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Management Ange Postecoglou

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McCOYS said:
So that leads to my point that there is a comparison between Nuno and Ange.

Nuno with his Mendes players making him look better than he was.
Ange with his superior budget in the Scottish premiership compared to his peers.

So in fact we haven't learnt a thing and we've made the same mistake twice.
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Nah it's not and I've already explained the difference but since you want to ignore it there's no point carry on this debate.
 
Shadydan said:
Nah it's not and I've already explained the difference but since you want to ignore it there's no point carry on this debate.
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I've conceded that Nuno was a desperation hire but he wouldn't have even been that if he never had all those Mendes players to make him look better than he was.

Just as the rest of the Scottish Premiership (bar Rangers) make Celtic (Ange) look better than he was.

Can you reallly not grasp this, or are you doing some sort of passive aggressive trolling?
 
McCOYS said:
I've conceded that Nuno was a desperation hire but he wouldn't have even been that if he never had all those Mendes players to make him look better than he was.

Just as the rest of the Scottish Premiership (bar Rangers) make Celtic (Ange) look better than he was.

Can you reallly not grasp this, or are you doing some sort of passive aggressive trolling?
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what about the Australian national team, they are and always have been garbage of a san marino level. he got them competitive in his spell there, winning their one and only real trophy in the process
 
McCOYS said:
I've conceded that Nuno was a desperation hire but he wouldn't have even been that if he never had all those Mendes players to make him look better than he was.

Just as the rest of the Scottish Premiership (bar Rangers) make Celtic (Ange) look better than he was.

Can you reallly not grasp this, or are you doing some sort of passive aggressive trolling?
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Have a good day :thumbup:
 
Kaz Hirai said:
have they won a major trophy in their history before of after ange? or even got to semi final?

and they were ranked 60 when he took over, similar to iran like i just said . love the mental gymnastics tho :ange-lol:
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After just looking 2015 was only their 2nd Asia cup as they'd been in a different federation. They finished runners up in 2011 and yes, won it in 2015 as hosts. Fair play to him but lets not make out they are or were helpless minnows at San Marino level. As hosts you'd say it was acheivable to win it. Anyway thats more than i ever wanted or needed to know about the Australian national team so will leave it there
 
daveyboy88 said:
were celtic playing against sides that sit deep and get compact? and was he using counter attacking forwards to break that down over there?
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No but he has had to have evolved and adapted his tactics over the last 20 years of Management. Also Ange is absolutley ruthless when it comes to player trading. He released 7 players when he joined Melbourne Victory. 19-20 Players were signed at Celtic. The man also has a chip on his shoulders pushing him to succeed.

I am sure that once he gets the overall principal of the way he wants to play into the team he will make adjustments in games to win no matter what.

It is easy to say he is not fit to manage in the PL but that is obvious BS. The man has had 20 years in management and will have seen most things. He may fail but it will not be because he doesn't have the ability it will be because the amount of time/money his vision will take is too long/much.
 
Sir Archibald Crooks said:
After just looking 2015 was only their 2nd Asia cup as they'd been in a different federation. They finished runners up in 2011 and yes, won it in 2015 as hosts. Fair play to him but lets not make out they are or were helpless minnows at San Marino level. As hosts you'd say it was acheivable to win it. Anyway thats more than i ever wanted or needed to know about the Australian national team so will leave it there
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Ok :ledley:
 
Kekerinho said:
I donā€™t agree with this narrative of yours, mate. Letā€™s take a look back at our managers.

Redknapp - came in, steered us away from relegation and finished top half. Spent a few seasons at Spurs before he was linked with England job and we bottled 3rd place. At the end of that season he got sacked. Was it harsh? Maybe.

AVB - finished 5th in his first season, but we played a lot of passive football, Bale saved our bacon time and time again. After Bale left, we were beaten left and right and AVB got sacked. He barely produced much as manager afterwards anyway. So was sack justified? Probably.

Sherwood - stop gap.

