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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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some of the Ange out crew are really letting their emotions cloud reality.

Example

Klopp had Liverpool looking the real deal from day 1

Truth

Liverpool were shipping goals at an alarming rate when Klopp started. It was only after they shipped out a fortune on Virgil and Allison that changed.

I can agree that the results have been poor. I can agree that there are aspects of the performances, especially defensively that need righting.

What I don’t agree with is that there hasn’t been change in methods. There has been an improvement in defending set pieces and I believe that the full backs are no longer both moving central/forward as often. If Son was firing at all we would be sitting top four. He has been a shadow of his former self which I hope is temporary but fear is not.

I also believe the adjustments need to continue to be tweaked. I do not think we have the group to do exactly what Ange wants to do. To be the team he wants to be but there are definite signs that it’s getting closer. We have beaten City twice this year, hammered West Ham, AV and United then shit the bed against Ipswich, BHA and Bournemouth. That’s just of the top of my head.

Chelsea particularly was a result of individual mistakes. Those claiming that Ange causes this by asking them to play “at 100 miles per hour” is preposterous. The Chelsea match was the same as it always is. Battle of the bridge comes to mind and makes Sunday seem tame. When did a team last win a game while conceding two penalties and had a red card for the opposition blatantly missed?

I’m not Ange in or out at this moment because the results and performances have been so dramatically varied. IF the results continue to trend in the wrong direction my view will change but I see enough progress to have hope that we can get there. it’s taking time, more than many, myself included want it to but I am still on the fence and willing to let it play a bit longer.

Nuno has Forest above us, do we want him?
Howe has Newcastle behind us so we want him? Silva failed miserably at Everton. De Zerbi was the flavour of the month not so long ago we almost had Van Gaal and ETH and look how those turned out. There is nothing and nobody that guarantees anything so let’s see if the brilliant days start to outnumber the depressing days over the busy coming weeks and make a decision then.

It will not be the difference between relegation or winning the league because neither will happen.
 
$pursWin said:
some of the Ange out crew are really letting their emotions cloud reality.

Example

Klopp had Liverpool looking the real deal from day 1

Truth

Liverpool were shipping goals at an alarming rate when Klopp started. It was only after they shipped out a fortune on Virgil and Allison that changed.

I can agree that the results have been poor. I can agree that there are aspects of the performances, especially defensively that need righting.

What I don’t agree with is that there hasn’t been change in methods. There has been an improvement in defending set pieces and I believe that the full backs are no longer both moving central/forward as often. If Son was firing at all we would be sitting top four. He has been a shadow of his former self which I hope is temporary but fear is not.

I also believe the adjustments need to continue to be tweaked. I do not think we have the group to do exactly what Ange wants to do. To be the team he wants to be but there are definite signs that it’s getting closer. We have beaten City twice this year, hammered West Ham, AV and United then shit the bed against Ipswich, BHA and Bournemouth. That’s just of the top of my head.

Chelsea particularly was a result of individual mistakes. Those claiming that Ange causes this by asking them to play “at 100 miles per hour” is preposterous. The Chelsea match was the same as it always is. Battle of the bridge comes to mind and makes Sunday seem tame. When did a team last win a game while conceding two penalties and had a red card for the opposition blatantly missed?

I’m not Ange in or out at this moment because the results and performances have been so dramatically varied. IF the results continue to trend in the wrong direction my view will change but I see enough progress to have hope that we can get there. it’s taking time, more than many, myself included want it to but I am still on the fence and willing to let it play a bit longer.

Nuno has Forest above us, do we want him?
Howe has Newcastle behind us so we want him? Silva failed miserably at Everton. De Zerbi was the flavour of the month not so long ago we almost had Van Gaal and ETH and look how those turned out. There is nothing and nobody that guarantees anything so let’s see if the brilliant days start to outnumber the depressing days over the busy coming weeks and make a decision then.

It will not be the difference between relegation or winning the league because neither will happen.
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Good and fair post but I don’t think Chelsea came down to them getting a couple of pens. They really outplayed us, it was quite ominous at times the way they cut through us, overloaded and we seemed reliant on winning the ball upfield. That said they have a squad of the best young players in the world - not just a decent 7 or 8.
The next few games are key. Losses at ibrox and Southampton will be difficult for him to walk away from.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
I'm trying to stay positive and hoping that when all our players are fit and well, we can get going and things will be OK.
But the longer the season goes on, I fear that I'm clutching at straws and Ange or his team are not the answer.
I thought it was a bit strange that he came to us without any backing staff, never known such a thing.
Not that I know much about tactics, but even I can see that the players seem to be incapable of playing Ange's system successfully. I'm also concerned that he doesn't seem to actually run the training sessions, but leaves it to the coaches. Either they're incompetent or they can see what is wrong, but Ange won't listen to them. Who knows?
I don't know if a new guy would make much difference, hasn't worked in the past (apart from Poch).
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I remember feeling that way last January, everything seemed lined up, new signings, players coming back, decent fixtures on paper...

