I think we can all agree , whilst it’s nice to win football matches , the enjoyment factor has to be there , maybe it’s a Spurs thing but I can’t watch this football and I get very little enjoyment even if we win , there is no spark , no intensity , it’s just moments , a corner , set piece , the odd shot . The players look fed up , the fans are aswell. Every other game I watch I see patterns of play but with us I genuinely haven’t got a clue what we’re trying to do .
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Manager Thomas Frank
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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Bodo glimt away as well this season. That was car crash to watch as well until vdv took the initiative and got us out of shit. Imo Frank wont be at our club next season.
I think your right but would tweek it slightly so have Sarr instead of odobert/tel and use him as a box crashing 8/10
So we look something like this in possesion.
[LINEUP]vicario
Romero Palhinho VDV
Bergvall/Bentancur
Porro kudus xavi udogie
RKM Sarr[/LINEUP]
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Tell me you don't understand stats without telling me you don't understand stats...
The xG table has proven season after season to be a reasonable proxy for actual points tally, so to call it 'bollox' simply suggests that you don't understand it, and therefore don't accept it. Of course the game is about talent, but underlying stats do provide some clues as to how much talent a player or team has, and how effectively it is being utilised. I'm not saying it should be used in isolation, and I'm most certainly not saying that stats alone should be used to decide which players we sign, I'm simply saying that it is definitely not 'bollox', it is one of a range of useful tools that can and should be used to analyse players and teams (including, of course, the "eye test"). Just because you either don't like it, or don't understand it, or both, doesn't change it's effectivenes, and completing ignoring / rubbishing underlying stats is just as stupid as ignoring the eye test.
Concentrated efforts indeed
I’m looking at the players’ mannerisms and body language — you’re right, I don’t have hard evidence, but come on, football is literally a sport built on speculation. Everyone in this thread does the exact same thing every day. Practically every post is someone guessing, assuming or interpreting what they think is happening.
You watched the match yesterday, right? What did you see that made you think the players are happy or playing for the manager? We find the football boring as fuck so is it so surprising that our players would find it boring as well? The end of the Chelsea match were our captain and Spence dismissed the coach spoke volumes, they're not happy with something about him or the style IMO, to do that in public was kinda damming.
And are you really this bothered about having a personal back-and-forth online over something I said about our manager? Is this genuinely what you’re focusing on? That’s a you problem, not a me problem. Maybe spend a bit less time obsessing over my comments and a bit more time actually watching the football, mate.
Agree with you. For me something isn't quite right with Frank and the players. You don't go into two huge derbies against Chelsea and Woolwich and play like we did unless something is seriously wrong. The manager has only been here 4 months.
As a comparison, I watch Everton play against Liverpool, a far superior side, but Everton are proper at it. Effort levels through the roof. Closing the obvious quality gap.
Now I slagged Ange off because he was completely clueless tactically. But even that famous Chelsea game, we actually started the game on fire until the Romero sending off. We were a terrinly naive team under Ange, and we got thumped in the end, but the players were at least giving it a go. Now that wasn't the case for the whole of his tenure, but it's clear the players bought into him at the start, until it eventually fell apart.
What I have seen under Frank in these performances early on, is a squad and team that are not giving their all. Sorry to say. Yesterday and Chelsea was a fucking disgrace.
I can't remember the last football team who have been so pathetic in their main derbies. You don't see it from United against City, Everton against Liverpool. But with us? utterly fucking shocking, like the players couldn't give two shits. We are definitely the worst team I can remember watching in games against their rivals.
Nothing will boil the piss of a fanbase more than that.
For me Frank is on very thin ice right now. I can't remember the last Spurs manager who oversaw such pitiful derby performances.
Under Ange we were diabolical in his second season, but in the first season we still had a go, even though we lost. Under Frank we are losing and also not even having a go, it's got even worse.
Concerted my bad.Concentrated efforts indeed
I’m looking at the players’ mannerisms and body language — you’re right, I don’t have hard evidence, but come on, football is literally a sport built on speculation. Everyone in this thread does the exact same thing every day. Practically every post is someone guessing, assuming or interpreting what they think is happening.
You watched the match yesterday, right? What did you see that made you think the players are happy or playing for the manager? We find the football boring as fuck so is it so surprising that our players would find it boring as well? The end of the Chelsea match were our captain and Spence dismissed the coach spoke volumes, they're not happy with something about him or the style IMO, to do that in public was kinda damming.
And are you really this bothered about having a personal back-and-forth online over something I have or haven't said about our manager a year ago??? Is this genuinely what you’re focusing on? That’s a you problem, not a me problem. Maybe spend a bit less time obsessing over my comments and a bit more time actually watching the football, mate.
I just don't understand someone being so overly supportive of a manager when we are playing awfully and hovering above the relegation zone but can find all these comparison stats and suddenly become a body language expert to a manager that has been here five months.
You literally brought up injuries every other day for Ange as one of your excuses yet here you barely mention the fact that we're first in terms of injuries suffered (I think first still? Def up there.
