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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?


  • Total voters
    623
Hmm, I have nothing to say. Your arguments have so many assumptions when many facts are out there that when crossed referenced will make your points invalid.

But I don't have time for this lol. He's gone and I know nothing will change people's perception of him anyways.

Which is fine, but people are criticising the current manager in a way that rewrites history. You can look back through every manager, even to Poch's reign, and see signs of defeatism, or "reality", not understanding how the fans think etc. It wasn't remotely as big as it is now. Previous manager actively criticised fans, argued with them, cupped his ear to them, and that's seemingly no where near as antagonising as a passive description of the current state of the top 4

I don't know why it's being wheeled out as confirmation bias now. People were jumping on him saying "top, top" early on, as if it really matters. You'll have people saying stuff like "he should be sacked because he won't give a timeline on Solanke" and other really odd things like that.

People used to say that Levy used to shield himself behind the managers, but to me it looks like Levy himself was the criticism shield. People are pinning everything on the way Frank talks, looks, and the nuances of his adjectives because there's no clear idea of who exactly is running the club and making decisions
 
I'm not even convinced Poch is the type of coach that can manage a ready made team. Or a team full of ready made players.
His whole "thing" is getting the inexperienced kids to buy into his ethos.
100%

He seems like one of those where you really need to buy into his system and his management, and I feel like what did him in here eventually, at PSG, and at Chelsea, was having senior players who just don't really care for that.
 
That said, if we start losing while playing like this - then itll definitely get even more sour very fast
I think the board keep him regardless, he is currently the sole blame for our poor results, ENIC are getting a free pass.....

I think they keep him in place to direct the anger of the fans away from them, its like we are already a week into the window and the owner bit of business we have done is selling last seasons top scorer, yet all the protests have now stopped as Levy has been forced out, its a smart bit of business really, gives the fans someone to blame everything on and detracts from the parasites really running the club!
 
100%

He seems like one of those where you really need to buy into his system and his management, and I feel like what did him in here eventually, at PSG, and at Chelsea, was having senior players who just don't really care for that.

Poch had turned things round at Chavs. Most Chav fans I know were angry he was replaced by Maresca.

As for PSG - Poch was lumbered with the untouchables up front. As was Enrique at first. Once he got rid of them - they flourished.
 
Or intelligent recruitment.
Jan, Lloris, Toby, Rose, Walker, Dembele, Dele, Eriksen weren't mega money. Kane was a kid. Pretty sure at that time the most expensive one of the lot was probably Son ?
Not the most we'd paid, but the most expensive player playing in the starting 11 most weeks.
Chances of that happening again are slim. Intelligent recruitment is kind of a mirage - generally the best players cost the most. I could have scouted pretty much every player city have bought recently using FC 25 as an example. The issues we have (besides finding the players) with buy low, high ceiling type players is we don’t offer enough game time, we have an expectation that players hit ground running and other issues like getting them working visas etc. Moneyball is an option for teams lower in the league but I don’t think is a viable one for us tbh. I’m pretty sceptical on scouting as a discipline also, feels like smoke and mirrors more often than not. I watched Brennan for 5 games and knew a player that can’t dribble, cant pass, can’t get the ball with his back to goal and doesn’t drive forward with the ball, was never going to cut in on the wing, what the fuck were our scouts thinking? Now admittedly he may have been an Ange decision but in my view stopping managers from buying shit players is the whole point of a technical director. On the flip side, when other teams find a gem, we all go ‘why didn’t we buy him’ but when you dig into it, it’s usually - they bought 100 shit players and got one gem or the player made a choice to go there with a master plan (haaland with Dortmund) or the team just got fucking lucky (think some of those players in the title winning Leicester team). Besides the teams who produce great youth talent, I’m struggling to think of a team that consistently picks great undervalued or cheap prospects or if the team does, I don’t think we could re-create it (Ajax, Porto etc) for the reasons listed above (game time, visas etc).
 
Im quite happy with a 2 tier approach

I like the Bergvall, Vuskovic, Tel type buys of young, potential players

Although it means we need a manager (and system) that allows for these players to get integrated as well

But I agree, we need to improve our first team buying

I think we need to forget all that shit.

Only buy players that are good enough.

Buy the best we can get.

3 in each window; for this window and the next 3 windows.

3 in; 3 out. Every window.

If the young players we have are good enough to come through then great.

If not sell them.

Spurs should aim to be the best and keep aiming high until we get it right.

Jam tomorrow has failed for 25 years.

The man responsible for jam tommorrow has been shitcanned.

Spurs now need to shitcan his methods forever and behave like the big club the trophy parade showed the world we are.

We will get real momentum if we change the M.O.

It's the only strategy that will reverse the damage done to the club's identity and the belief of the supporters.

If ENIC cannot deliver that then ENIC must be run out of N17 along with Levy.
 
I think the board keep him regardless, he is currently the sole blame for our poor results, ENIC are getting a free pass.....

