Ange is a good example of the limits of affiliative leadership and up and at em type rousing charisma IMO. At some point (below PL level) managers actually have to be very good technically also.
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Manager Antonio Conte
- Thread starter Fattynomates
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It does go wrong quickly but one thing he does is get results and win very quickly initially. So the commonly perceived wisdom of managers needing time doesn’t apply with this type of manager. In fact the last thing he needs is more time.
That’s interesting though.
Agreed. I think Ange probably was very good technically when he first made his name. He got on board the Pep wagon much earlier than most European managers did and was doing some pretty interesting, progressive stuff in Australia and Japan by the sounds of it. I remember watching his Aussie side at the world cup and, while they lost, they were playing football at a far higher level than you'd expect from a bunch of cloggers.
I think his issue was thinking his tried and true methods would upscale to the PL and he wouldn't need to continually adapt and grow. I think he became set in his ways as his methods had worked for him everywhere else. He was a bit arrogant/complacent and got found out about 2/3rds of the way through his first season. I think his charisma helped get us over the line in Europa but he's a busted flush at this level now.
Yeah, I agree. And I didn't mean to say Ange didn't have a clue technically, just that it was obviously his key weakness when he entered the big boys league.
Yeah he's a pretty unique case. You basically gotta bite your tongue, sign him whatever random players he demands and he'll almost certainly win you something within a year or two - especially if he doesn't have European football to deal with.
I'd love to see an alternate timeline where we genuinely backed him and got him all the guys he wanted. In reality, we got him Perisic but I think Rich, Biss, Lenglet and, of course, Spence, were somewhat foisted on him, or compromises at best.
We would've probably fucked ourselves completely long term with a bunch of awkward signings, but given we were in the title race that season until about January, despite playing pretty shite, I think we might've genuinely had a go at the league if he'd had the guys he wanted.
He as a typical Italian probably hated the fact that we were especially weak at the back at that time. Those 40 goals conceded in 28 league games in his second season here sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of his career where he was regularly getting his teams to concede less than that over the course of 38 games.
Despite all his efforts to make games as big of slugfests as possible, we were still on pace for a 54 goal conceded season.We had the attacking firepower in the form of Kane,Son and a few others to outscore teams with a bunch of 4-3s and 3-2s but in his mind, conceding that many goals was still a cardinal sin. He was the polar opposite of someone like Ange in this regard, who was overjoyed with these scorelines. And after we had one of those entertaining for neutrals against Southampton, he flipped.
He would've been happier with the current squad I think: It's also quite lopsided, but in the direction that he would prefer in the attacking v defending axis.
Despite all his efforts to make games as big of slugfests as possible, we were still on pace for a 54 goal conceded season.We had the attacking firepower in the form of Kane,Son and a few others to outscore teams with a bunch of 4-3s and 3-2s but in his mind, conceding that many goals was still a cardinal sin. He was the polar opposite of someone like Ange in this regard, who was overjoyed with these scorelines. And after we had one of those entertaining for neutrals against Southampton, he flipped.
He would've been happier with the current squad I think: It's also quite lopsided, but in the direction that he would prefer in the attacking v defending axis.
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Agreed. Second half of first season the Conte team Spurs had was as good as any team in the league. Not to watch. But we were a hell of a hard team to play. Just checked ... last 14 league matches ... W10, D2, L2
A stat that might surprise some people is AVB has the third highest win rate out of all our managers 55.00%.
*Ahead of him, in second place is Arthur Turner in the 1940s with 55.10%
*And top of the class was Frank Brettell in the 1890s with a whopping 65.38%.
*I'm too young to remember those two, I guess
Bazali
or
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might have attended some of the matches.
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A stat that might surprise some people is AVB has the third highest win rate out of all our manager 55.00%.
*Ahead of him, in second place is Arthur Turner in the 1940s with 55.10%
*And top of the class was Frank Brettell in the 1890s with a whopping 65.38%.
*I'm too young to remember those two, I guess
No I’m too young but
www
will be nailed on!!“During the war…..”
Frank was our first manager and he's our current manager too. We are familyA stat that might surprise some people is AVB has the third highest win rate out of all our manager 55.00%.
*Ahead of him, in second place is Arthur Turner in the 1940s with 55.10%
*And top of the class was Frank Brettell in the 1890s with a whopping 65.38%.
*I'm too young to remember those two, I guess
That is nearly 2 years old now.
Thought I'd highlight some bits that people don't talk about and twist the opposite of what Conte said, though
Mate,
What is any manager's job?
In my opinion it is to create the framework of play, to strengthen the collective mind, and to rise to the challenge. The challenge for the manager and the players.
Conte had his reasons for leaving but he also was paid to provide the edge.
Let's not talk of players before we talk of managers.
The only thing I will say is that if managers identify bad eggs and want to move them on and are prevented from doing so to the point where they need to keep playing them,that's maybe a bit different.
But sorry no. Look at Arteta. He got rid of certain players. And why? Bad influences who sought to undermine him and bad influences on the squad. I praise him for that.
I don't particularly know what you're going on about there.
I posted parts where he said the club were incredibly supportive of him when he was grieving and did the right thing by him, and his 'rant' that is often labelled as 'calling Levy out' is actually more supportive of him in how it is worded there
Apologies squire.
I do however think that some posters will reference him saying it's the players and the culture of the club.
My point is that much of it is driven by the manager, certainly in terms of the football culture.
The culture of any business is always driven from the top. If your senior management have the drive and desire to be the very best, that filters down, and those who don't share the same ethos are binned off.
Unfortunately, for all their drive and desire to put us up there as one of the biggest clubs on Earth, from a financial perspective, that desire wasn't transferred to what we do on the pitch. The talk was talked, but they didn't walk the walk, and you don't bring in middle management to change that if you're not going to display the required hunger and desire.
We can only hope that the change at the top is now going to address this. We're already stable, we have the platform, now we'll see if the will is there.
United were successful, some say despite the Glazers.
I don't agree.
Leicester under Ranieri? It's just a myth that suits a narrative.
"Some say..."
Some say the Earth is flat...
Their culture has been on the decline for over a decade now, no matter who they've brought in to manage the team. Now they have Ratcliffe eroding it further, putting money ahead of people.
You don't employ a manager to instill a culture into a club, you bring on in to align with and promote your own.
Okay mate.
Slightly differing views.
Apologies again on the initial and off-point response.
Well yes and toxic culture seems to always find Conte, which is a coincidence.
He has manager ADHD and gets bored in the second season and will torch the club around him like Nero.
The only thing I wanted to revisit was the revolutionism that Conte attacked the entire club and call out Levy, wasn't backed etc. I think club have, on the whole, always been very good towards managers and ex-players, and both Ange and Conte were given an extremely long amount of rope