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Wing play at Tottenham. Why do we persist?

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Suzyfree said:
If you want to play a low line, you'll have to get a manager with a receding hair line. Tony Pulis comes to mind.
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Lennon had a receding goatee today. What was that thing on his face?

When I heard the starting lineup today, I pretty much marveled at how fucking clueless Sherwood is. It's amazing how you can stare at a green thing with humans running around on it and not have the first fucking clue about what is happening with the round thing and the netty thing.

He is either medically/literally mentally retarded, or he is match fixing. Even the American commentator before the game was saying he hoped that Sherwood was not planning on playing Eriksen on the left. An American commentator/former player knows more about the game than Sherwood!

 
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Also, what is up with the current trend of subbing Townsend for Lennon? You can not find another player in the prem who more closely resembles Lennon's style of play than Townsend.

Albert Einstein:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
 
gibbs131 said:
Lennon had a receding goatee today. What was that thing on his face?

When I heard the starting lineup today, I pretty much marveled at how fucking clueless Sherwood is. It's amazing how you can stare at a green thing with humans running around on it and not have the first fucking clue about what is happening with the round thing and the netty thing.

He is either medically/literally mentally retarded, or he is match fixing. Even the American commentator before the game was saying he hoped that Sherwood was not planning on playing Eriksen on the left. An American commentator/former player knows more about the game than Sherwood!

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It's not that Americans don't know anything about football, it's just that our youth "system" (really, you can hardly call it that) is complete and total shit. Ergo we grow up learning to play the wrong way (imagine a squad of 11 mini-Dawsons all attempting long balls upfield), but end up knowing a bit more about the game by the time we've gotten a little older and stuck with watching matches. TV deals with NBC and ESPN (plus the trusty old internet) have definitely helped get us more exposure in recent years, luckily. The MLS youth setup is getting better from what I hear, but the local teams are in a perpetual state of fail.

They just want us all to play american football, baseball or basketball.
 
Wikipedia Brown said:
It's not that Americans don't know anything about football, it's just that our youth "system" (really, you can hardly call it that) is complete and total shit. Ergo we grow up learning to play the wrong way (imagine a squad of 11 mini-Dawsons all attempting long balls upfield), but end up knowing a bit more about the game by the time we've gotten a little older and stuck with watching matches. TV deals with NBC and ESPN (plus the trusty old internet) have definitely helped get us more exposure in recent years, luckily. The MLS youth setup is getting better from what I hear, but the local teams are in a perpetual state of fail.

They just want us all to play american football, baseball or basketball.
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A lot of it is because most Americans over the age of 25 grew up with coaches that didn't even grow up playing the game before. The growing popularity and competitiveness of the game in the US can certainly be attributed to the fact that most coaches at instructional levels at this point have now played the game their entire lives. Even as of 20 years ago, the notion that Americans knew nothing about the game was a fair standpoint. However, now it shows as much ignorance as suggesting every Brit to read this was shoving their face full of tea and crumpets in that very moment.
 
Wikipedia Brown said:
It's not that Americans don't know anything about football, it's just that our youth "system" (really, you can hardly call it that) is complete and total shit. Ergo we grow up learning to play the wrong way (imagine a squad of 11 mini-Dawsons all attempting long balls upfield), but end up knowing a bit more about the game by the time we've gotten a little older and stuck with watching matches. TV deals with NBC and ESPN (plus the trusty old internet) have definitely helped get us more exposure in recent years, luckily. The MLS youth setup is getting better from what I hear, but the local teams are in a perpetual state of fail.

They just want us all to play american football, baseball or basketball.
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We seem to have an old boys network when it comes to coaching. Why gamble on Les, when there are seasoned coaches out there? Our sample size is too small to unearth gems if we keep on going the ex player route.
 
cahspur said:
A lot of it is because most Americans over the age of 25 grew up with coaches that didn't even grow up playing the game before. The growing popularity and competitiveness of the game in the US can certainly be attributed to the fact that most coaches at instructional levels at this point have now played the game their entire lives. Even as of 20 years ago, the notion that Americans knew nothing about the game was a fair standpoint. However, now it shows as much ignorance as suggesting every Brit to read this was shoving their face full of tea and crumpets in that very moment.
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I could be too cynical, but I noticed grass roots coaching over here in the US seems to be more of a money making endeavour. Not just soccer, but all sports. It all seems set up to bleed parents dry. It does not even have to be a registered sport. Music class, cheerleading etc etc it's all a massive lobbied industry. I wonder if underarmour are one of the biggest players.

images
 
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gibbs131 said:
I could be too cynical, but I noticed grass roots coaching over here in the US seems to be more of a money making endeavour. Not just soccer, but all sports. It all seems set up to bleed parents dry. It does not even have to be a registered sport. Music class, cheerleading etc etc it's all a massive lobbied industry. I wonder if underarmour are one of the biggest players.

images
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Very true. But regardless, even if driven by folks looking to leach off upper middle class auburn am kids, the game has gotten more competitive nonetheless.
 
