?

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Europa league offers a legitimate route into the Champions League, and any PL team that competes in the Europa League is bound to be one of the best 4 or 5 teams in the competition. As Chelsea and United gather momentum, Leicester looks a continuing threat, Liverpool recovers from injuries, and City remain the best team in the world, I do not think our chances for top 4 next year will be especially good. So I’d like to be in the EL to maximize our chances to get back to Champions League.

Not really a fan of the conference league, though.
 
There is plenty of evidence to show that teams not encumbered with European football perform better in their domestic competitions - Leicester - Liverpool - Utd have all benefited from a "year off"

With a new manager it might well be an advantage to have fewer games, that said players like the European stage not only for the profile but the money ... we paid 17m in bonuses last accounts not sure to whom or for what ... but it's no secret we pay low wages high bonuses. If we're not in Europe all the players will miss out, whilst they deserve it for being so poor, it might not make for a happy squad.
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
I will always want to get into Europa League rather than not be in it. The teams at the top almost always are playing in Europe and still manage. The myth that the Europa League hurts your league form is still BS. United are cruising to 2nd despite going the furthest of any Europa League team, Woolwich are low in the league because they suck not because of Europa.

If you want to win a trophy winning the Europa is likely easier than FA or even Carabao Cup. City has won the last 4 Carabao Cups and as we saw this year puts up a strong team in the final. You will not face a team that good in the Europa League. The top 4 in the PL are likely stronger than the top 4 teams in Europa and are all in the FA and Carabao Cup. Europa League also brings with it direct entry into the top group in the CL group stage draw which is massive.

But more specific to our team I am really hoping we are going to have a ton of youth in the team next season that can benefit from playing in the Europa League. I also hope we have a manager that will trust them and not through Son and Kane on after 10 minutes if we aren't up 10-0 against LASK or Shrodiekflsadfajdskl FC. This could be a great time to give Skipp 90 minutes, see what Lavanier can handle at RB, Tanganga as CB, if Sess comes back see if he can handle LB. Lots of guys that could use playing time at a level lower than the PL and with less immediate stakes if they make an error or two.
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
There is plenty of evidence to show that teams not encumbered with European football perform better in their domestic competitions - Leicester - Liverpool - Utd have all benefited from a "year off"

With a new manager it might well be an advantage to have fewer games, that said players like the European stage not only for the profile but the money ... we paid 17m in bonuses last accounts not sure to whom or for what ... but it's no secret we pay low wages high bonuses. If we're not in Europe all the players will miss out, whilst they deserve it for being so poor, it might not make for a happy squad.

There is much more evidence that teams with Europe do well and teams without Europe do much worse. The outliers used are so small in number that it often doesn't happen and is very hard to say it was because of no Europe versus other factors.
 
Without European football, it is likely that a number of our older players will leave. I wonder if they have exit clauses in their contracts?

I cannot imagine at this stage in the career of Toby, Kane, Son, Lloris that they want to fight for European football qualification.
 
If we are in the Europa League or Europa conference next season, the manager needs to play the kids more.

Although we had a few youngsters make 15mins cameo, I like to see those cameos turned to starts instead. Players like Kane, Lloris, Son, etc shouldn't be making playing the these competitions until the knockout rounds.
 
There is much more evidence that teams with Europe do well and teams without Europe do much worse. The outliers used are so small in number that it often doesn't happen and is very hard to say it was because of no Europe versus other factors.
Because the teams in Europe by definition are the best teams ..... look beyond the obvious.
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
Because the teams in Europe by definition are the best teams ..... look beyond the obvious.

There is nothing to show that playing in Europe hurts teams. Part of the reason those teams are the best is the money they get from playing in Europe, the experience they get playing in Europe, the ability to give their youth time to develop in real games by playing in Europe.

There is a reason that teams work hard to qualify for the European spots.

I think there could be an argument for teams like Burnley that fluke their way into Europe and don't have the team to compete or a WH if they got into CL which is way above their ability, but we are not in that position. We have the depth to compete in Europa easily.
 
There is nothing to show that playing in Europe hurts teams. Part of the reason those teams are the best is the money they get from playing in Europe, the experience they get playing in Europe, the ability to give their youth time to develop in real games by playing in Europe.

There is a reason that teams work hard to qualify for the European spots.

