A Philosophical Objection to VAR

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Borodin55

Carpe Diem
Even though I'm a Spurs supporter having watched Sheffield United's disallowed goal against us last week made me realise just how silly this whole thing is becoming. It was an embarrassment to football and there have been so many other incidents like it.

This is not why it was introduced. It was meant to be an aid for the referee but they are now failing to make use of the pitch side monitors, not coming to a decision of their own and allowing the God VAR to decide a team's fate.
Meanwhile the fans sit bemused and baffled, waiting for the 'Checking Goal' sign to signify the result.
The VAR chief reckons it's 7/10 for how it's performing :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :

It's making a mockery of our beautiful game and is doing nothing to modernise or enhance it. Used correctly I can see the advantages but in it's present state it is making a fool of football.
 
It's shite in it's current form, ruining the game in my view. If it has to be used then only for clear and obvious errors which is what i thought was the original intention. Spending minutes and drawing dodgy lines down from players knees, shoulders etc to line up with lines across the pitch to detemine someone is 1.6 cm offside and gaining no real advantage is against the spirit of the game in my view.
 
Seems to me that VAR is incompatible with the essence of footie. IMHO, goal line technology was right, but enough. Footie is a game of immediacy and passion. When you are at a game, what you live for is when your side scores. All hell erupts, it’s bloody marvellous. VAR steals that from you. Apart from the goal line, footie does not have to be a game of inches.
 
I'm still sore over what happened with Leicester because it goes beyond a disallowed goal. I feel the decision robbed us of our naturally earned momentum and gave it to the other team; just as I knew we would win when we scored the second goal, I knew we would lose when the goal was taken away.

I feel that what happened on Saturday has serious long-term implications for the integrity of the sport. Do we now penalise the team that works hard to gain the initiative in the match and turn the fruits of that labour over to the team that sits on its backside for 65 minutes?

What are your thoughts?

When Sheff Utd had their momentum crushed they just kept at it and scored another goal anyway.

Us being shit without the ball is fuck all to do with VAR.
 
It’s almost as if people realized they prefer narrative and flow to technocratic bullshittery after all.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, when it comes to VAR all you need to do is follow the money.

Americanization masquerading as scientific method. Plain and simple.

I’ve watched a hell of a lot of football over the past week or two and the game now seems to consist of the following events:

1. Falling over.
2. Claiming handball because why not, you might get it.
3. Claiming a red card for everything.
4. Retaking saved penalties because of fractional “encroachment” then resulting in a goal. (In my mind saved penalties are so exceptional they should stand.)
5. Confusion and waiting. Cue two-dimensional renderings of three-dimensional space at, probably, 23 frames a second. I’m still unconvinced of the legitimacy of this.
6. The looming sense that lengthy VAR breaks might
be a fantastic opportunity to present viewers with an advertisement. “This VAR break is brought to you by Coca-Cola. The pause that refreshes.”

American fucking football.
 
I'm still sore over what happened with Leicester because it goes beyond a disallowed goal. I feel the decision robbed us of our naturally earned momentum and gave it to the other team; just as I knew we would win when we scored the second goal, I knew we would lose when the goal was taken away.

I feel that what happened on Saturday has serious long-term implications for the integrity of the sport. Do we now penalise the team that works hard to gain the initiative in the match and turn the fruits of that labour over to the team that sits on its backside for 65 minutes?

What are your thoughts?
 
I honestly was in favour of it initially, but the way it's being used to scrutinise every aspect of every goal has destroyed the elation of celebrating and now I just feel trepidation when we score.
 

Johnboy40

Where's the Kaboom?
No issue with goaline tech, detest VAR. Its sucking all the spontaneity out of the game and I detest the managers like mark Hughes, who blame every defeat on the officials, are the reason, along side sky claiming contested throw ins were controversial decisions, that we have it.
 
No one asked for or expected it to be implemented this way, mm offsides, ridiculous new handball interpretations that differentiate between defenders handball and attackers handball and finally the old boys club where the VAR ref sees a clear and obvious error but doesn't do anything cos he don't want to upset his pal on the pitch.

Scrap the fucking thing.
 
VAR is an unwelcome interference that makes it easier to fix games. And if you don’t believe games are fixed then carry on paying your £70 a week and moaning like fuck.
 

Johnboy40

Where's the Kaboom?
Simply this: Football is about scoring goals. Increasingly, VAR is seeming to be about stopping them.

