The likes of Zidane and Ronaldinho would be called average by today’s fan due to not scoring all that often. Hate this Americanization of the sport and its obsession with stats and numbers
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Player Archie Gray
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the above lot were shit, huddlestone had great technique, but he was far too immobile.
whos overhyping gray? the club paid 40m for him, there should be expectation on him to become a very good midfielder, based on what hes shown so far, it looks promising.
do you think rodri is overhyped too? he doesnt do much does he, just loads of pointless passing? doesnt score many or get many assists, never even seen him do a step over...surely loadssss of players could do what he does, nothing special is it?
its like the whole childish messi v ronaldo debate, one literally changed his game to purely score goals and stat pad, the other just played his game naturally, and theres people out there that actually debate whos better and use them stats as an argument hahah.
football is a very nuanced game, some see it and some are just completely oblivious and need a stat sheet to form an opinion. the real genuine quality players have a different look to them with the way the ball behaves, touch and the weight of pass, it has a crispness to it. the sport is infested with dumb athletes who dont have that relationship with the ball.
Nowadays - Carrick would start over both. DM is such an important position and he was far more disliked and suited to intl tournaments than those headless chickens
It was around Modric’s time with us that I became aware of “second assists”. The person who assisted the assister. Sure it’s just stats arguing, but I think on the whole it’s intention was to illustrate the underlying importance of some players. Modric and Dembele for us I believe were good with this.
I don't wanna be wise after the event, because I said it before... But it's SO clear and obvious Archie Gray is gonna be a phenomenal Central Midfielder....
He was giving HT Team Talks at Leeds when he was 16FFS!
....This kid HAS what it takes .
...and like with Bergwall, Mikey Moore, Williams-Barnett (they so obviously 'have it's) we're just gonna have to be patient, and let them grow and flourish....
I can't gugarantee anything, but I get the feeling we have 7 or 8 young players who are gonna form the spine of a VERY successful Tottenham team for years to come!
1882: 08/12/25 i(f you need to keep the receipt!)
He was giving HT Team Talks at Leeds when he was 16FFS!
....This kid HAS what it takes .
...and like with Bergwall, Mikey Moore, Williams-Barnett (they so obviously 'have it's) we're just gonna have to be patient, and let them grow and flourish....
I can't gugarantee anything, but I get the feeling we have 7 or 8 young players who are gonna form the spine of a VERY successful Tottenham team for years to come!
1882: 08/12/25 i(f you need to keep the receipt!)
Called a key pass today and is typically accounted for in stats.
Wasn't back then, though.
I like that there's an Xa stat today too. You could have a player putting a world class ball into the box only for some donkey to miss. Historically the assister also suffers a negative stat.
Ronaldinho wasn't far off a goal every other game at Barcelona.
Over-analysis is the curse of the mind.
Let's see how Gray develops over the season but there are some obvious considerations.
Frank thinks he is good enough despite his age, or he would be out on loan. I caution that a little with the example of Tel, more so than Odobert.
The midfield is arguably the most technical position in the pitch, demanding more thought and measure than others.
Very, very few young midfielders play consistently well or at all in the PL, so God forbid perspective. That said we aren't an experiment.
Of Gray, however, and like all our players, the demand must be to deliver performances of quality over the duration.
Let's see how Gray develops over the season but there are some obvious considerations.
Frank thinks he is good enough despite his age, or he would be out on loan. I caution that a little with the example of Tel, more so than Odobert.
The midfield is arguably the most technical position in the pitch, demanding more thought and measure than others.
Very, very few young midfielders play consistently well or at all in the PL, so God forbid perspective. That said we aren't an experiment.
Of Gray, however, and like all our players, the demand must be to deliver performances of quality over the duration.
Carrick was a great player. Not quick. But read the game brilliantly. Broke up play and was an elite passer of the ball.
Really hope you are right. And they certainly are good enough to keep /loan and ensure they are getting lots of game time
United still haven’t replaced him after over a decade or so
Gray is overhyped?
He’s barely even talked about. He had a nice performance on Saturday and looks like it’s possible he can develop into a good midfielder. No one is saying he is modric level.
He’s barely even talked about. He had a nice performance on Saturday and looks like it’s possible he can develop into a good midfielder. No one is saying he is modric level.
Overhyped is the wrong word. A lot on here understandably want him to get lots of minutes. Last season is a bit hard to judge as playing out of position, and the general shitshow. He didn't IMO do all that well last season. He was ok overall, at times good, at times not. But he wasn't alone tbf. Only really Bergvall stood out of the youngsters.
Gray looked good against Brentford tho. We paid top dollar for him. Compare with Alex Scott. Not saying one is better, just that one is 4x the price of the other. Hopefully he just ignores that and plays.
You wonder what the opinion of Bergvall would be like right now had he been chucked in a CB or fullback instead last season.
Was gonna say Carrick too...
I think they used to call it "unspectacular, but effective" because they weren't on the end of, or directly supplied the goals...
But starting the move is vital to its' progress... So I'd say those types of player were AS important ... If not so much in the limelight!
....and I bet every single ONE of those goals would've been a ridiculously LOW xG due to their sheer difficulty to score!
But that wouldn't have mattered to today's stat-at-all-cost crazy game!! He wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes !
Carrick was part Palhinha and part Pirlo. The no6 bit he didn't have was elite ball carrying - think Dembele. Bloody good tho.
View: https://youtu.be/1tV5teILLro?si=BR6SmXfpI2z7fpTl
A good few of these goals would have had a high Xg as he was in the box, between the posts.
How he got there isn't a factor AFAIK. It's purely a stat based on how many times in history a player has scored a similar shot from a similar place.
Then there's the bangers. We need more of this back in 2026.
Not to turn to thread to Carrick discussion. Just one last point.
Both Lampard and Gerrard needed Carrick alongside either of them with England. But both together was not a good fit.