cahspur said:
Very true. But regardless, even if driven by folks looking to leach off upper middle class auburn am kids, the game has gotten more competitive nonetheless.
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Yeah it is night and day. I remember going to see Tampa mutiny play 13 years ago at the Raymond James stadium. It was hilarious how slow it was. I got to see Valderrama play though, haha.

valderrama-o.gif
 
here is the reason why
TOWNSEND- Poor technical ability and cannot pass in the final 3rd
CHADLI - Poor technical ability and cannot pass in the final 3rd
LENNON-Poor technical ability and cannot pass in the final 3rd
ROSE-Poor technical ability and a championship player
Naughton- Poor but once in a blue moon can find his man
Walker- poor but compensates with work rate
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Eriksen- good technical ability
Adebayor- good technical ability
sigurdsson - ok technical ability
Lamela -good technical ability

Solution : Don't play or sign shit players.
 
trifficTotnum said:
here is the reason why
TOWNSEND- Poor technical ability and cannot pass in the final 3rd
CHADLI - Poor technical ability and cannot pass in the final 3rd
LENNON-Poor technical ability and cannot pass in the final 3rd
ROSE-Poor technical ability and a championship player
Naughton- Poor but once in a blue moon can find his man
Walker- poor but compensates with work rate
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Eriksen- good technical ability
Adebayor- good technical ability
sigurdsson - ok technical ability
Lamela -good technical ability

Solution : Don't play or sign shit players.
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I agree with most of that. I think there is hope for Walker who is my fav player. He just needs to defend and not roam so much. I think if you beef up the rest of the team with quality athletes, Chadli could work out. Right now it's keystone cops and hard to judge him. Siggy should move on though. Not because hes a bad player, but his best position is the final third, and I think the payoff of an Eriksen or a Lamela will be bigger.
 
gibbs131 said:
I agree with most of that. I think there is hope for Walker who is my fav player. He just needs to defend and not roam so much. I think if you beef up the rest of the team with quality athletes, Chadli could work out. Right now it's keystone cops and hard to judge him. Siggy should move on though. Not because hes a bad player, but his best position is the final third, and I think the payoff of an Eriksen or a Lamela will be bigger.
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walker is one player who is an absolute Ox, He is one of those few players who isn't exactly the smartests players but his athleticism will always earn him a place, Chadli I am not impressed by , he dosen't seem arsed at times.

thing about townsend and lennon is that they make us 'look good',it's like coming to the party ina £1000 suit only to have an empty wallet, they contribute very little to the art of scoring goals.
 
trifficTotnum said:
walker is one player who is an absolute Ox, He is one of those few players who isn't exactly the smartests players but his athleticism will always earn him a place, Chadli I am not impressed by , he dosen't seem arsed at times.

thing about townsend and lennon is that they make us 'look good',it's like coming to the party ina £1000 suit only to have an empty wallet, they contribute very little to the art of scoring goals.
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Yep. If you keep Walkers game simple and just have him defend, I can't see anyone that can beat him one on one. And if you put someone in front of him that can intercept runners that side of the pitch will be locked up for 10 years.

We need a water spray bottle and use it on him like training a cat. If's he's trying to take a corner in practice, spray him. If he is trying to overlap and put a cross in, spray him. If he's trying to take a free kick from 40 yards out, spray him. If he's holding the line and tracking runners off the ball, give him a can of tuna.

Remember when he was given a free role, watching him run around was like:



Just change the laser pointer to a ball. IMO he has been so stretched but our lack of shape/high line he's done a Sandro. Run himself into the ground, overextended himself and that leads to Gazza style injuries.
 
TOMO said:
5 we both have great expectation only for it to be dashed.
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Regarding this: There is a reverse aspect to it. Expectations can go both ways. IMO very worst thing that can happen in the remaining 6 games Lennon, Rose, Naughton and Townsend score, create and win most of the remaining games.

That will be a disaster.

Why? We still won't make 4th, and it will basically mug the next manager into building teams around the likes of Lennon and Townsend again and we will be back to soft Spurs with predictable/terrible buildup and soft flanks next season. The same thing happened with AVB with Lennon, Hudd and Defoe last season. Defoe was banging them in early in the season, Lennon and Hudd were playing great and we were hovering around 4th and we trailed off.

A soft English core of players have done in most of our managers. Jol was let down by JJ, Hudd, Defoe, O'Hara, Lennon etc. It seems they ALWAYS underperform and never reach their potential.

If whoever takes the reins from TimTim, and they take on our usual flashy brand of players with massive talent but nothing in the final third, they will get the sack within 2 years of up and down nonsense. Sherwood is currently learning the hard way from Rose, Naughton, Dawson, Townsend and Lennon.

"What the fark is going on? They are farkin murderin peeple in practace??"

