Amazingly yes, it can be worse

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Fucking grim.

Without knowing what is in the players heads, it seems a few things going on. 1 the players are burnt out after all the extra games in the EL or 2 they (and maybe Poch) really do not want to play in the EL next season. They seem to be taking it easy in the last few games. If this is the case, the main thing in therse two options is the fucking EL.

Next season is MASSIVE for Poch. The one groan I have about Poch is when the January window closed and we didnt bring a forward in, he said something like "I am happy with my forwards". But then he continues to just play Kane who is obviously fucked like a few others.
 
NorseYid said:
ManUtd showed today what it's all about. Like watching an old Fergie team.

And they are hardly a better team than City player for player, but dedication can get you a long way.

Look at their 2nd goal, high pressing, 4 players instantly in and around the small box. That's how you create chances and take them.
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Go back two months and everyone was saying they were playing the worst football in the league and Van Gaal out!

Absolutely no reason to get rid of Poch. We've tried sacking the manager just about every other year, it never fucking works and we're always the same. Consistency would be a novel thing to try and might work
 
Mick Cooper said:
I have never said he was the messiah, neither do I have some glorious insight that he is something special. Certainly to date, he seems to be nothing special.
My big plus for the guy is that he has achieved good things with southampton and now us, with 2 squads that on paper don't look particularly great.
- the big ticket items on our squad look like money badly spent and our successes cost us nothing.
I just want to see managers given more rope, Harry did ok-ish in his first season, then hit the big time in his second, and thrilled us all in the 3rd, until the press wanted him knighted, deified and made Queen.
Lets give Pochettino the same grace for season 2 before we all start getting "holier than thou" on who called him a waste of oxygen first - or Smugness coronets for who stuck by him when the pitchforks and torches came out.
I am constantly slagged off for my age - sorry, but I have been following the club for a long time and I have witnessed shit and glory (ish) and the one thing that stands out is that the thing that has crippled us is the turbo fan, revolving door on the managers office.
Show some patience folks. Heaven only knows what some of you would do if we ever went down again.
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Never said you thought he was the Messiah mate, just some are really convinced he's the man but I'm not sure why.
I agree he now has to have time regardless of whether he is that good or not, which is the predicament we've ended up in after all the manager merry-go-round.
 
Ossie's Cream said:
Fucking grim.

Without knowing what is in the players heads, it seems a few things going on. 1 the players are burnt out after all the extra games in the EL or 2 they (and maybe Poch) really do not want to play in the EL next season. They seem to be taking it easy in the last few games. If this is the case, the main thing in therse two options is the fucking EL.

Next season is MASSIVE for Poch. The one groan I have about Poch is when the January window closed and we didnt bring a forward in, he said something like "I am happy with my forwards". But then he continues to just play Kane who is obviously fucked like a few others.
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I wouldn't be too concerned by Poch's post window comment. We clearly tried to offload Ade and get someone else in but it didn't happen. So naturally he's going to say publicly that he's happy with what he has; what more could he say?

As for the form I'd lean towards burn out being the issue as I doubt they would have taken the foot off the gas in the Burnley game intentionally when a CL place was still very much on.
 
Mark Bennett said:
As for the form I'd lean towards burn out being the issue as I doubt they would have taken the foot off the gas in the Burnley game intentionally when a CL place was still very much on.
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What about against Leicester, we were hardly convincing against them? The 3-0 dicking by united prior to that? QPR hardly a fantastic performance. Played well against Swansea ang before that was defeats to chelsea and fiorentina.
 
Eskimo said:
What about against Leicester, we were hardly convincing against them? The 3-0 dicking by united prior to that? QPR hardly a fantastic performance. Played well against Swansea ang before that was defeats to chelsea and fiorentina.
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I'm not sure what ur point is?

I was saying that burn out (of the two theories mentioned) is more likely the reason for the drop in form rather than the players/Poch actively trying to avoid qualifying for the EL.

I wasn't commenting on when exactly the Burn out kicked in.
 
Simmo said:
Never said you thought he was the Messiah mate, just some are really convinced he's the man but I'm not sure why.
I agree he now has to have time regardless of whether he is that good or not, which is the predicament we've ended up in after all the manager merry-go-round.
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By all accounts it's what I - and all of the happy clappers (a group of which I belong, apparently) believe.
My apologies, I didn't mean it to sound like it was an accusation you had leveled at me.
 
