Management ENIC

[Datzlo]

You care too much about what other people think. That's never healthy. Folk should let people support their team the way they like.

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Yes they should. Which is why those who are optimistic about our fortunes under Levy shouldn't come under attack and mockery for it, and maybe they shouldn't have to endure page after page of the same circlejerking complaints.

But they do. From people who are constantly saying that we look Mickey Mouse compared to our rivals.

Sure it's me who 'cares too much' about what others think?

 

[Kosher Kid]

I think it's more that, at least according to the ENIC Out crowd on the forum I generally frequent, that they feel we were a super-successful club in the 80s, not the 90s, and that this was a golden hey-day that Levy can't hold a candle to.

But the 80s weren't that great either, tbh. We came 3rd three times, which isn't awful, but it isn't a legacy of magnificence either, and we came 13th and 14th during that decade also. Of course, our signature successes came in the cups, but even then it's a little sketch when you look at it:

In 1981 we needed a replay to beat 12th place Manchester City in the final, but then again we came 10th that year, so maybe it was evenly matched. The leauge of course was won by Aston Villa, who then won the European Cup the following season.

In 1982 we needed a replay again, but this time against 2nd Division's QPR. 1-0 to the Tottenham, which is a little less impressive than the 3-1 Liverpool beat us with in the League Cup final, but then again they won the league while we came 4th.

In 1984 we fell to 8th in the league, but did manage to win the UEFA Cup, and much enjoyment was had, which was good because we were out of the FA Cup by the 4th Round; a common theme for us during the 80s. In fact, aside from losing to Coventry in 87, we didn't even so much as reach a quarter final in the competition for the rest of the decade, although we did manage another semi in the LC.

So three or four good seasons, but none of them particularly amazing, and the rest was fill with disappointment. Maybe that's why attendance figures weren't great in the 80s. Definitely some parts to be proud of, but otherwise we were little more than a 'good team' during this period.

But you just watch the complaints come hurling in now that I'm denigrating our illustrious past, "call yourself a Spurs fan" etc, without them once considering how juicy the irony is...



Because again, they've internalized the hatred of others. Spurs became such a laughing stock in the 90s that we've never recovered, and probably the last time the old heads felt able to be proud of Tottenham was in the 80s. They yearn for the FA Cup, to redeem their broken hearts from decades ago, and to soothe the wounds of rival fans taking the piss out of our recent trophy cabinet.

They're not looking at the matter and considering the overrall health of the club and its place within the world of football. They're looking at it through the lens of wearing the shirt in London etc, and not getting wound up over it. Until Levy makes them whole again, until Levy gives them back their pride in winning the FA Cup, nothing is ever good enough and anyone who disagrees is a traitor to the God It Sucks To Be A Spurs Fan brigade.

At least, that's what I assume. I never hear much better arguments to persuade me otherwise.

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This has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read on TFC.

In 1982 Spurs were 1-0 up against Liverpool, in the League Cup Final, until the 89th minute. We had never lost a game at Wembley until that day and Liverpool went on to win 3-1 in extra time. Spurs were very unlucky not to win.

You also completely forgot to mention that Spurs lost to Barcelona, over two legs, in the European Cup Winners Cup semi final.

Another fact you've overlooked was that from May 1st to May 17th 1982 Spurs were asked to play 8 league games by the football league.

That would never happen today.

Check it out for yourself.

TOPSPURS - the world famous home of Tottenham Hotspur on the internet

Spurs went all the way in the F.A. Cup and retained it too.

The lengths some people will go to; to apologise for the current regime is unbelievable.

 

[Timothy bird]

This has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read on TFC.

In 1982 Spurs were 1-0 up against Liverpool, in the League Cup Final, until the 89th minute. We had never lost a game at Wembley until that day and Liverpool went on to win 3-1 in extra time. Spurs were very unlucky not to win.

You also completely forgot to mention that Spurs lost to Barcelona, over two legs, in the European Cup Winners Cup semi final.

Another fact you've overlooked was that from May 1st to May 17th 1982 Spurs were asked to play 8 league games by the football league.

