winning things. There is a reason he’s got to the age he is, and we’re the first to take a punt on him. Should also note, he was clearly our 3rd or 4th choice, so even we weren’t convinced.
I think “Angeball” is somewhat of a myth as well. People talk as if we’re free flowing and a constant threat, but we have just as many games where we could play all weekend and not score. People love to talk about how XG wise we’re 3rd or defensively we’re 3rd best statistically, but it doesn’t pass the eye test for me. All the stats show we’re the 2nd or 3rd best at various things but we’re not third in the table and there are more than three teams who are clearly better than us. Stats don’t tell the whole story.
I think he gets rattled, and he gets grouchy in interviews because I genuinely don’t think he can understand that something that worked in Scotland, Japan and Australia doesn’t work in the Premier league. As much as we can go and get a result against City (and make no mistake, whatever state City are in, that WAS a fantastic performance and result) the key is, those performances are the outliers as far as I’m concerned. We can win the odd big game, but I don’t feel like we’re heading toward something where that’s every week. I think these Fulham, Ipswich, Palace performances are us, we’re just capable of turning up against a big side on the odd occasion we fancy it. This is why so many people reacted to City by saying “let’s see what happens against Fulham though” it’s not because “they’re all gooners and not true fans” it’s because you can see the nature of our performances and that’s on the players AND Ange.
Main problem is even if we changed to fantastic owners tomorrow, the best owners we could wish for, I still don’t think Ange is a top level manager. I think you could let him have all of the players he wants and he would still be found lacking, I just don’t think he’s that good at THIS level. Also fair to say, he’s spent a fair bit, but our whole club is lacking direction, and we’ve got the cheap option in every single role, players, coaches AND manager. Our board aren’t it, but Ange isn’t HIM.
TLDR; We’re a shambles and the problem is club wide, with shares for players, manager AND owners.
But truthfully, does this speak more for Anges quality, or does it speak for the lack of available decent options?
Probably both tbh.
This manager isn't flawless far from it but he has the right mentality to succeed and work with the board.
And people go on about his bad this board is all the time, does anyone actually expect a manager to see it differently than us and think they can work in this football club with the same board?
You quoted an entire post where I also said:
But if you want to claim it’s Ange’s Spurs, then let’s talk about that too.
Of our starting XI when healthy, Porro, Udogie, Bissouma, Son, Kulusevski and Romero were all not bought by Ange. Over half his starting XI are previous manager buys.
He is counting the start stop hiding behind Emerson. Injuries are part of the game infact they are an intrinsic part of ludicrous Angeball. Take all the games we have played average out the ppg we ain't getting 5th because those first ten games have never been near replicated. Your going to have to accept they are the statistical outlier. People will be talking about them ten games long after he's fired, I can see this now. The reality is we haven't won three games on the spin since.
Nagelsmann
The players you name are the BEST we have lol. They're the ones worth keeping. He's talked in fulsome terms about all these players and has no intention of replacing them. Don't forget Sarr. This is Anges team hiding behind transfer windows is classic misguided fan talk. The evidence is right in front of you in coaching or lack of. The game management the subs. The team is actually BETTER than the results .
No, for that particular stat he didn't count the start, but did count the period where we had Romero and VdV out injured.
Of course. But there's no rule that says we should have Emerson Royal as our back-up CB.
This is the key point... in every window we don't invest to enough of an extent. No back up CBs last summer is just one example.
Our problem this season has been wing play... were Odobert and Werner good enough? Which manager would work their magic with this pair?
Please be realistic
Stop shitting on Emerson he wasn't on the pitch when we conceded three to Brighton that was the vaunted first choice centerbacks you keep bigging up. This isn't about investment it was management did for us at the Amex you need to wake up.
It's fucking delusional. It's like the moonies.Hope he’s right