Frankly, I would rather watch a 3-2 game where 4 of the goals might have been disallowed under var than a 1-0 where they were. Im tired, whether at a game, on on telly, of waiting for var to say I'm allowed to celebrate.
 

ILSpur

ESL founding member
Fucking hell. For years all I've heard is people whining about shit offside decisions and conspiracy theories about refs inconsistency ruining football

"all we want is consistency "

We get a system that has pretty much eradicated the incorrect offside decision and now it's

"football isn't supposed to be about consistency"
Yeah, you have a point, but I also think that how VAR is being executed is the real issue.

You could argue that the usage for offsides is the most consistent. It is checked constantly, every goal is checked for it and they have made no doubt about it that they will call offsides for a matter of milimeteres.

But the calls are supposed to correct clear and obvious errors. So, the application of VAR is consistent but you could argue that the application of the law isn't.

The other big issue that gets overlooked more is the lack of consistency in other applocations. It seems to be at random sometimes when it is going to be used for fouls. Because the VAR reviews for offsides take so long and everyone gets so focused on the lines being drawn, we forget about the times when it should maybe be used, if the goal is consistency. So many fouls, potential handballs and off the ball issues aren't reviewed or done so with anything close to consistency.

When VAR is used consistently, the application of the ruling doesn't seem to be used in the spirit of why it was implemented. When it is used more appropriately with the intentions of it, it is used inconsistently.
 
Yeah, you have a point, but I also think that how VAR is being executed is the real issue.

You could argue that the usage for offsides is the most consistent. It is checked constantly, every goal is checked for it and they have made no doubt about it that they will call offsides for a matter of milimeteres.

But the calls are supposed to correct clear and obvious errors. So, the application of VAR is consistent but you could argue that the application of the law isn't.

The other big issue that gets overlooked more is the lack of consistency in other applocations. It seems to be at random sometimes when it is going to be used for fouls. Because the VAR reviews for offsides take so long and everyone gets so focused on the lines being drawn, we forget about the times when it should maybe be used, if the goal is consistency. So many fouls, potential handballs and off the ball issues aren't reviewed or done so with anything close to consistency.

When VAR is used consistently, the application of the ruling doesn't seem to be used in the spirit of why it was implemented. When it is used more appropriately with the intentions of it, it is used inconsistently.

Personally I think we (and by that I mean mostly the fucking TV football geezer pundits) should all stop whining about VAR for offsides. They've nye on eradicated the constant, almost every match, errors on offside - the linesman concept of offside was always ludicrous anyway, how is he supposed to look in two diametrically opposing directions and assess two different actions simultaneously anyway?

I don't mind if they tinker slightly and say, fore instance, where the lines touch, then benefit to the attacker etc, and I'm sure the software will get even better for measuring both ends of the equation (ball kicked and offside lines).


Now VAR is here, and things can be checked much better, they do need to refine certain laws and applications accordingly. And they need to take out as much of the subjectivity that is still built in as they possibly can. But as you say, this is much about laws as it is VAR.
 

Dr Rocktopus

🎃🦇🎃🦇🎃
VAR isn't the problem.

Its the interpretation of the system. The offside rule needs to be changed. The application of the system itself needs to be used better.

The correct decision regarding the Mane goal yesterday for example. We all saw clearly from the first replay it wasn't handball. It shouldn't take official's 2 minutes to come to a conclusion.

If anything, we need better referees. Anthony Taylor was the referee in charge yesterday, he was also the same guy who gave us a free kick for Gazzaniga kicking Alonso, when VAR overturned his incompetence.

There should be three outcomes: ‘Goal’, ‘No Goal’, and ‘Inconclusive’.

If it’s not an obvious decision within 30 seconds it’s inconclusive and whatever the original call was should stand.
 
Other than the US (?) there are issues with it everywhere - my opinion is formed from various podcasts but Spain / Germany / Italy still dislike it - it takes away more than it gives. Its not just teething issues and its not just the way the EPL have decided to do it.

It was better when football had the same rules for every competition. I can't even remember when it started to go the wrong way. VAR in a league cup match, but not in european qualifiers ? I think one of the reasons why football was so fascinating and attracted such a big audience world wide was that no matter what match you watched it was played under the same rules. Now you have to look up the rules before you start watching a match ....
 
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