I don't think there's any perfect storm of circumstances that's going to counteract the fact that Ange's whole philosophy is chaosball and hope for the best. I'm pretty much convinced that you could have nobody in charge of this squad and the results would be more or less the same, he's providing nothing of value at all imo.

A new guy has worked plenty of times in the past, maybe not in terms of winning things, but in terms of improving the present situation with the same group of players - Jol, Redknapp, Poch, Conte, even Tim bloody Sherwood.
 
Kaz Hirai said:
We have beaten and outplayed Premier teams are are better than us so please get your hopes high on the Europa
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Our wins this season
Everton- shite
Brentford- lose every away game
Man United - play badly to get ETH sacked and down to 10 at 1-0
West Ham - shite
Villa - went 2 month's without a win
City - 1 win in last 9 - garbage

Which of those wins should we be proud of?
Everyone we play who is in half decent form at the time beats us.
And Ipswich and Palace who were not even in form.

It's like people are flat out lying to themselves to make it up
 
$pursWin said:
Nuno has Forest above us, do we want him?
Howe has Newcastle behind us so we want him? Silva failed miserably at Everton. De Zerbi was the flavour of the month not so long ago we almost had Van Gaal and ETH and look how those turned out. There is nothing and nobody that guarantees anything so let’s see if the brilliant days start to outnumber the depressing days over the busy coming weeks and make a decision then.

It will not be the difference between relegation or winning the league because neither will happen.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I actually understand some of the arguments put forward by those who want Ange out.

I strongly suspect that experienced Prem managers, like Eddie Howe and Marco Silva, would be able to get a more consistent level of performance and results from the group of players Spurs currently have at their disposal.

Ange chases 3 points from every game. When it works it is a joy to behold. When it is stifled and fails it stinks the place out.

The problem at the moment is that people are losing faith in the tactics and understandably so.

What you have to ask yourself is how likely is it that Spurs can go on an unbeaten run?

Spurs under Ange can win and lose a game in 15 minutes. Brighton away and Chelsea at home.

They can be good and bad in the same game or good or bad from game to game.

The confidence is draining from the supporters so faith in the system is also dwindling.

Ange needs an unbeaten run to get through this.

Without consistency his position will become untenable before the end of the season.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
I'm trying to stay positive and hoping that when all our players are fit and well, we can get going and things will be OK.
But the longer the season goes on, I fear that I'm clutching at straws and Ange or his team are not the answer.
I thought it was a bit strange that he came to us without any backing staff, never known such a thing.
Not that I know much about tactics, but even I can see that the players seem to be incapable of playing Ange's system successfully. I'm also concerned that he doesn't seem to actually run the training sessions, but leaves it to the coaches. Either they're incompetent or they can see what is wrong, but Ange won't listen to them. Who knows?
I don't know if a new guy would make much difference, hasn't worked in the past (apart from Poch).
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Good post

Always concerned me that he doesn't spend much time on the training ground etc. cf. Ferguson and Pep, to name two. I'd far rather have a Conte/Pep maniac on the training ground. Detail. Detail.

And agree re no staff.
 
El flaco said:
Good and fair post but I don’t think Chelsea came down to them getting a couple of pens. They really outplayed us, it was quite ominous at times the way they cut through us, overloaded and we seemed reliant on winning the ball upfield. That said they have a squad of the best young players in the world - not just a decent 7 or 8.
The next few games are key. Losses at ibrox and Southampton will be difficult for him to walk away from.
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I agree we were outplayed, especially in the 2nd half but goals scored and conceded dictate results. No penalties takes 2 goals away. We will never know whether they would have scored if those were not given. If and what’s and so on.
 
$pursWin said:
Chelsea particularly was a result of individual mistakes. Those claiming that Ange causes this by asking them to play “at 100 miles per hour” is preposterous. The Chelsea match was the same as it always is. Battle of the bridge comes to mind and makes Sunday seem tame. When did a team last win a game while conceding two penalties and had a red card for the opposition blatantly missed?
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I'm Ange sceptical - I don't want him out just yet, but reckon he fails for various reasons I won't repeat.

I disagree that the Chelsea loss was down to individual mistakes, at least in one sense - I had a great view of the match from North upper, we were carved open so many times on the transition I lost count, and that is on the tactics used. It was almost inevitable something was going to give from about 30-80 mins given how many times Chelsea nicked the ball, offloaded, and then hemmed us in around our own area. It ended up being penalties but on another day might have been a wonder goal or two, our in-game management was shocking.

