Management Ange Postecoglou

[Matt1882]

I would rather watch the most boring 1-0 wins you ever saw, the worst Mourinho Conte catenaccio park-the-bus-and-a-train-too football and compete for CL places than watch this...

I know it's weighted heavily toward a few performances against bad teams, but we're third in goals and are 15th in the table. Deplorable. Unthinkable

A couple of years ago when Everton barely escaped and Leicester was relegated with 34 points, this team would have been in a real scrap that year.

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We've just beaten the shit out of a few weaker kids that hides the reality of us barely being better than them.
We've filled our pockets with goals in a select few games 4's and 5's and we've also scored a lot of consolation goals.
Look at the teams nearer the top, they have scored far more consistently during the season without a handful of high scoring wins like us.

 

[Hulk]

Its not a choice between attacking football and losing over half your games or challenging for top 4 and 1-0 wins with boring football though is it - theres a massive grey area in between which is where we should really be lads.
Everything has to be polar opposites, right and wrong these days!

 

[kcspurs]

Its not a choice between attacking football and losing over half your games or challenging for top 4 and 1-0 wins with boring football though is it - theres a massive grey area in between which is where we should really be lads.
Everything has to be polar opposites, right and wrong these days!

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You're right, but Matt is right that the goal numbers are misleading and this is why the league position in the end says who you are.

That goal total is heavily weighted toward just a few days of the year and seasoned with consolation goals, when the reality is we present almost no attacking threat against decent teams and in tight games.

Being still in the blocks at 90' against Tamworth is all that need be said

 

[jrg83]

Shows how badly Levy and co’s standards have dropped when you remember that they sacked AVB when we were 7th in the league in December of whatever year it was.

remarkable that on balance they’ve always gone early with sackings, but yet this time they are way too late, baffling.

 

[Tomo]

Its not a choice between attacking football and losing over half your games or challenging for top 4 and 1-0 wins with boring football though is it - theres a massive grey area in between which is where we should really be lads.
Everything has to be polar opposites, right and wrong these days!

Click to shrink...

Defensive football is anti Spurs and never works see Nuno, Jose and Graham. Fans reject it. We played good football under Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino and that was mostly quite attacking. If the club switch back to a defensive manager we will be back here in 12-18 months looking for the next manager.

 

[kcspurs]

Defensive football is anti Spurs and never works see Nuno, Jose and Graham. Fans reject it. We played good football under Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino and that was mostly quite attacking. If the club switch back to a defensive manager we will be back here in 12-18 months looking for the next manager.

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Winning football is good, losing football is bad. Nuno didn't see the fans turn on him until we lost 5 of 7 or whatever it was, and Conte had support until we didn't invest and the results dropped.

I don't know any oddball who wants to lose 3-4 instead of winning 1-0. If the results are there the fans will be

 

[Mostly wrong]

Shows how badly Levy and co’s standards have dropped when you remember that they sacked AVB when we were 7th in the league in December of whatever year it was.

remarkable that on balance they’ve always gone early with sackings, but yet this time they are way too late, baffling.

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I'm suprised you went back that far to find an example, he sacked unequivocally our best manager of the 21st century in November over far less questionable league form having taken us to a Champions League final 4 months prior.

 

[Tomo]

Winning football is good, losing football is bad. Nuno didn't see the fans turn on him until we lost 5 of 7 or whatever it was, and Conte had support until we didn't invest and the results dropped.

I don't know any oddball who wants to lose 3-4 instead of winning 1-0. If the results are there the fans will be

Click to shrink...

The issue with results only is there are only results to go on. Once the results turn down a bit there is nothing left to hang on. Only results is ok if you win the title or win the FA Cup or the Champions League, it’s not good enough for a club our size to play shit football and get good enough results to possibly hang around top 6.

Good football also gives you time as a manager, Pochettino didn’t always get the best results at the start but you could see what he was doing pretty quickly and the football was quite fun. Ange is just naive and out of his depth but attempting to play attacking football has probably given him more time then he deserves.

The club doesn’t have to do a 180 and play David Moyes football, it just need a competent manager with a good system.

