Oh do go on...
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Management ENIC
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Oh do go on...
And I am
scarletjim
You want to show it in best possible light and ignore some of the people doing the tole. That is a valid opinion., however that is the only opinion you want to see.
The author wants to show it in a worse light and includes the other appointments doing exactly the same job. That is not an opinion you want to see, however it is still a valid one, and there is no reason not to show it, you don’t have to agree with it.
All this because some nobody on X posted a valid statement.
We have had 15 managers, we have had 12 full time managers in the period. Both statements are correct, and it really is nothing to get wound up about.
We did finish 17th, we also won a trophy, both those statements are also correct, you can’t just pick and choose which one you want and ignore the other like many have been doing, you can weight which is more important, but can’t ignore other valid views.
scarletjim
You want to show it in best possible light and ignore some of the people doing the tole. That is a valid opinion., however that is the only opinion you want to see.
The author wants to show it in a worse light and includes the other appointments doing exactly the same job. That is not an opinion you want to see, however it is still a valid one, and there is no reason not to show it, you don’t have to agree with it.
All this because some nobody on X posted a valid statement.
We have had 15 managers, we have had 12 full time managers in the period. Both statements are correct, and it really is nothing to get wound up about.
We did finish 17th, we also won a trophy, both those statements are also correct, you can’t just pick and choose which one you want and ignore the other like many have been doing, you can weight which is more important, but can’t ignore other valid views.
Pundits, especially ex players and cunts like Simon Jordan have no clue how the season ticket holder feels. Why would a player or manager on 100k+ per week give a shit about people who struggle to pay a season ticket and make sacrifices to see games?
Utter nonsense - I don't want to show it in the best possible light at all, where did you get that idea from? I don't even have a particular view on the number of managers we've had. Being severely autistic, I'm just always very interested in data, how it is used, how it is presented, and I do get frustrated by the general public's lack of understanding of the qualitative aspects of data, the relevance of criteria being used etc. Here, if the original post wants to show that we've had too many managers to be successful, then it makes more sense to exclude interims, as their entire purpose and origin is completely different to long-term hires, to lump the two in together is simply disingenuous. Statements can be true, but also worthless (or more in this case, have their worth diluted by their criteria - i.e. they could make the valid point without using such silly criteria).And I am
You want to show it in best possible light and ignore some of the people doing the tole. That is a valid opinion., however that is the only opinion you want to see.
The author wants to show it in a worse light and includes the other appointments doing exactly the same job. That is not an opinion you want to see, however it is still a valid one, and there is no reason not to show it, you don’t have to agree with it.
All this because some nobody on X posted a valid statement.
We have had 15 managers, we have had 12 full time managers in the period. Both statements are correct.
We did finish 17th, we also won a trophy, both those statements are also correct, you can’t just pick and choose which one you want and ignore the other like many have been doing.
I totally agree about the 17th place / cup win - but I think that's very different to what we are discussing here, those are two outcomes that could be said to show Ange did well / did badly, and to ignore either is just foolish. However in our discussion, including interim roles in a data set intended to show that the club basically chops and changes managers too often, dilutes the point being made, they were not intended to be long-term appointments.
As an aside (and hopefully infinitely more interesting than the above) is the question of which breeds which - do long-term managers breed success, or does success breed long-term managers? It is often assumed to be the former, but if you think about it, the latter also makes perfect sense - why would clubs regularly sack managers who are performing well? So the assumption that you need a long-term manager to be successful may be a misunderstanding, it may simply be that when you have a manager who continues to be successful, then you keep him, making him a long-term manager. Well, that's interesting to me anyway.
Totally agree with you.
Is nothing on there new at all.
I have to be honest on all of this it is the people on either side of the fence that say they can’t understand the other side of the arguments view, are the ones that just came out of it with no credit.
Of course there was a perfectly valid view to sacking Ange, he led to an appalling league season.
Of course there was a perfectly valid view to keeping Ange, we won a trophy.
People weigh up which is more important, do they cancel each other out, what is best going forward.
Digging in their own position is fine as long as they understood there was a valid opposite reason was fine. Not understanding the validity of the opposing view and abusing those which held it, was not.
Forget about numbers of managers, I think what we're seeing is that this is now the NINTH total re-think of what the club's basic purpose and strategy is during Levy's tenure. Managerial changes have marked most of them, but it goes much deeper than the dugout.
