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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
I've been a die hard fan since 1968. If someone disrespected the club I would want to start throwing haymakers or crush them verbally.

Now I am so disheartened I just dont care. I expect to lose. Or for us to embarrass ourselves in some way. I rarely attend and don't even watch the games on TV any more.

I only buy tickets out of some sense of blind loyalty but feel no excitement about attending whatsoever.

Sad state of affairs. Pretty sure I will be in back in the pub after half time next Saturday.
 
wee said:
Can you not see the difference? Davinson Sanchez was booed consistently, over an extended period of time. That was very wrong, counter-productive and cruel. It will have disheartened him.
Vicario was booed for an absolutely ridiculous, avoidable, stupid howler (even I was shouting 'kick it out' - that's how obvious it was), causing us to concede a second goal, in the 6th minute. The booing was focused, loud and very short term - it lasted for about his next 3 or 4 touches. If he's got any gumption, it will have given him the kick up the arse he so badly needs.

The one really bad thing was Frank having a pop at the fans like that. I'm normally one of his biggest supporters, but that was a cuntish thing to say about loyal, emotional people who pay his obscene wages.
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Firstly Sanchez was booed because he made a mistake against Bournemouth, it wasn't over time and it wasn't consistent either.

Secondly the goal was entirely preventable, not only from our keeper but our defenders didn't get back on the line to cover him, basic stuff, singling out one player when our dopey defenders didn't get back on the line is dumb.

Thirdly Sanchez was booed and our fans were called out by Lloris at the time, Vic got booed and our fans are being called out by the manager - guess where the problem lies.

Lastly booing is counter productive, you might think you're helping but you're not, no one wants to be singled out by anyone, ridiculous mentality to have.
 
Notabadsquad said:
Nope, it works both ways.

If the players are doing the business more generally, then the odd mistake is tolerated.

On backing,fcuk sake. Pochettino - one window in particular. Shocking lack of investment but beyond that no chance.

Fans shouldn't boo but they are emotional beings who are simply venting. It's not personal as opposed to consequential.

Nothing complex here.
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Until the fans are top tier, then neither will the club / team. It all works in enasum. We've had chances to back managers and instead made things worse.

Look at the support clubs like United, Liverpool, Celtic, Dortmund give etc.

I do get there's a give and take but asides from the away support, we are a pretty negative bunch.
 
candrews said:
Until the fans are top tier, then neither will the club / team. It all works in enasum. We've had chances to back managers and instead made things worse.

Look at the support clubs like United, Liverpool, Celtic, Dortmund give etc.

I do get there's a give and take but asides from the away support, we are a pretty negative bunch.
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Create a string effective team and it doesn't happen.

But yes.
 
BJK said:
Said this before: Endlessly denigrating the squad to shield Frank is a dangerous game, a slippery slope whose logical conclusion would be to commit to a kind of revisionism regarding last season and the previous manager as well. Do it at your risk.

Focusing specifically on Solanke, Son, Maddison and Kulusevski would be the obvious cop-out since they were mostly available last season unlike this season, but then none of these guys were held in that high of a regard. Son was washed, Maddison was a fairweather player, Kulusevski was a one footed plodder, and Solanke was just running around a bit.

So their absences can't be that bad.

Hint: There's an easy way out of this ostensible conundrum, which is to simply acknowledge that Frank is also not doing a good job. But if you, instead of staying grounded in your support and belief initially, have already chosen him as your hill to die on for God knows why, then you cannot really back out now without losing face.

Some people, and maybe the same people in some cases, went through the exact same thing 12 months ago; and chose to escalate their commitment to the manager at the expense of embarrassing themselves further.
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The 4 players you mention got something like 80 goal contributions between them last season. It would be asinine to say we aren’t missing them.

We can acknowledge the impact of their absence while also criticising Frank for not getting more from what he has. Even lower quality players can at least be organised and disciplined, at the moment we don’t even have that. The team doesn’t have the basic elements required to win a match at the moment, no matter who is playing.
 