That would never happen today.

Check it out for yourself.

TOPSPURS - the world famous home of Tottenham Hotspur on the internet

Spurs went all the way in the F.A. Cup and retained it too.

The lengths some people will go to to apologise for the current regime is unbelievable.

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If only Archibald had put us 2-0 up

 

[Datzlo]

I'm not sure how true that is. Real Madrid and Barcelona have billion euro stadium projects, United apparently will soon, everybody is trying to do this.

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As the most successful teams (Liverpool aside) in their league/country's history, maybe they should be. Fact is we did it first though, despite not having the legacy of fame and success they rely upon every year to fuel their fortunes.

To the extent they can they become just like us, except with an ethic of competition that Spurs have never and will never have under Levy.

To the extent they can't they get left in the dust on the turnover side, but because of said ethic of competition they will extend their club's limited resources much more aggressively to maintain parity at least.

To Dare Is Too Dear for us, for EVERYONE else it is not.

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For the super-rich, mostly oil-funded clubs, it is not. For everyone else, us included, it's really bloody hard, and only Liverpool have truly based their success on sheer sporting excellence. I would rather we try to copy them with smart, moneyball-esque transfer policies and managerial appointments until we can reach that level.

The fact that Levy managed to build state-of-the-art training facilities, a billion pound stadium, a global brand and a squad capable of challenging for both the PL and the CL titles, all whilst surrounded by the greatest and most unprecedented level of financial doping/dominance in the history of the sport... is reason why I personally am Levy In, despite his screw-ups along the way.

You can disagree with that if you like, but what profit the club makes has gone straight back into the club, and I think we've done a hell of a job trying to keep up.

 

[Datzlo]

This has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read on TFC.

In 1982 Spurs were 1-0 up against Liverpool, in the League Cup Final, until the 89th minute. We had never lost a game at Wembley until that day and Liverpool went on to win 3-1 in extra time. Spurs were very unlucky not to win.

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And? We were also unlucky to give away a penalty in the first minute of the CL final. That pretty much killed the game.

I don't want to hear about how we 'almost won' something, or else I have quite a few of those from the ENIC era to tell you about too.

You also completely forgot to mention that Spurs lost to Barcelona, over two legs, in the European Cup Winners Cup semi final.

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Gosh, we really were flying high then weren't we? They must have been just a smidgeon better than QPR.

Spurs went all the way in the F.A. Cup and retained it too.

The lengths some people will go to to apologise for the current regime is unbelievable.

Click to shrink...

LOL you've just given me a list of excuses for why we didn't win anything, and then you have the balls to say this??

I did say the irony would be completely missed...

 

[MemphisWill]

I think it's more that, at least according to the ENIC Out crowd on the forum I generally frequent, that they feel we were a super-successful club in the 80s, not the 90s, and that this was a golden hey-day that Levy can't hold a candle to.

But the 80s weren't that great either, tbh. We came 3rd three times, which isn't awful, but it isn't a legacy of magnificence either, and we came 13th and 14th during that decade also. Of course, our signature successes came in the cups, but even then it's a little sketch when you look at it:

In 1981 we needed a replay to beat 12th place Manchester City in the final, but then again we came 10th that year, so maybe it was evenly matched. The leauge of course was won by Aston Villa, who then won the European Cup the following season.

In 1982 we needed a replay again, but this time against 2nd Division's QPR. 1-0 to the Tottenham, which is a little less impressive than the 3-1 Liverpool beat us with in the League Cup final, but then again they won the league while we came 4th.

In 1984 we fell to 8th in the league, but did manage to win the UEFA Cup, and much enjoyment was had, which was good because we were out of the FA Cup by the 4th Round; a common theme for us during the 80s. In fact, aside from losing to Coventry in 87, we didn't even so much as reach a quarter final in the competition for the rest of the decade, although we did manage another semi in the LC.

So three or four good seasons, but none of them particularly amazing, and the rest was fill with disappointment. Maybe that's why attendance figures weren't great in the 80s. Definitely some parts to be proud of, but otherwise we were little more than a 'good team' during this period.

