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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
What I recall from those first 10 games is the opposition carving our team up, walking through the defence, and Vicario making a series of astonishing point blank saves, and people on here stating we'd got a better keeper than Raya.

The reality though is he nor could any other goalkeeper maintain that level, and when Vicario's form slid so did the entire team.

I recall peaking through my fingers thinking how the fuck did he save that?

Unfortunately the writing was on the wall, I was hoping Vicario could keep being Superman, but the reality is, no goalkeeper can keep saving point blank shots when the defence have been caught out on the halfway line with one simple pass creating a breach.

Fortunately Vicario's golden period lasted long enough to get the team a decent finishing position in the league.
I also remember Vicario making a series of important saves, but there was more to it than that. The metrics those first ten games strongly supported that Spurs were consistently in good positions to outscore the opposition and win games. What the defence was giving up at one end was counterbalanced (and then some) by what was being created at the other,

That flipped when Romero, VDV and Udogie all went down at once, which is both understandable but also indicative of Postecoglou’s unwillingness to adapt. What there’s no question over was the importance of that first choice defence. As has been noted numerous times, when all 5 played together Ange maintained a top 5-ish record across both seasons. But that’s obviously by the by because the reality is that the record was considerably worse when others had to step in and play.
 
The problem with debate is that it requires both parties to approach the process in good faith. On this forum, there tends to be no respectful engagement, there are personal insults, there is no willingness to acknowledge the validity of some points made by the other side. All too often, we end up with endless posts saying the same bloody thing over and over again. Page after page after endless page.
Recently, I've begun to slip into the same habit. That stops now..
 
Nah it's a completely stupid point to make because you're essentially cherry picking stats to suit an argument.

Low IQ crap.

Aren't you one of the people who try to ignore the last 10 games or so because "he was throwing the league to focus on the Europa"?

Sarcastic Charlie And The Chocolate Factory GIF
 
That's not the same thing though is it - there are actual methods in data science (Winsorization, Trimmed Mean, Regression to the Mean) to prevent over-weighting a series due to a small number of anomalies.
Your comparison is not the same, because if you take away the last 10 games of last season, we had 34 from 28 - making 1.21 ppg, or 46pts over a full season, ergo 14th position ignoring causality.

So “if you take away the first 10 games of the season we would have finished mid table” is pretty much exactly the same outcome as “if you take away the last 10 games of the season we would have finished mid table”
You’re talking about last season - my comment and the post I was replying to were both referencing season one. And specifically the nonsensical and oft repeated idea that ‘if you were to just discount those first 10 games…’ as if that somehow dismisses the team finishing 5th.

Because if you were to discount those first 5 games, it’s true, the team wouldn’t have finished 5th based on the rest of the season. But the problem with that is if you can just pick and choose whatever fantasy suits your argument, then how about we discount the last 10 games instead? Like hey, are you guys aware that if not for those last ten games, we would have finished 4th and in the Champions League? Wow! Both are nonsense arguments is the point.

That’s not glossing over last season by the way - it’s just not part of the same discussion because I don’t think anyone disputes that the league form was horrific, and as you alluded to, taking away ten games from the start, middle or end isn’t going to change that.
 
Aren't you one of the people who try to ignore the last 10 games or so because "he was throwing the league to focus on the Europa"?

Sarcastic Charlie And The Chocolate Factory GIF

If you want to make stuff up, go ahead :mourthumb:

The ignore the first 10 games just reminds me of when you said Ange's first season was "shit" and you tried your best to say Frank wasa better coach than Ange, I mean at some point we genuinely have to do better:D
 
Ange was shit. I'd probably rather have Frank back simply because he'd fail just as spectacularly as Ange but wouldn't spend all his time telling me how great he was or that he was purposefully sacking off the relegation fixtures so he could win the championship next season.

Listening to someone arrogantly talk themselves up is annoying if the have a CV like Mourinho, it's embarrassing in the extreme if the highlights on your CV are Celtic, the J league and the Brisbane Roar.
 
Ange was shit. I'd probably rather have Frank back simply because he'd fail just as spectacularly as Ange but wouldn't spend all his time telling me how great he was or that he was purposefully sacking off the relegation fixtures so he could win the championship next season.

Listening to someone arrogantly talk themselves up is annoying if the have a CV like Mourinho, it's embarrassing in the extreme if the highlights on your CV are Celtic, the J league and the Brisbane Roar.

And taking Spurs to their first major in 41 years, bet you were absolutely cringing on the night of May 21st and at the scenes of the trophy parade hey :angecup:
 
And taking Spurs to their first major in 41 years, bet you were absolutely cringing on the night of May 21st and at the scenes of the trophy parade hey :angecup:

You’d have to have either a chronic aversion to success or an irrational hatred of Greek-Australians to discount such a splendid achievement, one that comes around but once a generation.

I’m convinced that Woolwich could be on the verge of their 10th consecutive treble and some of these guys would still be creaming their pants at the prospect of eking out a 4th place finish in the league.

:mourshock:
 
Ange was shit. I'd probably rather have Frank back simply because he'd fail just as spectacularly as Ange but wouldn't spend all his time telling me how great he was or that he was purposefully sacking off the relegation fixtures so he could win the championship next season.

Listening to someone arrogantly talk themselves up is annoying if the have a CV like Mourinho, it's embarrassing in the extreme if the highlights on your CV are Celtic, the J league and the Brisbane Roar.