Shadydan said:
If we replaced Ange with a Mason or a nobody 12 months ago then we wouldn't have won the Europa League therefore it was perfectly justifiable in keeping him at the club.

Seeing as you don't want to mention any names then I'm gonna assume you want a compelte nobody taking over this team, cool.

No one can sit there with a straight face and tell me they want the manager sacked and then not know the fek is coming in lol, it just doesn't make any sense and of all the things you can do a a footbal club is replacing a manager with a random
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The market is very spooky atm.

Best think is to let Frank see it out (wasting YET ANOTHER season, thanks Daniel) and go hard for an Iraola or Rosenior. Pochettino as the break glass in case of emergency.

The next manager must play progressive football AND develop talent.
 
Nutter-Naylor said:
I've been a die hard fan since 1968. If someone disrespected the club I would want to start throwing haymakers or crush them verbally.

Now I am so disheartened I just dont care. I expect to lose. Or for us to embarrass ourselves in some way. I rarely attend and don't even watch the games on TV any more.

I only buy tickets out of some sense of blind loyalty but feel no excitement about attending whatsoever.

Sad state of affairs. Pretty sure I will be in back in the pub after half time next Saturday.
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I’m just watching football eat itself.

Getting rid of legacy fans, chasing the tourist coin. Greed runs the game.

Not sure how much affordability comes into it any more either. I think it’s more of a malaise for our fanbase.

We see a lot of fans on here who don’t go to that many games. Probably a mixture of can’t, don’t and won’t reasons.

I could go. I don’t really want to so I won’t even buy a membership now. I used to buy 4 or 5!!

I feel no connection as I used to. Feel like a cash machine for the owners rather than a valued supporter. But have done for well over a decade now.

End of the day. You reap what you sow.
 
Harrier said:
Is he wrong though?

It probably wouldn’t have happened at an away game, so what does that say about the fan?

He’s probably also extremely pissed off about it as booing your keeper is hardly conducive to him being settled for the rest of the game. If anything it’s likely to lead to another howler.
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Both can be right and wrong.

Whoever was booing would not have done so if we were leading 3 nil at the time.

Better to say whoever was booing should try and understand it doesn't help the player or the team. No need to start saying the kind of thing you get dimwits on here saying about some fans not being true Spurs fans. It's sh!t.

We all are, bar maybe the odd rogue, but how we support and how we display our feelings is different, obviously.
 
Two Left Feet said:
It certainly does seem like Frank has lost the dressing room. That’s usually a terminal situation.
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Personally, I don’t think he has. It feels far more like the fans have lost the players. When you’ve got Spence, Van de Ven and now Porro in recent weeks choosing not to applaud the crowd after matches, and players like Sarr and Johnson reluctant to celebrate their goals, that tells you everything about where their heads are at, rightly or wrongly. Constant booing and criticism for every bad performance doesn’t build confidence, it wipes it out. You end up with players doing nothing but the safest, most risk free options - slow, sideways passing and everyone trying to avoid being the next one singled out by the crowd. It shows in the numbers too, the confidence simply isn’t there, which matches the xG we’re seeing at Tottenham versus the high xG he was consistently generating at Brentford.
 
StripiestPilot said:
The 4 players you mention got something like 80 goal contributions between them last season. It would be asinine to say we aren’t missing them.
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Are you implying that we're missing their defensive contributions? Because as things currently stand, we're tied with 4th in goals scored with 21.

We would be desperate for them if we were sitting like 15th in that department, but now? I don't see it.

Meanwhile Fbref has us 15th in xGA and our GA is slowly catching up with that. There lies the main culprit of this mini collapse I think: We're no longer getting away with poor defending.
 
TeamSpirit™ said:
The market is very spooky atm.