Mark Bennett said:
I'm not sure what ur point is?

I was saying that burn out (of the two theories mentioned) is more likely the reason for the drop in form rather than the players/Poch actively trying to avoid qualifying for the EL.

I wasn't commenting on when exactly the Burn out kicked in.
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I'm suggesting there isnt any burn out, we were using the europa as an excuse for poor performances/results right since the start. well that and the pitch not being big enough - which would surely lead to more tiredness if they had more ground to cover...
 
Eskimo said:
I'm suggesting there isnt any burn out, we were using the europa as an excuse for poor performances/results right since the start. well that and the pitch not being big enough - which would surely lead to more tiredness if they had more ground to cover...
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Ok that's clearer now.

What do u think the reason for the drop in recent form is? Or are you saying we've been poor all season?

Id still maintain that burn out of the core group is a factor. These are very young players and a lot of responsibility has been put on their shoulders due to the gutless attitudes of the more senior players.

Poch's main task this season was to assess the squad and start to show some improvent in playing style from last season.

He's done both. It's not the finished article by a long way but there have been plenty of signs that he is headed in the right direction if given time to kick on.

Our fitness and desire has been significantly improved and noted by many of the top pundits. It's not been maintained week in week out but there are reasons for that, most notably that he only has a core of about 13-14 players that he can truly rely on and when those have been off form or knackered he's been stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I expect next season he will have a larger pool of his players and we will see more consistency as a result.
 
Thin Lilywhite Duke said:
scott scott if I have a disagreement with someone, isn't it worse to sit on my opinions for fear of participating in some kind of forum 'narrative'?

If you're criticising me making a point and not what the point is, then I honestly don't know what to say.
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no iam saying u make a point about sammy but dont about people who just call him a cunt all the time. suprised u arent ok with sammy calling someone a cunt but u are with all the others who call him a cunt with no actual input about spurs. at least sammy always has input about spurs. it dont matter anyway! just suprised u are happy with posters saying nothing about spurs & just calling sammy a cunt. but not ok with sammy saying it back considering he at least makes some good or interesting points about spurs. each to their own!
 
Astro said:
So we didn't have a gameplan or fight when we beat Chelsea?
You believe the players on the pitch weren't trying today?

By all accounts Poch's training regime, especially pre season is legendary and there's a multitude of details on how he analyses games and players performances.......

But if the guy doesn't have the players he needs and I think we can all agree on that, then we can hardly expect wins every match or even decent performances.

He's working with what we have right now. A lot of youth too which will sometimes be brilliant, sometimes off par.

I trust that Poch will learn more from these games than the 5-3 against Chelsea. And hope that next season.... a time to have more expectation, will see a lot of changes - but even then, we'll still lose games
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i didnt say we never had a game all season where we showed fight & a gameplan. u may be happy with a handful of performaces like that out of about 45 or however many games we have played. but i think that is really poor. just 5 or 6 good performances all season. i dont no why i bothered reply to such a weak argument.
 
Astro said:
True lol,
But 2nd season and they're only level on points with us (game in hand tho lol, but hardly groundbreaking) despite all our changes and losses of players plus a massive 51 games played.
And lets be honest, they aren't having to play so many youths, possibly have more finances/resources which you'd expect to kick in on a managers 2nd season
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they lost suarez there 1 world class player. & sturridge always injured. gerrard past it now too. goes to show how much difference 1 world class player like suarez or bale makes.
 
Neumanator said:
Tell that to Manchester United, Southampton and Crystal Palace
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To me it seems like Koeman and Van Gaal got the players they wanted. And let's be realistic it took a while for LVG to get his team going. Reason they're above us is because their players are quite simply better.

Southampton are much more balanced then previous seasons. They've built a team based on solid defensive foundations. But even so, you have Southampton fans abusing Koeman and his tactics, his lack of plan b and persistence in Pelle.
 
Totti said:
To me it seems like Koeman and Van Gaal got the players they wanted. And let's be realistic it took a while for LVG to get his team going. Reason they're above us is because their players are quite simply better.

Southampton are much more balanced then previous seasons. They've built a team based on solid defensive foundations. But even so, you have Southampton fans abusing Koeman and his tactics, his lack of plan b and persistence in Pelle.
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And they had no EL to worry about.
 
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