I think they keep him in place to direct the anger of the fans away from them, its like we are already a week into the window and the owner bit of business we have done is selling last seasons top scorer, yet all the protests have now stopped as Levy has been forced out, its a smart bit of business really, gives the fans someone to blame everything on and detracts from the parasites really running the club!

Not sure I agree

ENIC made statements when binning Levy off

Vinai was brought in as a good communicator - and has already given interviews to set the precedent

Im not sure they can hide, theyve set it up so questions can and will be asked...

My hope is, even if its slow, theyre set things up behind the scenes for major change. New DoF, new coach, proper footballing structure all being sorted. Might cost us this season, but thats the basket all my eggs are in right now...
 
100%

He seems like one of those where you really need to buy into his system and his management, and I feel like what did him in here eventually, at PSG, and at Chelsea, was having senior players who just don't really care for that.
You could see that once our once-young players became household names, the intensity dropped off. They could choose any club in the world, or stay at Spurs and sprint around for 90 minutes solid. Walker ditched. Kane slowed down. Dele and Erikson broke. Dembele's body gave up. Rose fell off a cliff. Etc, etc.
He (Poch) needs constant squad recycling to stay at a level. The sort of recycling City can do at will, but we never will.
Chances of that happening again are slim. Intelligent recruitment is kind of a mirage - generally the best players cost the most. I could have scouted pretty much every player city have bought recently using FC 25 as an example. The issues we have (besides finding the players) with buy low, high ceiling type players is we don’t offer enough game time, we have an expectation that players hit ground running and other issues like getting them working visas etc. Moneyball is an option for teams lower in the league but I don’t think is a viable one for us tbh. I’m pretty sceptical on scouting as a discipline also, feels like smoke and mirrors more often than not. I watched Brennan for 5 games and knew a player that can’t dribble, cant pass, can’t get the ball with his back to goal and doesn’t drive forward with the ball, was never going to cut in on the wing, what the fuck were our scouts thinking? Now admittedly he may have been an Ange decision but in my view stopping managers from buying shit players is the whole point of a technical director. On the flip side, when other teams find a gem, we all go ‘why didn’t we buy him’ but when you dig into it, it’s usually - they bought 100 shit players and got one gem or the player made a choice to go there with a master plan (haaland with Dortmund) or the team just got fucking lucky (think some of those players in the title winning Leicester team). Besides the teams who produce great youth talent, I’m struggling to think of a team that consistently picks great undervalued or cheap prospects or if the team does, I don’t think we could re-create it (Ajax, Porto etc) for the reasons listed above (game time, visas etc).
These days, it's about finding the right player with the right contract situation.
Back then, examples were Toby and Dembele. The latter had a buyout clause and the former had a fee agreed with the Southampton that we matched.
You can build a decent squad if you identify players who are willing to move who also don't have 3+ years left with their club.
We also need to walk away, immediately, from anyone who isn't chomping at the bit to come. IE, Eze. Cunt.
 
Yeah I didn't like what he said about the gooners, but I ignored it, thought maybe he is just like that , wants to win every game, fair enough....

Then comes the league games and our losses soon got into double figures, you can't have it both ways can you!

I Love that Ange won us the EL trophy, however he let losing become normalised in the league , which is unacceptable and he paid the price for it!
Not winning is being normalised now so surely Frank should pay the price, no?
 
Not sure I agree

ENIC made statements when binning Levy off

Vinai was brought in as a good communicator - and has already given interviews to set the precedent

Im not sure they can hide, theyve set it up so questions can and will be asked...

My hope is, even if its slow, theyre set things up behind the scenes for major change. New DoF, new coach, proper footballing structure all being sorted. Might cost us this season, but thats the basket all my eggs are in right now...
I just noticed last season and the seasons before, whenever a manager was doing poorly it was the "we want Levy out" chants , ENIC currently seem to be getting a free pass, but I hope your right and i'm just being sceptical of the ambitions of ENIC
 
I just noticed last season and the seasons before, whenever a manager was doing poorly it was the "we want Levy out" chants , ENIC currently seem to be getting a free pass, but I hope your right and i'm just being sceptical of the ambitions of ENIC
Scepticism is fair, just look at the last 20 years

However, we're being told we've got a new world order, Im hoping change is coming (top to bottom)
 
I think the board keep him regardless, he is currently the sole blame for our poor results, ENIC are getting a free pass.....

I think they keep him in place to direct the anger of the fans away from them, its like we are already a week into the window and the owner bit of business we have done is selling last seasons top scorer, yet all the protests have now stopped as Levy has been forced out, its a smart bit of business really, gives the fans someone to blame everything on and detracts from the parasites really running the club!
Cynical but true unfortunately
 
Which is fine, but people are criticising the current manager in a way that rewrites history. You can look back through every manager, even to Poch's reign, and see signs of defeatism, or "reality", not understanding how the fans think etc. It wasn't remotely as big as it is now. Previous manager actively criticised fans, argued with them, cupped his ear to them, and that's seemingly no where near as antagonising as a passive description of the current state of the top 4

I don't know why it's being wheeled out as confirmation bias now. People were jumping on him saying "top, top" early on, as if it really matters. You'll have people saying stuff like "he should be sacked because he won't give a timeline on Solanke" and other really odd things like that.