At last. We have it..

Its the fact that this Fat Cunt from some football backwater with a shit CV, got us up from 8 th to fifth, narrowly missing top 4 and Champions League in hisFIRST season in our glorious Premier League WITHOUT Kane ( worth at least 12 point per season on his own).

But The Fat Cunt didn't stop there.

He navigated the ONLY path left to the Club's stated objective of Champions League qualification, and won us our ONLY trophy ion decades.

This Fat Cunt with nothing but 5 trophies in Scotland, one in the J -League and Four in Australia, was rightly sacked and replaced by a European with Premier League experience that had won nothing, ever and sent the club in a relegation fight.

Did I get it right?
 
Listening to someone arrogantly talk themselves up is annoying if the have a CV like Mourinho, it's embarrassing in the extreme if the highlights on your CV are Celtic, the J league and the Brisbane Roar.

So who's CV is better?

Di Zerbi - 1 x Ukrainian cup
Iraola - 1 x Cyrus cup
Poch - 1 x French league, and 2 x domestic cup (Yes, with Messi, Mbappe, Neymar - well done Poch).
Ange - 1 x Europa Leage, Scottish League x 2, Scottish League Cup x 2, Scottish Cup x 1, 5 x Aussie League Champion, 1 x J-League, 5 x domestic Aussie trophies, AFC Asia Cup, 8 x youth club championships
 
“Brilliant things” bwahahahaha.

This guy definitely grew up ‘winning’ a shit ton of participation trophies.

:angecup:

It’s so funny that you think winning a tier 2 trophy is more brilliant than reaching CL finals or fighting for league titles.

Under Poch we battled the elite. We beat city and Madrid in Europe, not Bodo and AZ Alkmaar. Your logic is equivalent to being too shit for the A team at school, starring at the B team and acting like you’re more of a “winner” than the A players who didn’t win a league.

It’s pathetic mate.
 
So who's CV is better?

Di Zerbi - 1 x Ukrainian cup
Iraola - 1 x Cyrus cup
Poch - 1 x French league, and 2 x domestic cup (Yes, with Messi, Mbappe, Neymar - well done Poch).
Ange - 1 x Europa Leage, Scottish League x 2, Scottish League Cup x 2, Scottish Cup x 1, 5 x Aussie League Champion, 1 x J-League, 5 x domestic Aussie trophies, AFC Asia Cup, 8 x youth club championships

Poch, because he managed at the elite level of Europe. Hence why he’s been hired by PSG and Chelsea and Ange has been hired by Forest & now can’t get a job.

Amazingly the elite club don’t think like you lot. They don’t think trophies in Japan or Australia mean shit all, and they aren’t that enamoured by the Europa league either.

Ange’s CV at the elite European level is a load of dogshit on a page. Poch having a CL final alone on his makes it stand out more to the top level of Europe, let alone years spent having Spurs compete at the top of the premier league.
 
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It’s so funny that you think winning a tier 2 trophy is more brilliant than reaching CL finals or fighting for league titles.

Under Poch we battled the elite. We beat city and Madrid in Europe, not Bodo and AZ Alkmaar. Your logic is equivalent to being too shit for the A team at school, starring at the B team and acting like you’re more of a “winner” than the A players who didn’t win a league.

It’s pathetic mate.
You very conveniently forget Kane and prime Son.
 
If you want to make stuff up, go ahead :mourthumb:

The ignore the first 10 games just reminds me of when you said Ange's first season was "shit" and you tried your best to say Frank wasa better coach than Ange, I mean at some point we genuinely have to do better:D

Doubling on the irony of "If you want to make stuff up" then immediately making stuff up

:mourshock:
 
I also remember Vicario making a series of important saves, but there was more to it than that. The metrics those first ten games strongly supported that Spurs were consistently in good positions to outscore the opposition and win games. What the defence was giving up at one end was counterbalanced (and then some) by what was being created at the other,

That flipped when Romero, VDV and Udogie all went down at once, which is both understandable but also indicative of Postecoglou’s unwillingness to adapt. What there’s no question over was the importance of that first choice defence. As has been noted numerous times, when all 5 played together Ange maintained a top 5-ish record across both seasons. But that’s obviously by the by because the reality is that the record was considerably worse when others had to step in and play.

My point is even with our best CBs in place, teams still carved us open and Vicario saved us with that series of outstanding point blank saves during the first 10 matches. That meant we outscored the opposition and won matches. It was akin to saving a couple of penalties per match, the opposing attackers were absolutely clean through on goal.
 
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So who's CV is better?

Di Zerbi - 1 x Ukrainian cup
Iraola - 1 x Cyrus cup
Poch - 1 x French league, and 2 x domestic cup (Yes, with Messi, Mbappe, Neymar - well done Poch).
Ange - 1 x Europa Leage, Scottish League x 2, Scottish League Cup x 2, Scottish Cup x 1, 5 x Aussie League Champion, 1 x J-League, 5 x domestic Aussie trophies, AFC Asia Cup, 8 x youth club championships

If you're purely looking at counting cups no matter how shit they are why not chuck Poch's Audi Cup win on there? Standard of opposition was probably better than anything Ange faced!

I notice you don't include how any of them did in the league in your assessment of their CV. You know the bread and butter of their jobs, the thing that supporters have to suffer through week in and week out.

I'd still comfortably pick any of the other three over Ange as they've all shown themselves to be better managers.
 
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