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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Harry Vaginola said:
well it's apparent we're stuck with ange until the end of the season so no point in arguing with you few dead enders anymore. you guys are more obsessed with knocking back arguments than anything happening on the pitch so back to ignore you go. honestly anyone still thinking ange is the answer just isn't a serious person really.

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Yeah I hear you bro 👍🏾
 
WillWilliams said:
But we were 7th after 10 games. Not 15th. Over last 10 games we are 18th. Do you understand that?
It’s like the people who sat the first 10 games of Ange weren’t an outlier. They were.

These last 10 games are an outlier.

Until we had this huge change to the spine of our defensive unit we were doing ok.

It’s pretty clear that having a below par GK, 18 year old CB who’s not actually a CB and an inexperienced CB alongside your novice is a recipe for disaster. But for years I’ve said on this forum having young inexperienced CBs isn’t wise in this league. You will get found out. Prefer it wasn’t this situation to be proven right.

You’re spot on. Calvert Lewin v Gray is a man against a boy. It showed.

If people can’t correlate the players (from this squad) with the results that’s up to them.
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Yes, I understand that the manager has had a high amount of injuries and as a manager has not coped with that to any reasonable level of competency. The players he has left are not the 18th best set of players in the league, he just hasn't done management stuff.

We weren't doing ok. Go back and look at our form the second half of last season + the start this season. It was pitifully poor. For about a year and a half Ange's PPG has been dismal, the worst of any Spurs coach ever. We were mediocre pre injuries and diabolical post injuries.

We signed a keeper people rate and who actually saved us repeatedly against Everton and were still 3-0 down. We didn't have to play Gray, we had Davies/Dragusin available, two men. And the "boy" himself started all of last season for a top championship side, against men. He was excellent.

Ange is failing. Of course injuries = context. Of course the squad isn't equipped well enough. And of course the coach is not dealing with the crisis acceptably. He is paid to manage, which means making adjustments. What did Klopp do when Liverpool had a crap keeper and zero fit first team centre backs? They ground out points on the way to 4th. They didn't fall apart and finish 15th. This is the gap between a manager and a cheerleader.
 
I think if someone today still thinks he's a competent premier league manager, then they always will.
I don't think anything is going to change their mind if they're still entrenched in that belief now.

It's probably best for everyone's sanity to stop arguing about it.
 
FightingIllini said:
Even at our absolute best against the very weakest PL opponents, playing Angeball is going to generate threatening counterattacks at a level and speed that most of the SPL can't against the Old Firm.

From an xG, expectation of winning perspective that's not a big deal necessarily, we have much better defenders than Celtic does and can handle those situations without allowing big chances, in theory.

But from the perspective of "how much max-effort sprinting do the CB's need to do over 90 minutes?", the difference between Southampton and Ross County is pretty meaningful. Over the course of a season it becomes a much different physical ask of the players.

To be clear, I am NOT saying "Angeball caused our injury crisis, and always will". It's possible there's nothing there and this is all a pure matter of bad luck (or bad sports science). But I don't think "Angeball creates more risk of soft tissue injury at the margin" can be rejected out of hand, as some seem eager to do.
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We weren’t really conceding counter attacks to start the season when our defenders were fit
 
Richard Arlison said:
We weren’t really conceding counter attacks to start the season when our defenders were fit
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That's not true at all, we were just much, much better at snuffing them out when Micky Van De Ven could make a 50 yard recovery run and dispossess the opponent's fastest and most threatening attacker. He did that all the time, gloriously so, making those little break-outs futile and non-threatening.

And again, the comparison point is SPL sides playing tactics against the Old Firm that make Sean Dyche look like Johan Cruyff.

The physical ask is just different.
 
Matt1882 said:
I was being somewhat hyperbolic.
But the people who constantly berate the players for not being good enough for Ange can't seem to explain how, when it all clicks, suddenly are good enough.

If the players weren't good enough they'd never be good enough. They wouldn't have beaten Liverpool for instance. Only 2 teams have beaten them all season and the other one has themselves only lost a small amount of games.

There's a massive amount of hypocrisy there.
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Do you not think that was more down to the bin dippers having an off day than our guys playing like prime 80s Brazil
 
Matt1882 said:
I've got half the forum on ignore now because of it.
I have no desire to constantly argue when they can acknowledge we're as bad as we've ever been but don't want to change it.
It's absolutely at flat earth levels of absurdity.
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To be fair it took me long enough to realise that Ange was just a load of hot air and very little substance. I was arguing after the Man City game that no other team does that to City. I was not singing his praises either I just did not care whether he was there or not. I thought we had to give him the season.

Then I went to the Chelsea game this year and it was the excuses after the game that got me.
 
enfield1985 said:
To be fair it took me long enough to realise that Ange was just a load of hot air and very little substance. I was arguing after the Man City game that no other team does that to City. I was not singing his praises either I just did not care whether he was there or not. I thought we had to give him the season.

