• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Player Pedro Porro

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Of course. I've not coached so don't know what goes into it and I'm not saying they're not being coached, but it just doesn't look like its had much of an impact.

If we take the first goal (and those PSG ones), shouldn't players know you have to close them down asap? It didn't seem that way.

From Vic's POV, shouldn't he know that if he's nowhere near where he should be, to eliminate the danger in the safest and easiest way (kick it to row Z if he has to).

From Porro's POV (or even Danso), shouldn't they know they need to cover the goal if they see their keeper way out on the field.

These just seem like elementary stuff that they should all know.
Well they should know that of course, and they do know that. But when you're struggling, pressure and confidence are hugely important to rational thinking. Just look at what Ange was able to achieve during his first couple of months, the players were rock bottom in terms of confidence after being told quite literally they were shit via Conte. Along comes Ange, whose entire gimmick seems to be confidence over coaching, and for a short while we looked like a capable functioning unit. I have no doubt that Frank is a decent coach. He may even be a great one. But we need someone who can inspire first and foremost, because as a club we have unique expectations.

When their confidence has dropped I'm not surprised they look incapable of what should be considered elementary actions
 
This. Blokes a fool. Looks genuinely short of cognitive power. Think him and Romero should go.
Spoke to one of my Spanish buds today. Valencia fan but obviously follows la Roja, as well as the PL cause he lives in the UK over 8 months a year. Said to me he & most of his fellow countrymen think exactly the same of Porro, that he's a friggin helmet. Sounds just as stupid in Spanish as he does in English.

Get rid.
 
I do.

If you want to cuddle them crack on.

If someone is always being a cunt you have to call them a cunt eventually.

That's life.
I don’t see it that way at all. If you’re constantly being torn into and ridiculed in any job, most people don’t suddenly rise to heroic standards, they shut down. You try at first, you put the effort in to prove people wrong, you get a bit of breathing space, then the moment you slip again it all comes back on top. It’s the same in any relationship as well. If someone is hammered for every minor mistake, they don’t magically become better, they fall out of love with it or retreat into themselves until they walk away. Calling that “life” doesn’t change the fact that constant hostility rarely gets the best out of anyone. If only life and psychology was that simple to not have emotions.
 
Well they should know that of course, and they do know that. But when you're struggling, pressure and confidence are hugely important to rational thinking. Just look at what Ange was able to achieve during his first couple of months, the players were rock bottom in terms of confidence after being told quite literally they were shit via Conte. Along comes Ange, whose entire gimmick seems to be confidence over coaching, and for a short while we looked like a capable functioning unit. I have no doubt that Frank is a decent coach. He may even be a great one. But we need someone who can inspire first and foremost, because as a club we have unique expectations.

When their confidence has dropped I'm not surprised they look incapable of what should be considered elementary actions
Under pressure confidence etc shouldnt mean you cant run out and block a shot. Thats work and want and its under the players control
 
He can fuck off. Acting like a big time Charlie yet playing like a cunt. Standing over the set pieces like he's juninho yet taking them like Kane. His redeeming quality at right back was the fact he's very good on the ball and he's not even doing that now. Take your whingy attitude and fuck off back to Sporting.
 
I don’t like the fans getting called out, given the small fortune they shell out in watching this dross, but I can also understand why Frank and Porro stood up for Vicario. But they had better improve and start showing results, or this “backing up” will ring hollow.
Porro didnt stand up for vic in my opinion. He got thick with a young player who decided to applaud the fans. Why not let him applaud. His decision.
Would he have shouted at paulinho say for doing it?? Nope.
Seems like vic he attacks the younger players
 
Porro didnt stand up for vic in my opinion. He got thick with a young player who decided to applaud the fans. Why not let him applaud. His decision.
Would he have shouted at paulinho say for doing it?? Nope.
Seems like vic he attacks the younger players
Yes, he picked a soft target, the younger player. I don’t like that.

So what if Bergvall wanted to applaud the fans let him. Porro’s not his dad.
 
