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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Hard for me to believe there’s no possibility Ange is sacked before the end of the season. If we lose to Rangers, lose to Southampton, and lose to United, then being out of contention for anything - you don’t think the sack would come? And that’s only three matches.
 
Richard Arlison said:
I didn’t see the game so no clue what Kulus was but I’ve seen the clip of this tackle.

You have to force the ref to make a decision before VAR gets involved. Start a full on fight over that tackle like it’s a real derby. Caicedo gets the red it deserves and VAR won’t overturn it
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The players no longer understand the meaning derby anymore. IMHO, even against the scum, they are just pretending they care only because of the media hype. And that's really a big issue for us, because in addition to this club already being starved of winning in becoming a tradition, we are now having players who really aren't trying that hard.

I just miss the days of having characters from players like Mido, Tainio, Davids, Lamela, VdV etc. Even players like Zokora, Holtby played with more pride.
 
Two Left Feet said:
It does seem a bit off to sack a manager when we are still in three cups. Especially when there is no strong replacement lined up.
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Nuno was sacked when we were still in three cups.

His football was turgid but he actually lost less games than Ange has seen us lose this season.

We will just carry on playing headless chicken football at 100mph and keep losing games then, yeah?

Lose against Rangers and that’s almost certainly a play off needed in EL. Lose against United and that’s the CC done.

The league was never on of course but we should be higher than 11th.
 
Maureen of course, but that wasn't relevant to my point. See my response to another poster who made the same point as you
BJK said:
I know that the comparison was far from perfect, as I acknowledged in my initial post.I made couple of empirically unverifiable assumptions, all flattering Ange and overstating the case that can be made for him. I'm aware that it's a futile thought experiment as Ange will probably never manage a club close to that level. The point I was making was at the very end. Maybe you missed it. The post was far from a praise for Ange, or the job he has been doing here.

But as a more general point, a distinction can be made between managers as floor raisers and ceiling raisers. Floor raisers are the ones who excel at uplifting teams from the ground. They create compact, hard-nosed, neat and tidy teams where the whole is bigger than the sum of its parts. They're not necessarily park the bus merchants who get a joy out of making the game as hideous as possible. They can play an appealing brand of football under specific circumstances. But their goal is to make the most out of their limited resources. Guys like Nuno and Moyes made a career out of this. It's certainly a skill.

Ceiling raisers, by contrast, tend to excel at situations where they have an abundance of resources at their disposal. They have no problem building up attacking, free-flowing, dominant teams that comfortably overpower their opposition. They make serial winners. This is a skill as well. Not everybody is up to it. Some fail miserably when trying to take that step upwards.

Now, these two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Ancelotti was a floor raiser managing Everton. Year later, he went back to being a ceiling raiser with Madrid. Some managers make that transition quite smoothly. Some, like Nuno and Moyes I mentioned above, can't make it. They had to go back to where they're most comfortable at.

Coming to Ange, I see him close to a ceiling raiser. That's what he did with Celtic. That's what he may be capable of doing with top teams. We may never know. My point is that, even if Ange turns out to be a ceiling raiser, it's irrelevant for us. The way this club operates necessitates a floor raiser. In other words, what Pochettino did in his tenure. It doesn't have to be him, but it has to be someone cast in the same mold.

Being a good floor raiser is not a prerequisite for being a good ceiling raiser. A good ceiling raiser is not guaranteed to be a good floor raiser just because he did well at a 'higher' level. These are two different situations. With different expectations, requirements and circumstances. They're not directly comparable. How well or poorly a manager performs in one of those roles is not indicative of how he will do in the other.
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To sum up, I made a broad but IMO useful distinction betwen managers as floor raisers vs ceiling raisers. A distinction that may not apply to ALL managers but applies to at least some. Then, based on that, I argued that Ange, just like Kompany, is closer to being a ceiling raiser than he is to being a floor raiser. Finally, based on that, I made my main point that even if Ange is closer to being a ceiling raiser than a floor raiser, this fact is of no use to us. We need a floor raiser under the current ownership-board. Ange is not that. So EVEN IF he's a good ceiling raiser, keeping him here and hoping that he'll magically turn into a good floor raiser is a waste of time.

Age difference between Ange and Kompany would obviously be relevant in a comparison between them. But, in the context I was making the comparison, it wasn't very relevant. I was basically saying that even a 40 yr old Ange wouldn't be any good for us. Not because he's a good-for-nothing, but because of the difference I elaborated on between floor and ceiling raisers. And how we need the former, not the latter.
 