 

[Mostly wrong]

The issue with results only is there are only results to go on. Once the results turn down a bit there is nothing left to hang on. Only results is ok if you win the title or win the FA Cup or the Champions League, it’s not good enough for a club our size to play shit football and get good enough results to possibly hang around top 6.

Good football also gives you time as a manager, Pochettino didn’t always get the best results at the start but you could see what he was doing pretty quickly and the football was quite fun. Ange is just naive and out of his depth but attempting to play attacking football has probably given him more time then he deserves.

The club doesn’t have to do a 180 and play David Moyes football, it just need a competent manager with a good system.

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It would be rather novel to have a manager again capable of adapting to the opposition at hand, something Poch was actually very very good at. We knew how to win when we were in control and when we weren't, which is the hallmark of a great side when said side can't afford to plow hundreds of millions into building a first and 2nd XI both capable of winning the league. The 3-1 win at Chavs was the perfect example of that, very even game where we couldn't enforce our usual style but were so incisive with taking chances and had so much confidence running through the team we defied the odds and came away with a result for the first time in 28 years.

 

[Harry Vaginola]

If true, well, every club (in the EPL) have toxic fans that any head-coach has to learn how to deal with...


View: https://x.com/HugTheWhiteLine/status/1911887956626841998

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ahh poor ange. all i have to say to him potentially walking away from this toxic environment is

 

[Harry Vaginola]

Defensive football is anti Spurs and never works see Nuno, Jose and Graham. Fans reject it. We played good football under Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino and that was mostly quite attacking. If the club switch back to a defensive manager we will be back here in 12-18 months looking for the next manager.

Click to shrink...

i really don't want 3 atb again tho i'd take anything at this point

 

[kcspurs]

If true, well, every club (in the EPL) have toxic fans that any head-coach has to learn how to deal with...


View: https://x.com/HugTheWhiteLine/status/1911887956626841998

Click to shrink...

(is the worst manager in recent memory and has the club teetering just above the relegation zone, regularly takes issue with fans, makes snide remarks about them in interviews, and has even descended into openly taunting them from the touchline)

"Boy, this fan base is toxic!"

 

[Skeletor]

Even Swedish journalists thinks it's soon over for Ange.

It's translated by AI (because I'm too lazy)

"Soon it will probably be over, Postecoglou
England Blog
Coaches can sometimes maliciously claim that journalists and fans don’t understand football. Sure, if we compare knowledge about running lines in the final third, it would be extremely strange if a professional in their field wasn’t at the forefront there.
The problem?
Football isn’t just about running lines in the final third.
Sometimes, some coaches would probably benefit from understanding the perspective that “everyone else” has on football too. There isn’t just one way to look at things, and every now and then, the solution might actually lie in the simple.
Another thing we on “our side” know: getting into a confrontation with your own fans is rarely a good idea. It never really seems to work.
More often than not, you’re done for.
I have defended Ange Postecoglou tooth and nail. Thought he’s been given shitty conditions by his club, had an injury hell to deal with. Believed that the miserable season would eventually turn around – as long as he gets time.
Time he has been given. Injuries have decreased. Conditions have improved a bit.
But no turnaround has come.
On the contrary. Gradually, everything has just gotten worse and worse.
The Tottenham team he built last year is gone. Everything has collapsed.
And there’s nothing left for Postecoglou to blame anymore.
The identity has gradually disappeared, and somewhere along the way, the players have lost themselves in their coach’s fumbling. There’s just no foundation at all to stand on. No fundamentals, and no security to lean on.
The team is fragile. The players look helpless.
Wolverhampton barely needed to make an effort to score in Sunday’s 4-2 victory. Instead, Spurs kept giving one gift after another.
The defeat to Wolves said a lot: Spurs are lacking a lot. Too much, to be honest.
The warning signs have been there for a long time, but it’s only now that I see an end. That something needs to happen. Because parallel to the sporting disaster on the pitch, Postecoglou has engaged in a dangerous battle off it.
He has, on one hand, clashed with the media and started questioning everyone who questions him. Apparently, you’re not allowed to have opinions about someone who has worked on something for a very long time, just because that person has had their job for a very long time.
Strange logic. Oh well. You do you, Ange.
But above all, he has clashed with his supporters.
Fans sang mockingly that he didn’t “know what he was doing” when he substituted Bergvall for Sarr in the derby against Chelsea a couple of weeks ago. When Sarr shortly thereafter scored (later disallowed by VAR), Ange turned to the fans and put his hand behind his ear.
“What was that you said about me? Ha, did someone say something?”
Ice cold.
Well, Ange, what do you think you’re going to gain from that, really?
I can answer how it will turn out: he won’t win anything. It’s a battle he is certain to lose.
Maybe he needs to understand that perspective on football too. You only win fans and their trust in one way: by winning matches. If you’re in the process of losing your fans’ trust, you can only regain it in one way: win matches.
Acting superior gets you nothing. It only puts you in an even more vulnerable position if things don’t go your way and makes you an even easier target for criticism.
Exactly that has happened.
Now Postecoglou stands here after a directly embarrassing loss to Wolverhampton. Supporters have reason to genuinely wonder if he actually knows what he’s doing at the moment. Because it doesn’t really seem like it, actually.
He seems to have lost himself. The team has followed the same path.
Everything has just gone wrong.
And now I see an end.
It can’t continue like this. It can’t be this heartless, not this hollow.
Postecoglou only has one chance to save his job, and that’s by winning the Europa League. But I’m not even sure that’s enough of a guarantee for him to remain in charge of Tottenham next season.
No. It’s probably over soon, Ange."