Who cares about XG. Football managed alright last 150 odd years. End of game I dont think wonder what our XG was.Tell me you don't understand stats without telling me you don't understand stats...
The xG table has proven season after season to be a reasonable proxy for actual points tally, so to call it 'bollox' simply suggests that you don't understand it, and therefore don't accept it. Of course the game is about talent, but underlying stats do provide some clues as to how much talent a player or team has, and how effectively it is being utilised. I'm not saying it should be used in isolation, and I'm most certainly not saying that stats alone should be used to decide which players we sign, I'm simply saying that it is definitely not 'bollox', it is one of a range of useful tools that can and should be used to analyse players and teams (including, of course, the "eye test"). Just because you either don't like it, or don't understand it, or both, doesn't change it's effectivenes, and completing ignoring / rubbishing underlying stats is just as stupid as ignoring the eye test.
.
Maybe I am Admin...Yeah, that's shocking. If trueAdmin , what a gutless bunch of frauds you are.
To be fair he isn't the only one saying this about the players and Frank. They definitely are not going out like they are having a go, focused, motivated and enjoying it. Now it's easy to say well of course they aren' t happy when we lose. But the body language from the players looks really poor, even from kick off.
A football team cannot be as bad as we were yesterday and v Chelsea if the players are trying 100% and believe in what they are being told to do.
Concentrated efforts indeed
I’m looking at the players’ mannerisms and body language — you’re right, I don’t have hard evidence, but come on, football is literally a sport built on speculation. Everyone in this thread does the exact same thing every day. Practically every post is someone guessing, assuming or interpreting what they think is happening.
You watched the match yesterday, right? What did you see that made you think the players are happy or playing for the manager? We find the football boring as fuck so is it so surprising that our players would find it boring as well? The end of the Chelsea match were our captain and Spence dismissed the coach spoke volumes, they're not happy with something about him or the style IMO, to do that in public was kinda damming.
And are you really this bothered about having a personal back-and-forth online over something I have or haven't said about our manager a year ago??? Is this genuinely what you’re focusing on? That’s a you problem, not a me problem. Maybe spend a bit less time obsessing over my comments and a bit more time actually watching the football, mate.
Have to agree with this.
I mean the fans are fed up watching this, it's hardly a stretch to suggest the players feel similar hence the snub from VDV and Spence ( not that I agreed with how they went about it)
But some were determined to dismiss it, storm in a tea cup etc
It clearly was a symptom of something wrong between players and manager.
Nuno funnily enough, we went there and was 3-0 down in 30 mins
Oh yeah, I deleted that from my memory
That was equally as pathetic, and Nuno didn't last long. Worrying signs for Frank and us fans.
The question is why are you having such a personal battle with me over words that was once said, it's generally uber weird energy, who gives a toss man, they're just words.
Also if you're going to go at me please either read my posts and back it up, I'll do the honours for you,God knows why i'm having to prove this to you:
Shock I praise him when he does well and criticise him when he doesn't do well, hold the front page
Been completely balanced in this thread, I've been highly critical of the manager (especially lately) in this thread because he's been doing a shit job, pretty simple.
And about Ange - my Ange support was justified in the end because we won a trophy out of it, I didn't want him sacked based on the fact that we had no-one to fall back on which is one of the reasons why I don't want Frank sacked.
Unless we slip to lower mid table I would still give the full season.
People who understand stats and their use as a means of analyse of players, teams and games care about xG.
By your logic, there would have been no point in inventing cars or planes many years ago, as people travelled places before they were invented. Things can always improve, we can always find new and sometimes better ways of doing things, and that doesn't necessarily mean replacing the old ways - just augmenting them to get an overall better or more accurate result.
Again, just because you clearly don't really understand it, that's not a good reason for it not to be used by those who do.
Funny you say this - Jimmy greaves said he’d make 20 runs, maybe get 4/5 chances out of that, then get 1/2 goals out of that.
xGreaves
All the top coaches now use XG formula to look into trends and spot weaknesses and strengths, like it or not it's a big thing in football now, fans just need to catch up.
XG - is a measurement of how many chances you are creating.
If your XG is very low - there is a very good chance you will have been crap.
It's just a short cut way of saying what we can all see
The thing to consider is we'll probably finish mid table, probably around 8th-12th.
But if it's the same style of football with no signs of attacking play really improving are people going to be happy for Frank to get another season.
For me he gets this season (barring a real horrendous run) but we must see progression in how we attack.
If we're still playing the same way come the end of the season I'd be very wary of giving him another season.
Hopefully we see improvements.
But if it's the same style of football with no signs of attacking play really improving are people going to be happy for Frank to get another season.
For me he gets this season (barring a real horrendous run) but we must see progression in how we attack.
If we're still playing the same way come the end of the season I'd be very wary of giving him another season.
Hopefully we see improvements.
Might not be long,’with the table being as close as it is .