But you just watch the complaints come hurling in now that I'm denigrating our illustrious past, "call yourself a Spurs fan" etc, without them once considering how juicy the irony is...



Because again, they've internalized the hatred of others. Spurs became such a laughing stock in the 90s that we've never recovered, and probably the last time the old heads felt able to be proud of Tottenham was in the 80s. They yearn for the FA Cup, to redeem their broken hearts from decades ago, and to soothe the wounds of rival fans taking the piss out of our recent trophy cabinet.

They're not looking at the matter and considering the overrall health of the club and its place within the world of football. They're looking at it through the lens of wearing the shirt in London etc, and not getting wound up over it. Until Levy makes them whole again, until Levy gives them back their pride in winning the FA Cup, nothing is ever good enough and anyone who disagrees is a traitor to the God It Sucks To Be A Spurs Fan brigade.

At least, that's what I assume. I never hear much better arguments to persuade me otherwise.

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See this post (and others I've made with similar content).

Statements like this sometimes reflect a disconnect between reality and nostalgia.

The reality is, including LCs which I have my very poor opinion of, Spurs have won 17 trophies in 142 years. Most of those came from 3 bursts: 5 in the 60s, 3 in the early 70s, 3 in the early 80s.

Even if you spread them out equally, Spurs should have won 3 trophies so far under ENIC and they've won 1. Underachieving, yes.

But we've been in enough finals that the players and managers employed could have made up that margin.

In fact, because it makes a great comparison:

Golden Quarter 1960-1985: 12 Finals, 6 Semis (10 Cups)
ENIC 2000-2024 2025: 6 7 Finals, 8 Semis (1 2 Cups)

So the numbers of Semis isn't markedly different between the eras - 18 to 14 15. The most significant difference is, during the Golden Quarter if we got to a Semi we generally won the trophy (10/18). During ENIC's era we've typically lost the Semi, and if not we've lost the final (1/14).

All the blame for failing in the last 90-180 minutes of a tournament can't fall on the bald guy sitting in a room a couple hundred feet away from the pitch. The players and managers were good enough to get to the cusp of glory...they really should have been able to get across the line more than 1 out of 14 tries.

ENIC have certainly presided over a disappointing era, but people need to stop acting as if it's an unmitigated disaster which has disgraced a once colossal all-triumphant club. In 21 months under ENIC, Poch lost as many title races as Tottenham have ever won in its history.

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You can now update the ENIC Era to 7 Finals, 8 Semis (15 SF reached, 3 less than the GQ), and 2 Cups (8 less than the GQ).

The difference still predominately being that we've bottled finals under ENIC. Our baseline league performance is slightly better (though, of course, no title to equal 1961), and our progression in the cups is slightly worse but relatively similar. Its just that we've generally lost the finals.

Anywho

 

[FightingIllini]

You love that picture don't you.

Tell me, why would you be happier being in the exact same position but with Aston Villa's numbers?

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No, I hate that picture! I find that picture viscerally upsetting!

And I think we both know that if our wage bill MORE THAN DOUBLED we would not be in remotely the same position.

But forget Villa's numbers, let's say West Ham's. What West Ham's owners can say to their fans is "we are in line with the industry standard of ambition and investment of the club's resources on the pitch".

ENIC cannot say that. We are dead last in this measurement every year, and will be even further off the pace when the next figures are released.

Would I be HAPPY if Levy met industry standards and we didn't win? Of course not. Was Bilbao one of the great sporting joys of my lifetime regardless of an under-invested team? Of course! The game is about glory, in both directions.

But if Spurs were operating in line with industry standards I would not feel that we the supporters are being ripped off. And that's a very tiresome and corrosive thing, something that stirs the soul into thousands of pages of internet blather on the subject.

 

[Kosher Kid]

And? We were also unlucky to give away a penalty in the first minute of the CL final. That pretty much killed the game.

I don't want to hear about how we 'almost won' something, or else I have quite a few of those from the ENIC era to tell you about too.