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Thanks for this brilliant article

 

[kcspurs]

Even Swedish journalists thinks it's soon over for Ange.

It's translated by AI (because I'm too lazy)

"Soon it will probably be over, Postecoglou
England Blog
Coaches can sometimes maliciously claim that journalists and fans don’t understand football. Sure, if we compare knowledge about running lines in the final third, it would be extremely strange if a professional in their field wasn’t at the forefront there.
The problem?
Football isn’t just about running lines in the final third.
Sometimes, some coaches would probably benefit from understanding the perspective that “everyone else” has on football too. There isn’t just one way to look at things, and every now and then, the solution might actually lie in the simple.
Another thing we on “our side” know: getting into a confrontation with your own fans is rarely a good idea. It never really seems to work.
More often than not, you’re done for.
I have defended Ange Postecoglou tooth and nail. Thought he’s been given shitty conditions by his club, had an injury hell to deal with. Believed that the miserable season would eventually turn around – as long as he gets time.
Time he has been given. Injuries have decreased. Conditions have improved a bit.
But no turnaround has come.
On the contrary. Gradually, everything has just gotten worse and worse.
The Tottenham team he built last year is gone. Everything has collapsed.
And there’s nothing left for Postecoglou to blame anymore.
The identity has gradually disappeared, and somewhere along the way, the players have lost themselves in their coach’s fumbling. There’s just no foundation at all to stand on. No fundamentals, and no security to lean on.
The team is fragile. The players look helpless.
Wolverhampton barely needed to make an effort to score in Sunday’s 4-2 victory. Instead, Spurs kept giving one gift after another.
The defeat to Wolves said a lot: Spurs are lacking a lot. Too much, to be honest.
The warning signs have been there for a long time, but it’s only now that I see an end. That something needs to happen. Because parallel to the sporting disaster on the pitch, Postecoglou has engaged in a dangerous battle off it.
He has, on one hand, clashed with the media and started questioning everyone who questions him. Apparently, you’re not allowed to have opinions about someone who has worked on something for a very long time, just because that person has had their job for a very long time.
Strange logic. Oh well. You do you, Ange.
But above all, he has clashed with his supporters.
Fans sang mockingly that he didn’t “know what he was doing” when he substituted Bergvall for Sarr in the derby against Chelsea a couple of weeks ago. When Sarr shortly thereafter scored (later disallowed by VAR), Ange turned to the fans and put his hand behind his ear.
“What was that you said about me? Ha, did someone say something?”
Ice cold.
Well, Ange, what do you think you’re going to gain from that, really?
I can answer how it will turn out: he won’t win anything. It’s a battle he is certain to lose.
Maybe he needs to understand that perspective on football too. You only win fans and their trust in one way: by winning matches. If you’re in the process of losing your fans’ trust, you can only regain it in one way: win matches.
Acting superior gets you nothing. It only puts you in an even more vulnerable position if things don’t go your way and makes you an even easier target for criticism.
Exactly that has happened.
Now Postecoglou stands here after a directly embarrassing loss to Wolverhampton. Supporters have reason to genuinely wonder if he actually knows what he’s doing at the moment. Because it doesn’t really seem like it, actually.
He seems to have lost himself. The team has followed the same path.
Everything has just gone wrong.
And now I see an end.
It can’t continue like this. It can’t be this heartless, not this hollow.
Postecoglou only has one chance to save his job, and that’s by winning the Europa League. But I’m not even sure that’s enough of a guarantee for him to remain in charge of Tottenham next season.
No. It’s probably over soon, Ange."