1. Levy's arrival and hiring Hoddle. De-Graham-ification, Levy doing deals, plan 1.0
2. The Santini-Arnesen-Jol dream team. Modern continental backroom-focused thinking, the intelligent businesslike managerialism Levy and Lewis always believed in. (Santini and Arnesen morphed over time into Jol and Comolli pursuing the same general idea)
3. Ramos. Latin Modern Tactics Genius Who Will Solve Everything #1
4. 'Arry. Bin all the dreams of modernity, back to the old school, this is an emergency.
5. AVB. Latin Modern Tactics Genius Who Will Solve Everything #2 (AVB and Baldini eventually morphed into Poch - LMTGWWSE #3 - and Mitchell then Hitchen pursuing the same general idea). The Wheeler Dealer interregnum is over.
6. Mourinho. Levy's white whale. Poch made us dare, Jose will make us do. "Trophies" debuting as a core part of the club's communications lexicon with the Amazon series.
7. Paratici, and Levy's partial withdrawal from the day-to-day of transfer scouting and negotiations. A trusted consigliere and prolific Levy-style dodgy dealmaker whose relationship with Conte was a key selling point, their union was always part of that plan.
8. Ange and the restoration of "Tottenham DNA". An attacking style of play linking the academy to the first team, and playing To Dare Is To Do football that makes the fans proud.
9. Venkatesham as CEO, Frank, and what it all means remains to be seen. Maybe this winds up having more commonality with the previous regime than we think, but it sure doesn't appear that way at the moment does it?
1. Levy's arrival and hiring Hoddle. De-Graham-ification, Levy doing deals, plan 1.0
2. The Santini-Arnesen-Jol dream team. Modern continental backroom-focused thinking, the intelligent businesslike managerialism Levy and Lewis always believed in. (Santini and Arnesen morphed over time into Jol and Comolli pursuing the same general idea)
3. Ramos. Latin Modern Tactics Genius Who Will Solve Everything #1
4. 'Arry. Bin all the dreams of modernity, back to the old school, this is an emergency.
5. AVB. Latin Modern Tactics Genius Who Will Solve Everything #2 (AVB and Baldini eventually morphed into Poch - LMTGWWSE #3 - and Mitchell then Hitchen pursuing the same general idea). The Wheeler Dealer interregnum is over.
6. Mourinho. Levy's white whale. Poch made us dare, Jose will make us do. "Trophies" debuting as a core part of the club's communications lexicon with the Amazon series.
7. Paratici, and Levy's partial withdrawal from the day-to-day of transfer scouting and negotiations. A trusted consigliere and prolific Levy-style dodgy dealmaker whose relationship with Conte was a key selling point, their union was always part of that plan.
8. Ange and the restoration of "Tottenham DNA". An attacking style of play linking the academy to the first team, and playing To Dare Is To Do football that makes the fans proud.
9. Venkatesham as CEO, Frank, and what it all means remains to be seen. Maybe this winds up having more commonality with the previous regime than we think, but it sure doesn't appear that way at the moment does it?
Now, if we can just have this posted at the top of every thread and have all of our members sign up to it, this site would be a much more worthwhile and productive (not to mention friendly) place.
Really just an embarassing reply, dear dear me
WTF is that? Liverpool have been winning titles forever.
Notice Real Madrid there at 48%? Clearly weird attempt at causality
It's the most upsetting part of this forum (although I tend to swerve non football threads, in case I encounter horror), the shaming and ridicule of other opinions from like minded spurs' fans. They're just that, opinions, neither is necessarily right but I wish we'd be a bit more empathetic to those who don't share our views but obviously share an emotional investment in the clubNow, if we can just have this posted at the top of every thread and have all of our members sign up to it, this site would be a much more worthwhile and productive (not to mention friendly) place.
Football clubs are always doing that though - they always say there's a grand plan, but in reality it's all done on the fly.
You could say the same about the recent total change in direction at PSG.
Really just an embarassing reply, dear dear me
Good to see that Barca are complying by the rules
Mate never let facts get in the way of people getting mad about ENIC
I’m going to give you some unwanted advice now. Why don’t you consider taking a break from here. Maybe a permanent one ? How would you feel about that ?
Is Staverley already calling the shots? Ange, Frank…
Only #1 & #2 made any sort of sense...
The rest reek of panic, stubbornness,stupidity, greed and ignorance!
Why have you replied to this again?
Phone battery died.
I was wondering if Buchler was responsible for Hoddle, like some kind of "let's fly in, get rid of the gooner, put a proper Spurs manager in place". I seem to remember that Levy came in around a year later after the initial takeover. My own observation and understanding is that DL wanted to put a Sporting Director type person in place, continental-style to run the club. I guess like a 'Monchi' of sorts. Each time we've tried, it hasn't really worked.
One can dream.
Deleted member 148
Guest