Best think is to let Frank see it out (wasting YET ANOTHER season, thanks Daniel) and go hard for an Iraola or Rosenior. Pochettino as the break glass in case of emergency.

The next manager must play progressive football AND develop talent.
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I was never in favour of getting Poch back but if want to get the fans back onside and get some sort of connection between fans and players then he would be the guy to do it.
 
Beni said:
I’m genuinely at a loss as to where the real issue sits. We’ve had managers of all types: title-winners, solid operators who’ve done well with smaller clubs, and now Frank. At some point it becomes hard to pin everything on him when three different managers have now felt the need to call out the fans. Whether people like hearing it or not, they’ve all had their reasons.

We have one of the best fanbases in the country when it comes to turning up, paying top prices and travelling everywhere. No doubt about that. But we’ve become poor supporters. There’s a difference between being a fan and being a supporter, and the constant booing shows it. If booing fixed performances, we’d have won the league by now. Psychologically, it only makes things worse. Vicario knew he’d made a mistake yesterday, he didn’t need thousands of people announcing it to him. Do we honestly think the booing is going to make him calmer next time and not make a mistake?

There has to be a link between our home atmosphere and our home form being the second worst in the league. Players look tense at home because they’re waiting for the next wave of boos, so they play safe and tight. It feels like we’ve traded actual support for the Roman Emperor routine, clap what you like, hurl abuse at what you don’t.

People can boo if they want, but let’s not pretend it adds value. It doesn’t. It just makes individuals feel better about the money they’ve spent and the frustration they feel. I’d be fascinated to know whether our home form would improve without fans, like during Covid, because right now it feels like the players dread stepping out at our own ground.

The club need to talk about this properly. Something isn’t right, It is not THE issue but the atmosphere is absolutely part of it.
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That's all fine - but what are the fans supposed to do when the team has lost the game yesterday within 5 minutes?...
 
Erni_COYS said:
Trying to think, who do I like in this squad. I'm Swedish so I guess I have some bias towards Bergvall and Kulusevski. Micky is spectacular on his day. Other than that, I'm at best quite neutral towards them. Compare that to how it felt during the Poch days, it was hard to pick a favourite player because I loved all of them.
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Totally agree. I keep seeing 'we've got a top 6 squad', but have we really? I wonder how far down the current league table you'd have to go before a manager would look at our typical starting 11 and think that they'd prefer 6 of ours over 6 of their own.

Not sure we've aligned our expectations/perceptions with reality yet.
 
WillWilliams said:
I’m just watching football eat itself.

Getting rid of legacy fans, chasing the tourist coin. Greed runs the game.

Not sure how much affordability comes into it any more either. I think it’s more of a malaise for our fanbase.

We see a lot of fans on here who don’t go to that many games. Probably a mixture of can’t, don’t and won’t reasons.

I could go. I don’t really want to so I won’t even buy a membership now. I used to buy 4 or 5!!

I feel no connection as I used to. Feel like a cash machine for the owners rather than a valued supporter. But have done for well over a decade now.

End of the day. You reap what you sow.
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I was offered a ticket yesterday for free, I'd have bitten their hand off in the mid 80's for that, or under prime Harry & Poch. Not so these days. I normally watch games on a stream mostly but even last night I just couldn't be arsed as I felt our home performances have been turgid at best. Tete hadn't scored for two years! Vicario's mistake was terrible and Frank looks like a rabbit in the head lights.
 
If I was a player getting booed week in week out for my dogshit performances it would be a rocket up my arse to prove them wrong and try my utmost. Instead we've got weak crybaby players who go into their shell.

We've been shit at home now for god knows how long, fans paying the highest ticket prices in the league for the worst home performances in the league, every one in football talks about how its a results based business and then yet can't understand how that result then effects the fans. Either give us results or fuck off. Club is rotten from the top to the bottom, owners, manager, players are cunts which then makes the fans act like cunts. Shit runs downhill.
 
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