I think there could be an argument for teams like Burnley that fluke their way into Europe and don't have the team to compete or a WH if they got into CL which is way above their ability, but we are not in that position. We have the depth to compete in Europa easily.
Chicken and Egg - how did teams not in Europe ten years ago ever get in if the requirement to get in is the money from already being in?

There is an argument for any team that isn't near guaranteed European football that having free weeks to focus on the league helps, that's just blindingly obvious, only when you are a true mega club with the money to run 25 top players can you not worry about rotation.

I get what you're saying and Bayern, PSG, Barca, Real, City all come in that category - sadly we are still just a bit short - no question the EPL is by far the toughest to qualify from even with four spots, playing 45 games instead of 60 that has to be better doesn't it?
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
Chicken and Egg - how did teams not in Europe ten years ago ever get in if the requirement to get in is the money from already being in?

There is an argument for any team that isn't near guaranteed European football that having free weeks to focus on the league helps, that's just blindingly obvious, only when you are a true mega club with the money to run 25 top players can you not worry about rotation.

I get what you're saying and Bayern, PSG, Barca, Real, City all come in that category - sadly we are still just a bit short - no question the EPL is by far the toughest to qualify from even with four spots, playing 45 games instead of 60 that has to be better doesn't it?

Teams can obviously rise up but look at the teams that are in Europe year after year, for the majority it is the same teams that go and that is in part due to the extra money they get from Europe. Obviously it is a bigger deal with CL but even if all EL does is gives us enough money to buy one more guy, or upgrade from a 15m player to a 20m player that makes a difference.

We have the depth to compete in Europa no doubt. Last year there was no reason for Son or Kane to play a single minute of Europa until the Zagreb tie. Even guys like Ndombele and PEH could have been sat in all those games. But Jose was so focused on being a serial winner that he paniced at the first sign of trouble and didn't trust our b team to get the job done. Bring in a better manager that doesn't panic and we use our players properly and it shouldn't impact the league one bit.

No playing 45 game instead of 60 isn't better when the majority of the people playing in the extra 15 games will have a minimal impact on the PL.
 
Teams can obviously rise up but look at the teams that are in Europe year after year, for the majority it is the same teams that go and that is in part due to the extra money they get from Europe. Obviously it is a bigger deal with CL but even if all EL does is gives us enough money to buy one more guy, or upgrade from a 15m player to a 20m player that makes a difference.

We have the depth to compete in Europa no doubt. Last year there was no reason for Son or Kane to play a single minute of Europa until the Zagreb tie. Even guys like Ndombele and PEH could have been sat in all those games. But Jose was so focused on being a serial winner that he paniced at the first sign of trouble and didn't trust our b team to get the job done. Bring in a better manager that doesn't panic and we use our players properly and it shouldn't impact the league one bit.

No playing 45 game instead of 60 isn't better when the majority of the people playing in the extra 15 games will have a minimal impact on the PL.
Fair comment - although for you to say "We have the depth to compete in Europa no doubt" nearly made me spill my coffee ... we lack the quality to play in the top six in the EPL, notably in defence ... it's hard to rotate players with such limited options.

Mourinho never consistently got the best from the front six, he probably did get the best from the back five, trouble is that back five is severely limited.

Without at least two new defenders this summer whoever manages next season will have the same problem, that's with the Europa League or not.
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
Fair comment - although for you to say "We have the depth to compete in Europa no doubt" nearly made me spill my coffee ... we lack the quality to play in the top six in the EPL, notably in defence ... it's hard to rotate players with such limited options.

Mourinho never consistently got the best from the front six, he probably did get the best from the back five, trouble is that back five is severely limited.

Without at least two new defenders this summer whoever manages next season will have the same problem, that's with the Europa League or not.

Top 6 PL is much better than anything we will face until the final 16 if not later.

If nothing changed, which I doubt it will, we could easily have Toby and Rodon as our PL CBs then use a combination of Dier, Sanchez and Tanganga in EL. That would give us a better CB pair than any team we faced in the EL last year.

Our problem with the defense and top 6 is the top end of the team, we need to improve that so Dier and Sanchez aren’t starting for us in the PL.
 
For me I'd love to be in the Europa League if I were an Woolwich or Chelsea fan because they give it a go, but Spurs never do so what's the point, given the fact that we generally do quite well in the CL yet always do so poorly in EL tells you that it comes from the top, ie don't bother prioritising this it's not worth it financially.
 
Great post.

also forces the club to trim squad. With c.15 less games, you really don’t need 24 first team players.... decent 18 complemented by young uns.
 
Top Bottom