Don't really want to see Porro in our shirt again now to be honest. While I don't agree with Vicario getting booed but as one of the senior players to criticise a young player for clapping the fans is pretty disgusting.
Someone needs to remind him where the outrageous money he earns comes from. His defending is dog shit anyway and his attacking play overrated.
Sell him back to Spain or Portugal as there won't be any takers in the premier League
 
I don’t see it that way at all. If you’re constantly being torn into and ridiculed in any job, most people don’t suddenly rise to heroic standards, they shut down. You try at first, you put the effort in to prove people wrong, you get a bit of breathing space, then the moment you slip again it all comes back on top. It’s the same in any relationship as well. If someone is hammered for every minor mistake, they don’t magically become better, they fall out of love with it or retreat into themselves until they walk away. Calling that “life” doesn’t change the fact that constant hostility rarely gets the best out of anyone. If only life and psychology was that simple to not have emotions.

Maybe in your world that is all true.

Nobody has torn into these players or hammered them BTW.

In my world if your work is shit you are soon jogged on.

That was my point.

It's about standards.

We have been too tolerent of Levy's methods, his recruitment, his wage structure and his fucking ticket prices.

Porro is a poor defender and Vicario is a poor goalkeeper.

Both error prone, both see themselves on some sort of pedestal.

What is currently on display is a poor manager, managing mostly poor players, in among some average players, to mediocre and poor results and performances.

The people who are booing have been paying top dollar to watch this charade for 6 consecutive seasons now.

There is nothing happening now that should have probably happened 4 years ago and would definitely have happened at many other top clubs a long time ago.
 
Maybe in your world that is all true.

Nobody has torn into these players or hammered them BTW.

In my world if your work is shit you are soon jogged on.

That was my point.

It's about standards.

We have been too tolerent of Levy's methods, his recruitment, his wage structure and his fucking ticket prices.

Porro is a poor defender and Vicario is a poor goalkeeper.

Both error prone, both see themselves on some sort of pedestal.

What is currently on display is a poor manager, managing mostly poor players, in among some average players, to mediocre and poor results and performances.

The people who are booing have been paying top dollar to watch this charade for 6 consecutive seasons now.

There is nothing happening now that should have probably happened 4 years ago and would definitely have happened at many other top clubs a long time ago.
In anyone’s world this stuff doesn’t actually work, it just gives the person doing the shouting a quick release and nothing more. It doesn’t lift standards, it doesn’t improve performances and it certainly doesn’t make a player suddenly sharper or more confident. It only benefits you, because it lets you vent while everyone else carries the weight of it. If constant public hammering truly fixed things, every struggling club would be flying. Instead you end up with players retreating into themselves, doing the bare minimum and playing not to make a mistake rather than to win. That isn’t raising standards, it’s just feeding frustration.
 
In anyone’s world this stuff doesn’t actually work, it just gives the person doing the shouting a quick release and nothing more. It doesn’t lift standards, it doesn’t improve performances and it certainly doesn’t make a player suddenly sharper or more confident. It only benefits you, because it lets you vent while everyone else carries the weight of it. If constant public hammering truly fixed things, every struggling club would be flying. Instead you end up with players retreating into themselves, doing the bare minimum and playing not to make a mistake rather than to win. That isn’t raising standards, it’s just feeding frustration.
That is your take and I do find it interesting.

However; football crowds have always been cruel to footballers and your reference to psychology is also very interesting.

Here is a man ,deserving of the utmost respect, who faced up to far worse than what Vicario had to deal with yesterday, for nothing to do with his football ability.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVHXaezjGog

This is not evidence that overt vocal abuse of a player will bring out the best in him but what it does put into perspective is how pretentious it is for players like Vicario and Porro to cast themselves as victims of some kind of injustice.

It's actually embarrassing how far up their own aresholes these people are.

They lost 22 league games last season and have managed 3 wins at home, out of 21, in a calender year.

They are actually really fucking shit at their job and should be apologising to the supporters after every game.

They are deserving of criticism.

They are especially deserving of criticism when they give away shit goals, inside the first 5 minutes of a game, in such an unprofessional manner.

The anger of the supporters booing Vicario is actually righteous.

The reaction from these players to that criticism actually digs out their own weakness and lack of understanding.

These millionaire footballers are actually a fucking disgrace.

Cyrille Regis, and many other professional footballers, have had to deal with genuine injustice without the benefits and rewards that many modern players now take for granted.

Perhaps we need to sing to them;

"We are not;
We are not
We are not as shit as you"

at the next home game when they deliver up more of their garbage football.
 
3 home wins in our last 21 games. Error after error, half hearted performance after half hearted performance, no brains, no guile, no real quality. Limping around since we lost Dembele if truth be told.

Waited a year to replace Kane, didn't replace Son this summer so probably another year to wait for a key replacement.