Gosh, we really were flying high then weren't we? They must have been just a smidgeon better than QPR.



LOL you've just given me a list of excuses for why we didn't win anything, and then you have the balls to say this??

I did say the irony would be completely missed...

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There's no irony here.

THFC could have only played one more game than they actually did in 1982.

They were genuinely competing in four competitions and ended up with a fixture pile up because of it.

1986 / 87 was a similar story.

You clearly didn't experience the 80's and I'm sorry for you for that.

Please do not attempt to conflate Levy and ENIC's THFC with the club we were at that time.

You are just making yourself look a right tit.

 

[Datzlo]

There's no irony here.

THFC could have only played one more game than they actually did in 1982.

They were genuinely competing in four competitions and ended up with a fixture pile up because of it.

1986 / 87 was a similar story.

You clearly didn't experience the 80's and I'm sorry for you for that.

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I'm not. I'm glad you have those memories, and I don't begrudge them. I just get tired of it being used as a stick with which to beat the present, especially after the drag factor of the 90s.

Please do not attempt to conflate Levy and ENIC's THFC with the club we were at that time.

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Conflate? No. Compare, yes, and I think it's evident we have done better under ENIC than during the 80s. We have our 2nd-best league performance period in the club's history, and our greatest-ever European presence.

We just haven't been winning the FA Cup.

You are just making yourself look a right tit.

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I'm only using the same arguments about the 80s that are constantly used to denigrate anything we've done under ENIC. Our league position was generally crap, we bombed out of the domestic cups early in most seasons, and the ones we won were hard-fought affairs against second (or third!) rate opposition. We needed an own goal to salvage a draw against City, and a penalty to win a replay against a Division 2 side.

And yet you think this was our greatest era!

 

[Shadydan]

You care too much about what other people think. That's never healthy. Folk should let people support their team the way they like.

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I'm sorry but

Lol

 

[LeParisien]

I'm not sure how true that is. Real Madrid and Barcelona have billion euro stadium projects, United apparently will soon, everybody is trying to do this.

To the extent they can they become just like us, except with an ethic of competition that Spurs have never and will never have under Levy.

To the extent they can't they get left in the dust on the turnover side, but because of said ethic of competition they will extend their club's limited resources much more aggressively to maintain parity at least.

To Dare Is Too Dear for us, for EVERYONE else it is not.

Disagree with that if you like, identify with the profit accumulation logic of ENIC if you like, whatever. But the post I responded to was performatively wondering how could anyone not be happy with ENIC? It ain't fuckin' rocket science.

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To dare is too dear is a glib one liner designed to pretend we are a bigger club than we’ve ever been.

We’ve seen historic investment in the football club and we’ve never had better players in our history than the likes of Modric, Bale, Kane and Son.

If you’re not happy now, you won’t ever have been happy supporting spurs apart from a two years in the 1960s.

Serious MAGA vibes, pining for a time that doesn’t really exist.

 

[Kosher Kid]

I think it's evident we have done better under ENIC than during the 80s

Click to shrink...

 

[Kosher Kid]

We just haven't been winning the FA Cup.

Click to shrink...

 

[LeParisien]

I think it's more that, at least according to the ENIC Out crowd on the forum I generally frequent, that they feel we were a super-successful club in the 80s, not the 90s, and that this was a golden hey-day that Levy can't hold a candle to.

But the 80s weren't that great either, tbh. We came 3rd three times, which isn't awful, but it isn't a legacy of magnificence either, and we came 13th and 14th during that decade also. Of course, our signature successes came in the cups, but even then it's a little sketch when you look at it:

In 1981 we needed a replay to beat 12th place Manchester City in the final, but then again we came 10th that year, so maybe it was evenly matched. The leauge of course was won by Aston Villa, who then won the European Cup the following season.

In 1982 we needed a replay again, but this time against 2nd Division's QPR. 1-0 to the Tottenham, which is a little less impressive than the 3-1 Liverpool beat us with in the League Cup final, but then again they won the league while we came 4th.

