100% some of the best midfielders of all time dont have great stats when it comes to goals and assists, the very best in fact. modric, iniesta and xavi dont have great stats when it comes to goals and assists, but they controlled the games, made their teams dominant.
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Player Archie Gray
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after a rewatch i'd say he had a very tidy game though he wasn't ever under any real pressure. didn't seem to make any mistakes. positioning was good with his partner whether bentancur or pal. definitely is a steady hand who looks like he belongs and i'd give him a run of games and see how he does as we've invested quite a bit in him.
Bit like Foden. Never played well for England
felt like yesterday was his real coming into the team moment. he plays well above his years, very intelligent footballer, never mind the fact hes still only a kid. hes not the most athletic, but what a ball playing midfielder he is, short spaces that require sharp thinking and good technique, thats what hes all about. willing to throw himself into challenges too and get stuck in.
come back to this in a year or two
It's whether he has a ceiling that will take him to a different level. I would say he probably has more potential to unlock but he needs game time.
Watched a replay of yesterday’s game and he was very, very good although he probably won’t get many easier days.
32 successful passes from 34 todaybus-conductor
Meh. Better than 6 though I guess.
Good points. Gray looks more athletic thank Carrick.
I think Carrick was unlucky to get caught in the Gerrard/Lampard era. England manager did not have the YKW to drop either of them. It cost England I think.
Across between Howells and Samways
He’s 19. Where are the other 19 year olds in the prem? There aren’t many.
Silly to think he’s a finished product.
My mate from Leeds told me we was getting a special player in Archie, I think he was right - apparently though his younger brother is the better prospect!
Yes , great points .
Other than Xavi, Iniesta and Modric were a lot better on the ball than Gray is.
And we have had a hole slew of midfielders that did not get goals and assists who were bigged up : Carrol, Mason, Huddlestone, Bentalob, Winks Skipp
Oh , and Xavi, Iniesta amd Modric did get goals assists.
Assists - Goals
Xavi 216 - 112
Iniesta 191 - 102
Modric 170 - 117
Do you also not rate Wharton who hasn't scored in 2 seasons?
xavi, iniesta and modric were better on the ball than 19 year old gray? some statement that!
their goals and assist stats are not considered good for midfielders, the point is, theres far more to the game than who gets the goals and assists, controlling the midfield is the most important part of the game.
Yeah context is key. Those guys all had like 1000+ career appearances. When you average it out they're getting like 3-4 goals and 7-8 assists per season which are certainly above average numbers for CMs but not crazy. And these are world class players playing in some of the best club/international sides ever, which naturally helps (wonder how many assists were side-passes to Messi/Ronaldo...).
I think in general you want your CMs to be able to chip in with a few goals and assists - it can be a bit of a problem if neither contribute at all - but it's not the main priority.
Most would say Dembele is our best CM over the past 10-15 years and his goal/assist numbers were terrible.
Manages to not shit the bed against a shit team in rare start, comparisons to Modric, Xavi and Iniesta begin.
Why are we always trying to make out every young player that has a decent game is something special? Gray, Sarr, Bergvall, Tel, Odobert all will have the odd good game and then our fanbase start wetting themselves.
Why can’t we just accept the greater likelihood is they’ll go on to be average players somewhere. And probably not here for most of them.
It’s bizarre behaviour.
Why can’t we just accept the greater likelihood is they’ll go on to be average players somewhere. And probably not here for most of them.
It’s bizarre behaviour.
Bergvall does look to have something.
There is not much evidence Gray will be special
You are repeating exactly what was said about Carrol , Winks, Mason, Bentalob, Huddelstone and Skipp.
All uniquely rated by Spurs fans.
None did anything particularly special with the ball - all ended up in the Championship.
I am not saying Gray is as mediocre as they were - but he is as unjustifiable overhyped at this stage.
And the thing about goals and assists is they are tangible evidence
Saying a player who does nothing special with the ball is controlling the game - is unfalsifiable.
I suspect every club's fans are the same - there are probably loads of young Chelsea, United and Woolwich players we're barely aware of or remember that their fans convinced themselves would be the next big thing. Football fans naturally want to believe that the next talented young kid could be the guy. If you don't have at least some hope as a football fan, especially supporting a club like Spurs, I do kinda think 'what's the point'.
I'd say the difference with Gray is that, unlike all the others you listed, I saw him boss Chelsea for Leeds when he was barely 18 and instantly thought 'we should sign that guy'. He looked absolutely brilliant that day, and tbh I'm not sure he's ever played with that level of confidence and freedom at Spurs. But I think the ability is there if we can get it out of him.
Anyway, time will tell. And we'll all twat back and forth in this thread in the meantime.