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Maureen said:
That is true and keep saying it’s not like we are bombing forward on the attack with the ball. We had less of the ball any and most of the time our players are back. Look at the enzo goal how many players did we have back. Just that they are lazy and don’t pick up players or smell danger.
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I think we just don't practice enough defending area around and in the box. We seem to have some patterns in terms of pressing, retrieving ball high up on the pitch, and then execute counter. But the moment opponent pins us to our penalty box, to me many of our players seems clueless and without any shape. We don't know how to prevent crosses, how to defend the ball when the cross is made. We just want to retrieve ball as fast as possible and then we have stories like for Enzo goal. Same about defending set pieces. Maybe we haven't conceded many goals so far this season, but we had luck many times. That's on coach IMO
 
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Incomplete_usernam said:
If we get knocked out of the cup by United, I think that’ll be the tipping point for his dismissal—a shame, really, as it’ll be yet another missed chance at silverware. The only other scenario I see accelerating his departure is if the players completely down tools and we suffer heavy defeats in the next few games, though that seems unlikely for now.

As for the club’s public assurances about his job being safe—I wouldn’t read too much into those. They’re more about optics than actual intent imo.
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I think he'll be here at Christmas, but not come the end of the season.
 
Richard Arlison said:
What happens if he survives and wins a cup? or Europa?

And forget how likely that is because our record in the last quarter decade suggest the chances of silverware are incredibly slim no matter who the manager is.
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He’d be our most successful manager in recent times, which is disgusting in itself.

Let’s be honest though, he couldn’t hope for two better fixtures. Got to win both. Anything else isn’t good enough.
 
John Thomas said:
Ange ain't going anywhere guys. Certainly not imminently. Wether that upsets you or cheers you is irrelevant.
You'd all do far better in joining the chorus of unrest, now Spurred on by the legend that is Christian Romero, and direct your anger and frustration at where the real problem lies..

Levy OUT!
ENIC OUT!
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Ignore the odds as they're for the next manager. Doesn't mean he won't go soon.
If we struggle Thursday and Sunday, he's gone. No doubt.

This can't go on and if there are noises in the crowds again then Levy will act. We have a quarter of a century of evidence of it.
 
The issue for me when people talk about rebuilds and compare to Arteta and Klopp is that, their system and tactics were never as diabolical as Ange's is.

In fact Klopp looked the real deal from the very start, and Arteta always prioritised defensive solidity and balance in his approach.

Ange's tactical system is completely clueless, so anyone who thinks just giving him time and new players will lead to success is honestly deluded.

And I question just what the club thinks they are doing by persevering with this approach? Do they honestly think Ange is the man who has worked out the PL by just going all out attack? We've already seen in the past 18 months it doesn't work and will never work.

So Ange is a dead man walking, it will never work, his approach is fundamentally flawed and naïve and he is too stubborn to change.

More worrying for me is not Ange, I already know he's failed. My issue is if the club haven't worked this out yet and still think he's the man to take us to glory. Because if they do, it means they are fucking inept and we have a bunch of clowns running the club including Lange and Munn.

That is more concerning for me, because Ange will be gone soon, but we will be stuck with these football operators who clearly have no idea what they are doing.

I can't believe anybody in a professional caapcity at Spurs can have watched us under Ange over the last 40 games and think his approach will work.

I pray that they have already made up their mind but are just leaving him in place whilst they either get through this busy period or line up a replacement.
 
Hampshire Spur said:
Ange is reminding me of ardiles era as manager. Great going forward but useless at thr back. As for romero been part of the problem and cost us points start of season with lapses.
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Once again, I'd really love to witness some of this great attacking play that others keep noting.

Where was it against Palace, Ipswich, Bournemouth?

If it were really all that then at 2-0 against Brighton/Chelsea then we would surely have been able to pile on more goals whilst they were attempting to mount their comebacks?

Our offensive play has been effective on a handful of occasions, null and void on just as many if not more. It's predictable, too easily nullified, and not nearly consistent enough.

You could say we aren't incompetent going forward, but great? Not anywhere near.
 
Sacking him while we're in 3 cups makes more sense than not sacking him. Results are getting worse and worse with more frequency.
We won't win any of them with him here.
 
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