In 1984 we fell to 8th in the league, but did manage to win the UEFA Cup, and much enjoyment was had, which was good because we were out of the FA Cup by the 4th Round; a common theme for us during the 80s. In fact, aside from losing to Coventry in 87, we didn't even so much as reach a quarter final in the competition for the rest of the decade, although we did manage another semi in the LC.

So three or four good seasons, but none of them particularly amazing, and the rest was fill with disappointment. Maybe that's why attendance figures weren't great in the 80s. Definitely some parts to be proud of, but otherwise we were little more than a 'good team' during this period.

But you just watch the complaints come hurling in now that I'm denigrating our illustrious past, "call yourself a Spurs fan" etc, without them once considering how juicy the irony is...



Because again, they've internalized the hatred of others. Spurs became such a laughing stock in the 90s that we've never recovered, and probably the last time the old heads felt able to be proud of Tottenham was in the 80s. They yearn for the FA Cup, to redeem their broken hearts from decades ago, and to soothe the wounds of rival fans taking the piss out of our recent trophy cabinet.

They're not looking at the matter and considering the overrall health of the club and its place within the world of football. They're looking at it through the lens of wearing the shirt in London etc, and not getting wound up over it. Until Levy makes them whole again, until Levy gives them back their pride in winning the FA Cup, nothing is ever good enough and anyone who disagrees is a traitor to the God It Sucks To Be A Spurs Fan brigade.

At least, that's what I assume. I never hear much better arguments to persuade me otherwise.

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Long post but on the money.

Fans are more concerned by banter than enjoying a historically excellent period in our club history.

Like MAGA, they’re pining of a time that didn’t exist.

 

[Kosher Kid]

To dare is too dear is a glib one liner designed to pretend we are a bigger club than we’ve ever been.

We’ve seen historic investment in the football club and we’ve never had better players in our history than the likes of Modric, Bale, Kane and Son.

If you’re not happy now, you won’t ever have been happy supporting spurs apart from a two years in the 1960s.

Serious MAGA vibes, pining for a time that doesn’t really exist.

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Everybody in the UK saw how big a football club THFC is / was while Ange and the team paraded the Europa League trophy.

The cat is finally out of the bag.

THFC are a big time football club.

Always have been.

Apologising for Levy and ENIC is small time and for the worst kind of wankers.

 

[Datzlo]

Crystal Palace won the FA Cup last season and were awarded 2m in prize money.

That just about covered Adam Wharton's wage bill for the season.

 

[spursmalc]

There seems no middle ground. I think it is only fair to recognise that Levy/ENIC have built good facilities and improved the financial standing from a low when they took over. But like with Ange who got us a European title, you have to look at the future. Will the current finances and strategy from ENIC move us forward or do we now need to move to new Ownership to move forward. I think we do now need new ownership that will invest more but when/if Levy goes like Ange we should be thankful for what he has achieved but for the good of the club, we need new owners.

 

[Datzlo]

Apologising for Levy and ENIC is small time and for the worst kind of wankers.

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But I just got told that everyone should be able to be whatever kind of fan they want...

Tell me, how can I become Big Time and a better calibre of wanker, just like you?

 

[FightingIllini]

We’ve seen historic investment in the football club and we’ve never had better players in our history than the likes of Modric, Bale, Kane and Son.

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Mate we sold Bale twelve years ago and were closer to the top of the league then than we are now.

Tell me, how can I become Big Time and a better calibre of wanker, just like you?

Click to shrink...

 

[LeParisien]

Everybody in the UK saw how big a football club THFC is / was while Ange and the team paraded the Europa League trophy.

The cat is finally out of the bag.

THFC are a big time football club.

Always have been.

Apologising for Levy and ENIC is small time and for the worst kind of wankers.

Click to shrink...

You’re saying everything and it’s opposite.

If we’re a big time club, then what’s your complaint? You want us to be a big time club? It’s circular nonsense.

You’ve never been happy being a spurs supporter and the online banter culture is making you less happy as the years go by. Stop caring what other people think.