People used to say that Levy used to shield himself behind the managers, but to me it looks like Levy himself was the criticism shield. People are pinning everything on the way Frank talks, looks, and the nuances of his adjectives because there's no clear idea of who exactly is running the club and making decisions
No there not... what utter bullshit!!! We are pinning our disproval on his garbage football and loser mentality... all the other stuff (floppy hair, stupid accent, bigging up Woolwich, criticising the fanbase, re: Vicario etc., not being transparent)... just bi-products...
 
We also need to walk away, immediately, from anyone who isn't chomping at the bit to come. IE, Eze. Cunt.
Absolutely this. You still sometimes see people here saying "If we'd paid Joe Bloggs more money maybe he would have wanted to come", but we don't need players like that, we don't need players who don't really want to come but will put themselves through the pain or inconvenience of life here for a couple of years if we put an extra £50k a week on their wages. As soon as we get Eze-vibes, we should move on immediately, even if that means getting a lesser player - I'd rather have a second choice who wants to be here than a first choice who doesn't.

Bringing this back to Frank, this is another issue with him - can any of us imagine players saying "ooh I'd love to play for him, his style of football, his incredible motivation, the positive way he sold me his project"? Of course not. And it doesn't help that Ange, for all his obvious faults, did have all of those things it seems. I really don't know what sort of players we are likely to recruit this month with Frank in charge (or indeed with no one in charge if he gets fired). Tbh I don't really see how we can possibly do well in this transfer window. :(
 
If you want to be that pedantic, he won an FA Cup which is already more than Poch ever won. We were also never in Woolwich's position, they've been 2nd three years in a row and have led the table for numerous stretches of the season. I know we like to think it, but we were never credible title challengers at any point under Poch, the scum are. We didn't even finish 2nd in the Leicester season, the scum did. Our actual best season was when Conte won it at Chelsea and they basically ran away with it.

Let's just be real here, we never once looked likely to win the league under Poch. We never had it in our hands, we never bottled it, we just didn't get close. Closer than we've been for a long time yes, but not close enough. Not as close as the scum are the last few years.
I know he’s won the FA Cup. If we are playing the pedant, he won the FA Cup in his first six months with Emery’s team. Before he spent a penny, really. I asked what his 1bn spend won him. Which is nothing.
 
The world according to CJJ

Ange cupped his ear and had a pop at the Fans (BAD ANGE)
Frank criticised our fanbase over Vicario booing (GOOD FRANK)
Ange only won 11 games last season and lost 22 (BAD ANGE)
Frank is on course to win 13 games this season and lose 13 (GOOD FRANK)
Ange only won second rate cups - we should really hand back the Europa, we don't deserve it (BAD ANGE)
Frank finishes midtable with football from the dark ages (GOOD FRANK)
Ange can't use injuries as an excuse as he injured all the players (BAD ANGE)
Frank has been without 4 key forwards all season but he didn't injure Maddison in pre-season or rush Solanke back v City (GOOD FRANK)
Ange's first ten games don't count (BAD ANGE)
Frank losing to Woolwich and Chavs don't count as they are better than us (GOOD FRANK)
Ange had a stupid accent (BAD ANGE)
Frank has a stupid accent (GOOD FRANK)

I could go on... so much perspective through different lenses...

What are you? I'll give you a clue... the second word is sandwich...
 
Absolutely this. You still sometimes see people here saying "If we'd paid Joe Bloggs more money maybe he would have wanted to come", but we don't need players like that, we don't need players who don't really want to come but will put themselves through the pain or inconvenience of life here for a couple of years if we put an extra £50k a week on their wages. As soon as we get Eze-vibes, we should move on immediately, even if that means getting a lesser player - I'd rather have a second choice who wants to be here than a first choice who doesn't.

Bringing this back to Frank, this is another issue with him - can any of us imagine players saying "ooh I'd love to play for him, his style of football, his incredible motivation, the positive way he sold me his project"? Of course not. And it doesn't help that Ange, for all his obvious faults, did have all of those things it seems. I really don't know what sort of players we are likely to recruit this month with Frank in charge (or indeed with no one in charge if he gets fired). Tbh I don't really see how we can possibly do well in this transfer window. :(
Connor Gallager...

Right Connor, I want you to get the ball and safe pass back to Romero or Vicario
If that pass isn't on, then hoof it into the stand
If you are somehow facing the opposition goal hoof it to Richarlison
What if there is a through ball on to Odobert or Kudus
No, no, no... you are not listening.
 
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