Pochettino - no need to discuss, just that was his sacking justified? Iā€™d say at the time of it, I think it was because we werenā€™t getting results and our football was becoming sterile for a while. Maybe he shouldā€™ve been afforded the season as transition and see where weā€™d end up, after all heā€™s probably earned it after all heā€™s done for the club.

Mourinho - washed up imo, initial managerial bounce then shit. Sacking him before the League Cup final is seen as a capital sin, personally I think it wouldnā€™t have made a difference, we were trash under him.

Mason - stop gap.

Nuno - banter appointment. Most people knew it wasnā€™t going to work. Donā€™t know if Levy/Paratici thought it was a stop gap until Conte agreed to take over, but imo Nuno shouldā€™ve never been hired. It was a farce how long it took them to get us a manager and when they did, it was fucking Nuno.

Conte - very bright start of his Spurs stint, finished top 4, but in the second season people started to moan about the football and his rigid tactics. His post-Southampton press conference probably sealed his faith, I think he wouldnā€™t have been sacked if he didnā€™t criticize the players and the board in public. Who knows what mightā€™ve happened after that, our fans said Conte never wanted to be here and he wanted the sack, so in a way he had to go?

Stellini + Mason - lol.

Postecoglou - came in, we started the season very well and although heā€™s had to deal with injuries, the football we played gradually became worse. We lost 4 in a row against two injury depleted sides where we played like shit. Doesnā€™t want to adjust his tactics to accomodate players. Needs money to make his system work. Sounds a bit like Conte, doesnā€™t it?

So overall, itā€™s not like we sacked managers simply because we hit a bumpy road and said fuck it, letā€™s give someone else in. Our managers didnā€™t look like they could turn it around. And on top of that, you could argue some appointments have been completely wrong to begin with.

So yeah, would we ā€œsackā€ Postecoglou simply because we canā€™t handle some defeats? No, itā€™s because the progress under him has been minimal and the signs look like heā€™s hit a point where he might not be able to turn it around.
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Pretty good post that, though with Poch the 'parting of ways' was by mutual agreement. Let's not forget that he was twerking for a move on the eve of the CL Final.

With AP, you need to factor in that we've essentially ripped up the plan, or lack thereof, that preceded him. We're in the process of instigating a different style of play, with everything from the board to the playing staff changed last Summer. That doesn't happen overnight and I'm hard pressed to recall any team that's managed to do that, which is why the likes of Arteta, Klopp and Pep are cited as comparisons. You might not like it, but they're viable comparisons. A further example of this is Potter. It took him a few seasons to get Brighton playing the way he wanted. So many were banging on about De Zerbi, but he inherited the foundations that Potter had built, and got enormous plaudits even though all he really did was polish the diamond.

AP is still in the process of turning the coal we had into that diamond, and that takes time. Whether he will, and whether he's able to polish it as well, only time and backing will tell.

Comparing him to Conte, as far as needing money, is a bit disingenuous too. EVERY manager needs money and time to get in the players they need. The difference between the two though is that AP isn't demanding the absolute elite, for the highest transfer fees and highest wages. He wants the right players to fit his requirements of ability and, most importantly, temperament. If they happen to be the most expensive players on the market, then he absolutely MUST be backed to make this work.

You don't think this will happen, which is fair enough considering our past history under ENIC, but I feel that it will happen, though that may be more hope than absolute belief. Again, only time will tell.

One thing is for sure, bailing at the first sign of adversity has not worked for us in any way, shape or form.

I've seen a few on here quoting Einstein's statement that doing the same thing and expecting different outcomes is madness, but you can't just cherry pick that quote to suit certain arguments.

We really need to stay the course IMO. We have ample examples of the success this can bring in the Prem now, so why not take a leaf out of that book?
 
Kaz Hirai said:
what about the Australian national team, they are and always have been garbage of a san marino level. he got them competitive in his spell there, winning their one and only real trophy in the process
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It would be interesting to see him manage a national team. Probably easier to make the system work when you're not playing the same squads twice a year. With his personality he'd go over big with the fans.
 
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