Click to shrink...

Translated, I think they are saying there's no amount of seasoning you can apply to Ange's surstromming to convince people they're smelling a Sunday roast

 

[Fattynomates]

what are you on about? contention? are you having a fucking laugh?

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He always wins something in his second season, just a shame that was the "Worst Spurs manager of all time" Trophy!

 

[daveyboy88]

He always wins something in his second season, just a shame that was the "Worst Spurs manager of all time" Trophy!

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hes home and dry on that one. wont see that beaten in my lifetime and most likely ever.

 

[Hampshire Spur]

He always wins something in his second season, just a shame that was the "Worst Spurs manager of all time" Trophy!

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At the moment hes close to winning a P45 2nd season.

 

[The Mercurial No.10]

Depending on results we can still theoretically finish last out of all the London clubs.

That would be a real legacy for him.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Defensive football is anti Spurs and never works see Nuno, Jose and Graham. Fans reject it. We played good football under Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino and that was mostly quite attacking. If the club switch back to a defensive manager we will be back here in 12-18 months looking for the next manager.

Click to shrink...

Lol. I can not believe sensible posters are still floating the utter illogic about 'good and bad football' The idea we have boring managers that won't work because...they play boring is just not reality.

Circumstances dictate how good managers play, the personel they have at their disposal. The Mourinho team that had Duff and Robben and Drogba and Lampard was not BORING, it's been defined as such because they adapted to beat an OP Barcelona. Ironically Jose coined the term parking the bus for a SPURS team. Spurs fans are not driving out managers because the fans are not entertained. The boring Nuno we fired lead his Forest side to a 7 nil victory over a Brighton team that battered us.

People are just completely mugged off by Levy .They don't even know what's wrong. Or How we can improve any more. Levy has made ridiculous sporting decisions, AVB was broken when we employed him. Nuno was simply denied the authority to play the way he wanted. Gibbs-white and Elanga are not mainstays of a defensive coaches team.

This was never about ethos or DNA increasingly it's about competence and the entire football operation at Spurs is mired in a lack of it. Ange, Wells,Raimondo, Munn, Jedinak don't know what they are doing. Employ a coach with functional footballing ability, who understands tactical periodisation (Ange doesn't) and give him a squad that has: Kulusevski, Bergvall, Maddison, Solanke, Moore, Adjay, Son, at his disposal we won't be worrying about the style. I can't stress this enough we have employed clowns. We will end the season 17th this is no longer about style it's about bare minimum COMPETENCE.

 

[Matt1882]

Its not a choice between attacking football and losing over half your games or challenging for top 4 and 1-0 wins with boring football though is it - theres a massive grey area in between which is where we should really be lads.
Everything has to be polar opposites, right and wrong these days!

Click to shrink...

The only thing I found boring about Conteball was the predictable starting 11's every match. No matter how bad someone was, they seemed to play.
But even in his 2nd season, it was better than this clusterfuck of football.
And we were 3rd ffs.

I'm suprised you went back that far to find an example, he sacked unequivocally our best manager of the 21st century in November over far less questionable league form having taken us to a Champions League final 4 months prior.

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We were 14th when Poch was sacked. P12 W3 D5 L4
We were 7th when AVB was sacked. P16 W8 D3 L5

The problem AVB had was those losses included 6-0 away to City and 5-0 at home to Liverpool. And of course, the alarm bell ringer 3-0 home spanking by a very average West Ham team.