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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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The Premier League article from 23/24 shows that 38 points would have kept us from being relegated in something close to 20-21 out of the last 23 seasons.
However, the points distribution this season shows that pretty much 45% of our points (17 points) were gained against the bottom 5 sides, excluding us [depressing to type].
26.3% (10 points) were gained from the bottom 3. That's one of the worst groups of bottom 3 in the PL history. 10 points out of a possible 18.
9 of those points against Everton, West Ham, and Man Utd came from our early season form. It's really worrying how comfortable people who are being vocally 'Ange In' are with how fine the margins are between the season we had and a 20-something point season. It was 0.78 points per game from MW10 to MW38.
He's not at the top yet, more like one or two levels off.
The fact that the vast majority of players and managers don’t win things, is EXACTLY what makes winning so meaningful. In fact, it’s what makes it the most meaningful thing an athlete or coach can do.
Is a league 2 coach winning an FA Vase a better coach than Pochettino who, when he left us, had won nothing?
Would you sack Poch immediately after the CL final and replace him with that coach as he's a proven winner?
Jesus, is he your dad? Good for Ange that it means a lot to him. I'm really glad he can retire happy.
Still don't want him and neither will any other club in Europe's top 5 leagues. A Europa league in isolation will do very little to erase the memory of leading us to our worst points total in 48 years.
They are flattard levels of dim.The Premier League article from 23/24 shows that 38 points would have kept us from being relegated in something close to 20-21 out of the last 23 seasons.
However, the points distribution this season shows that pretty much 45% of our points (17 points) were gained against the bottom 5 sides, excluding us [depressing to type].
26.3% (10 points) were gained from the bottom 3. That's one of the worst groups of bottom 3 in the PL history. 10 points out of a possible 18.
9 of those points against Everton, West Ham, and Man Utd came from our early season form. It's really worrying how comfortable people who are being vocally 'Ange In' are with how fine the margins are between the season we had and a 20-something point season. It was 0.78 points per game from MW10 to MW38.
It's clear as day how we have regressed in the 2 years he's been here. Against good competition rather than farmers, against teams coached by coaches who watch the opposition and adapt, he's been found out.
The promoted teams next season look better/better equipped to stay up next season which worries me.
The Premier League is the top of the pyramid. Spurs may not be, but the league is. It's the hardest league to do well in, especially if you're not City.
When did I say it didn't?
I dint think anyone would realistically say it did.
But managerial competence,like most things in life must be defined by constancy if performance over a duration.
Not complex.
And critically, they tend to follow each other Winning the Europa was great. It was also incoherent with our season. .I don't want another season like it that's for sure. Not a chance.
Its irrelevant to the discussion.
Im very specifically talking about the Europa league..... there are only 2 trophies more prestigious than that to win.... a league trophy in one of the top 5 league or the CL.
Look I'll edit... of course it doesn't mean more but the argument is thay it is not meaningless.
Oh you dont? Literally no one realised.
Eh???
Have you gone insane or something???
What part of what I said was wrong?
And give reasons why they were wrong.
I will counter everything you can come up with, with actual facts.
I could write the retorts first for shits n giggles.
1) He was at the bottom of the pyramid for most of his career. Australia. Greek lower level. Japan. Australia U20's and mens teams. This is fact. He then went to the SPL. Fifa rank the SPL as the 43rd in the world. You should see the shit above it.
2) Who else spends nearly 30 years at the bottom of the pyramid and then goes straight into the PL? Gerrard? He was shit.
3) Name me a single Spurs manager since the 80's that has been allowed to lose so many games and not get sacked.
4) When was the last time the Europa League simultaneously offered Champions League football for the win AND didn't have Champions League teams drop into it in the knock out stages?
You’ve just listed his achievements like you’re his biggest cheerleader!
You’ve just listed his achievements like you’re his biggest cheerleader!
It was relevant to the conversation I was having
So he'll have no issue finding gainful employment at a top club when we sack him then I'm sure? If the Europa was such a magnificent achievement it will surely erase the top club's memories of him guiding us to a 17th placed finish when he had more than one competition on his plate at a time?
It will tell everything about just how important a cup win it was by what standard of job he gets next, is all I'm saying. If he ends up out in Greece it won't surprise me.
The Cup win is a wonderful achievement but was never on the cards in performance. Those performances are there to see over the last 2 seasons in the stats. It's depressing how much faith people want to put into the belief that - somehow - next season will magically turn around. It isn't like the cup win will give us a nudge over the line, or like next season has no europe to help us out. The CL matches are absolutely not going to involve rotation any more than the EL was (less, if anything) and so we're likely to have a worse season that the one just gone.
As you say, the promoted teams both finished on 100 points, and are recently relegated PL teams - they aren't going to be anywhere near as bad as the current lot.
How anyone has the brass neck to have criticised the club for ambition and not taking football seriously and still want more of the last 2 years of league form, I don't know. £400m too, in players!
In the 21st Century, these are the coaches who have won it.
Fatih Terim (No, me either)
Houllier (Liverpool)
Bert Van Marwijk (No, me either)
Mourinho (twice)
Benitez (twice)
Valery GAzzaev (nope)
Ramos (twice lolz)
Advocaat
Lucescu (nope)
Sanchez Flores - the one who got sacked by Watford
AVB (lolz)
Simeone (twice)
Sarri
Loetegui
Emery (4 times)
Glasner
Mendilibar (nope, no idea)
Gasperini
Mateyboy
There's some names in there. Mourinho, Benitez, Simeone, Sarri. But most of them are nobodies really, or never did much/anything else.
From that list, we have actually hired Ramos, Mourinho and AVB and sacked all of them. Ange still TBD.
Pep never won it. Klopp never won it. Fergie never won it. Wenger never won it. Ancelotti never won it.
Do you think they didn't win it because they weren't good enough? Or because they're not as good as Ange?
Far too much belief that winning the Europa league transforms everything. It's a monkey off our back. It's just about a way to stave off the anti-spurs brigade who bang on about our lack of trophies.
The board will act the same. We will still be stingey in the transfer market. We will need a coach to get more than the sum of the squads parts out of them to do anything next season. Ange aint that man.
In the seasons after the 1999 and 2008 League cup wins we were rubbish. Those cup wins did nothing to propel us to better performances.
Dude, what are you on about . The conversation is about whether or not it is meaningless, not whether Ange is a good coach or better than Klopp.
The guy won a more major trophy. than 95% of managers ever will in their entire career. It's an achievement for him and no amount of sour grapes about Spurs' 17th place finish changes that.