That said they ARE a very good team with good players, Palmer on his day will give anyone a problem. So I agree we need to see what happens at Ibrox/St Mary's. Bad results there and its curtains I reckon. Gut feeling is we get the results but Ange doesn't survive 'til end of the season.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
I'm trying to stay positive and hoping that when all our players are fit and well, we can get going and things will be OK.
But the longer the season goes on, I fear that I'm clutching at straws and Ange or his team are not the answer.
I thought it was a bit strange that he came to us without any backing staff, never known such a thing.
Not that I know much about tactics, but even I can see that the players seem to be incapable of playing Ange's system successfully. I'm also concerned that he doesn't seem to actually run the training sessions, but leaves it to the coaches. Either they're incompetent or they can see what is wrong, but Ange won't listen to them. Who knows?
I don't know if a new guy would make much difference, hasn't worked in the past (apart from Poch).
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Apparently he wanted john kennedy and gavin strachan to come but both either chose to stay or celtic werent interested in letting them go.

As for training sessions im not sure if there is anything wrong with just observing and getting his coaches to coach and giving his feed back to what hes seeing.
 
Kosher Kid said:
I actually understand some of the arguments put forward by those who want Ange out.

I strongly suspect that experienced Prem managers, like Eddie Howe and Marco Silva, would be able to get a more consistent level of performance and results from the group of players Spurs currently have at their disposal.

Ange chases 3 points from every game. When it works it is a joy to behold. When it is stifled and fails it stinks the place out.

The problem at the moment is that people are losing faith in the tactics and understandably so.

What you have to ask yourself is how likely is it that Spurs can go on an unbeaten run?

Spurs under Ange can win and lose a game in 15 minutes. Brighton away and Chelsea at home.

They can be good and bad in the same game or good or bad from game to game.

The confidence is draining from the supporters so faith in the system is also dwindling.

Ange needs an unbeaten run to get through this.

Without consistency his position will become untenable before the end of the season.
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Absolutely agree. Ask my wife where my mood is after games like Sunday. I understand most of the concerns and even agree with them. Just not yet at the point where I am Ange out

It may change tomorrow night
 
$pursWin said:
I agree we were outplayed, especially in the 2nd half but goals scored and conceded dictate results. No penalties takes 2 goals away. We will never know whether they would have scored if those were not given. If and what’s and so on.
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Don't forget the certain red card which should have been awarded by var, if the ref missed it, just as Romero's identical tackle was punished in the same fixture last season.

Spurs win the game if Chelsea are reduced to 10 at that stage of the game.
 
glacierSpurs said:
The players no longer understand the meaning derby anymore. IMHO, even against the scum, they are just pretending they care only because of the media hype. And that's really a big issue for us, because in addition to this club already being starved of winning in becoming a tradition, we are now having players who really aren't trying that hard.

I just miss the days of having characters from players like Mido, Tainio, Davids, Lamela, VdV etc. Even players like Zokora, Holtby played with more pride.
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They really don’t but also I really don’t think Ange wants them to approach the games differently from a psychological pov.

Fergie also used to get UTD to treat all games the same, I just don’t think that always worked with his players because they were all dirty bastards.

Tbh I think Son as a captain was a mistake like Kane as a captain was. Both of them far too nice. Our squad doesn’t have enough characters with that malice in them. And those that do have it, aren’t the dominant voices right now
 
8andA1/2Peppers said:
The whole blaming of individual mistakes is a cop out. Yes, there were a couple yesterday that were unforgiveable (namely the penalties). But everytime we concede you have people saying "The manager can't do anything about mistakes".

Mistakes don't exist in a vacuum. If the midfield ahead of you is constantly getting emptied and the opposition are transitioning with 4v3's, or 3v2's more times in one game than happens to a stable team in one month, I'm not sure it's possible to be as composed as a defender as maybe you otherwise could be.
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The fact i called it being penalties that will cost us even at 2-1 means it's predictable.
We've had a lot more reds on a per game basis with him as well as players get tired and desperate.
Don Pedro said:
Delighted to hear the players are not thrown the manager under the bus and are fully behind him! I'd love nothing more than for Ange to turn this around
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We would all like him to turn it around and prove us wrong.
He won't.
 
$pursWin said:
I agree we were outplayed, especially in the 2nd half but goals scored and conceded dictate results. No penalties takes 2 goals away. We will never know whether they would have scored if those were not given. If and what’s and so on.
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They massively outplayed us.

Our two nil lead came from Sideshow Cunt falling over twice. Yes, we capitalised and took the goals well, but we got thoroughly outplayed at home.
 
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