Then I went to the Chelsea game this year and it was the excuses after the game that got me.
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Apologising publicly for Levy by stating how hard they were working to bring in players but the selling clubs were exploiting Spurs by adding a premium really pissed me off.

Levy has low balled every selling club he has ever bought from and held every buying club to ransom.
 
FightingIllini said:
That's not true at all, we were just much, much better at snuffing them out when Micky Van De Ven could make a 50 yard recovery run and dispossess the opponent's fastest and most threatening attacker. He did that all the time, gloriously so, making those little break-outs futile and non-threatening.

And again, the comparison point is SPL sides playing tactics against the Old Firm that make Sean Dyche look like Johan Cruyff.

The physical ask is just different.
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he snuffed out some but that’s not a system issue, that’s successful recruitment buying the right profile for the needs.
 
FightingIllini said:
Even at our absolute best against the very weakest PL opponents, playing Angeball is going to generate threatening counterattacks at a level and speed that most of the SPL can't against the Old Firm.
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How do you explain 4-0 away at City, 4 goal wins against Villa and Newcastle and even 2 wins against Liverpool at home in 2 years.

Saying it only works against the very weakest teams in the PL isn't even close to true. If anything it's the hard working , middle of the road teams like Fulham, Bournemouth and last year Wolves that it ahs struggled with so far.
FightingIllini said:
From an xG, expectation of winning perspective that's not a big deal necessarily, we have much better defenders than Celtic does and can handle those situations without allowing big chances, in theory.

But from the perspective of "how much max-effort sprinting do the CB's need to do over 90 minutes?", the difference between Southampton and Ross County is pretty meaningful. Over the course of a season it becomes a much different physical ask of the players.

To be clear, I am NOT saying "Angeball caused our injury crisis, and always will". It's possible there's nothing there and this is all a pure matter of bad luck (or bad sports science). But I don't think "Angeball creates more risk of soft tissue injury at the margin" can be rejected out of hand, as some seem eager to do.
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I think Ange was pretty up front about soft tissue injuries in season 1 as a result of adaptation. As that Sports Scientist said, the same injuries in season 2 are the anomaly from everywhere he's been. That seems to be from the load on muscles in players that can't be rotated.

Tbh our CBs don't really have to do more sprints than average per the data. There are plenty of teams that play a high line and try to push up.

I think you can say that Ange ball without proper rotation leads to soft tissue overload for sure but you could say that for City's system, Liverpool's system, Woolwich's system, Bournemouth's system, Brighton's system, even Villa with Emery's famous high-line.
 
Harry Vaginola said:
you aren't trying to change minds or engage in debate. you're just trying to get a rise out of people on a subject they care about. you're simply a troll.

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If there was a logical argument which was strong enough id definitely consider it. So far this thread is like the ENIC thread, full of conjecture and falsehoods because of pure emotional waffle, it's cool though.

And once again you folk need to explain to me how I can be a troll in a thread which is entirely neutral, this isn't the I hate Ange Postecoglu thread, it's a thread about our manager with good and bad merits.

So as I said we ain't going to agree and that's fine, I'm not here to change your mind dude, so I wouldn't expect you to change mine, no harm.
 
Richard Arlison said:
he snuffed out some but that’s not a system issue, that’s successful recruitment buying the right profile for the needs.
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Richard Arlison said:
How do you explain 4-0 away at City, 4 goal wins against Villa and Newcastle and even 2 wins against Liverpool at home in 2 years.

Saying it only works against the very weakest teams in the PL isn't even close to true. If anything it's the hard working , middle of the road teams like Fulham, Bournemouth and last year Wolves that it ahs struggled with so far.


I think Ange was pretty up front about soft tissue injuries in season 1 as a result of adaptation. As that Sports Scientist said, the same injuries in season 2 are the anomaly from everywhere he's been. That seems to be from the load on muscles in players that can't be rotated.

Tbh our CBs don't really have to do more sprints than average per the data. There are plenty of teams that play a high line and try to push up.

I think you can say that Ange ball without proper rotation leads to soft tissue overload for sure but you could say that for City's system, Liverpool's system, Woolwich's system, Bournemouth's system, Brighton's system, even Villa with Emery's famous high-line.
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To be clear, I am very much an Ange supporter and I like and believe in his tactics and philosophy in a vacuum. I want this to work and still believe it can and should.

I just don't think "it asks too much of the players physically to fight on four fronts in England, which is a different ask of the human body than anywhere Ange has been previously" can be rejected out of hand as superstitious internet nonsense. There's evidence to take seriously there.

I believe in Ange and want to stick it out with him. But if compelling evidence exists that it just can't work, you just have to move on.

It's all pointless on some level because of the Daniel Levy handbrake which will hamper us at every turn for as long as he owns the club, but you still want to maximize your opportunities to nick a bit of success where we can.
 
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