CBs don't use their basics to cover the goal line, goalkeeper after making massive mistake jogs back to the goal line only to see the ball float over his head. 91st minute and needing a WIN, not just a draw and one player leaves a throw in to another who leaves it to another whereby over half a minute wasted and we have to just stand by and be called not real supporters because WE are the ones finally taking action.

More apologies than points gained at home in a calendar year probably with the 2nd highest season ticket prices in the land?

These players stink, I'd move as many on as possible bar maybe 3 or 4 and rip the guts out and start again. All because Levy never really risked it. Lessons to be learnt in life that sadly our club never seem to do.

But yeah it's the fans not being up for watching dogshit display after dogshit display for nearly a 3/4s of a decade now that's the issue.

This club only truly begins to get better when everyone of these players and those on the board can look themselves in the mirror and finally understand what the real issue is. They either ain't good enough or don't try hard enough. The denial they are all in is alarming.

Well done Daniel for thinking Plan B won't end up making you second rate.
 
I can forgive mistakes. I cannot forgive shouting at Bergvall for clapping the fans after yet another nightmare home performance.

Make Bergvall captain ASAP, and send Porro off to the continent somewhere.
 
That is your take and I do find it interesting.

However; football crowds have always been cruel to footballers and your reference to psychology is also very interesting.

Here is a man ,deserving of the utmost respect, who faced up to far worse than what Vicario had to deal with yesterday, for nothing to do with his football ability.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVHXaezjGog

This is not evidence that overt vocal abuse of a player will bring out the best in him but what it does put into perspective is how pretentious it is for players like Vicario and Porro to cast themselves as victims of some kind of injustice.

It's actually embarrassing how far up their own aresholes these people are.

They lost 22 league games last season and have managed 3 wins at home, out of 21, in a calender year.

They are actually really fucking shit at their job and should be apologising to the supporters after every game.

They are deserving of criticism.

They are especially deserving of criticism when they give away shit goals, inside the first 5 minutes of a game, in such an unprofessional manner.

The anger of the supporters booing Vicario is actually righteous.

The reaction from these players to that criticism actually digs out their own weakness and lack of understanding.

These millionaire footballers are actually a fucking disgrace.

Cyrille Regis, and many other professional footballers, have had to deal with genuine injustice without the benefits and rewards that many modern players now take for granted.

Perhaps we need to sing to them;

"We are not;
We are not
We are not as shit as you"

at the next home game when they deliver up more of their garbage football.

I get what you’re saying, but people handle things differently. What one person shrugs off, another spirals from, and pretending everyone has the same mental armour just because they’re well paid isn’t how real life works. I don’t think any of them are casting themselves as victims. That’s your take, based on the idea that high wages mean they should absorb absolutely anything that’s thrown their way. That’s entitlement in itself. Paying for a ticket doesn’t give anyone a free pass to unload whatever they like, any more than it would in any other job.

They apologise plenty, we just tend not to accept it and instead turn into experts on body language and tone. Some of them aren’t good enough, sure, but that’s a recruitment issue. It’s not their fault they’re here, being picked, and sent out to play. Critique them all you like, I’ve no issue with that, I just don’t think booing them during a match or every time they touch the ball does anything other than make the person doing it feel better. It’s not about righteousness, it’s just common sense if we’re all supposed to be pulling in the same direction for ninety minutes.

Yes, players in the past dealt with horrific abuse, and some handled it with incredible strength. Others didn’t, and the outcomes for people like Fashanu and Speed show exactly why mental resilience isn’t uniform. None of that means modern players are superhuman or that fans have licence to behave however they like. You can call it pretentious if you want, but for me it’s just basic logic: turning on your own mid-game doesn’t help them, doesn’t help the team, and doesn’t change results. If anything, it pushes people into their shell.

Anyway, this has been done to death. We’re clearly not going to agree, and that’s fine. I’m not angry about the booing, I just don’t think it works and nothing you’ve said convinces me otherwise.
 
I don’t think any of them are casting themselves as victims. That’s your take, based on the idea that high wages mean they should absorb absolutely anything that’s thrown their way.
It's not "my take".

It is also nothing to do with the wages they earn. I referenced that to juxtapose Porro and Vicario's current situation against the situation faced by players like Cyrille Regis, in the 1970's, on far less remuneration.

My take on Vicario and Porro portraying themselves as victims is based on reports currently leaking out of the Spurs camp.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uYZy1tEBxY
 
Back
Top