If we buy british, we need to make damn sure they are boring as fuck. If anyone comes in with swagger, it will be the usual vapid wankery we have had to deal with. The best English players in recent memory have generally been boring as fuck. Carrick, Scotty Parker, Daws (he is a good player generally) etc. Get dour players obsessed with football, not the trapping of fame. Ledley is the only player with a suspect night life I can think of that was a great player.
 
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gibbs131 said:
Regarding this: There is a reverse aspect to it. Expectations can go both ways. IMO very worst thing that can happen in the remaining 6 games Lennon, Rose, Naughton and Townsend score, create and win most of the remaining games.

That will be a disaster.

Why? We still won't make 4th, and it will basically mug the next manager into building teams around the likes of Lennon and Townsend again and we will be back to soft Spurs with predictable/terrible buildup and soft flanks next season. The same thing happened with AVB with Lennon, Hudd and Defoe last season. Defoe was banging them in early in the season, Lennon and Hudd were playing great and we were hovering around 4th and we trailed off.

A soft English core of players have done in most of our managers. Jol was let down by JJ, Hudd, Defoe, O'Hara, Lennon etc. It seems they ALWAYS underperform and never reach their potential.

If whoever takes the reins from TimTim, and they take on our usual flashy brand of players with massive talent but nothing in the final third, they will get the sack within 2 years of up and down nonsense. Sherwood is currently learning the hard way from Rose, Naughton, Dawson, Townsend and Lennon.

"What the fark is going on? They are farkin murderin peeple in practace??"

If we buy british, we need to make damn sure they are boring as fuck. If anyone comes in with swagger, it will be the usual vapid wankery we have had to deal with. The best English players in recent memory have generally been boring as fuck. Carrick, Scotty Parker, Daws (he is a good player generally) etc. Get dour players obsessed with football, not the trapping of fame. Ledley is the only player with a suspect night life I can think of that was a great player.
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It's funny you do get the feeling avb and Sherwood sit around in training thinking fuck these players are good only to scratch their heads in games wondering why it's all going wrong. A lot of our players have 'no final product syndrome' I assume lvg with his long. Experience might be quite ruthless with some of our players.
 
Another game where soft wing/wingback play down each side contributed to us being soft Spurs.

Sherwood changed the shape in the 2nd. It was still all over the place but it worked out better. Fryers came on, Rose was put on the wing and we played a little more central with Eriksen along with what looked like 3 at the back with Paulinho sweeping up.

So even with a messy team shape, the op did not get a shot on target in the second and we dominated. The players that did not do anything in the second was Rose who terrible on the left wing, and when Townsend came on he gave it away often where they broke and almost scored from.

Only Lennon came away with a good second half out of our wingers and he was a ghost in the first. Lucky for him at least Sherwood gave him some big units to aim at and he got his second prem assist of the season.

We can't carry on with wing backs and wingers. By the look on Sherwoods face when Naughton did that risky back header that led to a goal, or Rose skying a good chance I think it's dawned on him too.
 
Hegarz said:
Yeah but you need space to exploit, if you have genuinely creative players, you don't want a congested midfield. Widen the pitch and give them space to operate in.
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IMO we have a spine that can win 50/50's. If we have danger all over the pitch in the final third, we can challenge teams who don't have the physical or technical skills to beat us.

Lennon, Townsned, Rose, Naughton and Walker simply don't put up enough attacking stats regardless of pitch. Them overlapping is an exercise in failure when it comes to creating or scoring and winning.

What we do have are central players that will give you a BATTLE. They need to do the dirty work and provide a base for our skillful players in the final third. We also need to support the frail players by putting some muscle next to them.

We can win a congested midfield. They can try and spoil all they like. IMO Eriksen, Lamela and Holtby are better at picking locks than our wingers/wingbacks and Ade has a history of assists for us. The right players need to be in the final third. It's all too often that it is Lennon, Townsend, Rose etc that are scuffing final balls and shots and on the flip side, leave us wide open.
 
gibbs131 said:
IMO we have a spine that can win 50/50's. If we have danger all over the pitch in the final third, we can challenge teams who don't have the physical or technical skills to beat us.

Lennon, Townsned, Rose, Naughton and Walker simply don't put up enough attacking stats regardless of pitch. Them overlapping is an exercise in failure when it comes to creating or scoring and winning.

What we do have are central players that will give you a BATTLE. They need to do the dirty work and provide a base for our skillful players in the final third. We also need to support the frail players by putting some muscle next to them.

We can win a congested midfield. They can try and spoil all they like. IMO Eriksen, Lamela and Holtby are better at picking locks than our wingers/wingbacks and Ade has a history of assists for us. The right players need to be in the final third. It's all too often that it is Lennon, Townsend, Rose etc that are scuffing final balls and shots and on the flip side, leave us wide open.
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But then all our "battlers" do is kick it out wide against a congested opposition, and as such they're predictably shut down. We've no one in the middle with the ability to drive through the middle, to cause oppositions to react and shift, to back-peddle. They can always face the ball because they know exactly how and when we're going to pass. So easy for a manager to watch a bit of tape and make things difficult for us with some very simple instructions for his players.
 
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